Is "hard use" the new "tactical"?

[Ankerson]

My Dear Friends,

I too have seen the trend among manufacturers to produce heavier, more robust knife designs, and in many cases in doing so they manage to negate the positive characteristics of handling, weight and balance that made the original version of the knife so desirable to begin with.

--------
Hannibal

Some of my hard use folders are the best balanced, most comfortable knives that I own...

I do have pretty big hands so that matters.

[Ed Schempp]

I've carried a knife for over fifty years and never had an edged weapons encounter. I would have a hard time calling one of my pieces "tactical", although that is an aspect of every knife. I call a "heavy duty" folder hard use. I have on the other hand broke many knives, as the result of abuse or extremely hard use. Many times I have sacrificed a blade to save time and additional traveling for the proper tool. Some steels are not satisfactory for this type of use or abuse. Some knife designs are not appropriate for this type of work.

Sal asked me to design as strong of folder that I could. I used an ancient geometry on the blade for strength that I have not seen in folder design. I designed a sliding plate lock that was arguably in violation of another patent. This knife has been and is in refinement and hopefully bring the strongest and lightest knife to this "hard-use" market.

Spyderco has a wide line of knives, many that fit a specialized use. The Tuff will be in the heavy duty category....Take care...Ed

[Ankerson]

I've carried a knife for over fifty years and never had an edged weapons encounter. I would have a hard time calling one of my pieces "tactical", although that is an aspect of every knife. I call a "heavy duty" folder hard use. I have on the other hand broke many knives, as the result of abuse or extremely hard use. Many times I have sacrificed a blade to save time and additional traveling for the proper tool. Some steels are not satisfactory for this type of use or abuse. Some knife designs are not appropriate for this type of work.

Sal asked me to design as strong of folder that I could. I used an ancient geometry on the blade for strength that I have not seen in folder design. I designed a sliding plate lock that was arguably in violation of another patent. This knife has been and is in refinement and hopefully bring the strongest and lightest knife to this "hard-use" market.

Spyderco has a wide line of knives, many that fit a specialized use. The Tuff will be in the heavy duty category....Take care...Ed

Oh yeah, I can't wait to see that one. :D :cool: :eek: :spyder: :)

[The General]

There was talk about this Tuff folder several years ago at the Leeds meet up in 2006 IIRC.

Still I see nothing on the table...

Course, I have stated I do not need a silly Tuff folder but I would be interested in the Spyderco take on such a knife as I think, I hope it would be as strong and abuse capable as the most knuckle dragging designs. Yet still cut like a Spyderco ought to.

Very interested indeed. Not saying I would buy one, but I might. :D

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friend,

Some of my hard use folders are the best balanced, most comfortable knives that I own...

Precisely. Some. Not all. :D

Admittedly the industry overall is making strides in the direction of improving in these regards, but I wonder when we will exceed the point of diminishing returns...

--------
Hannibal

[Ankerson]

My Dear Friend,



Precisely. Some. Not all. :D

Admittedly the industry overall is making strides in the direction of improving in these regards, but I wonder when we will exceed the point of diminishing returns...

--------
Hannibal

Some are better than others for sure. :)

I tend to like beefier handles that are contoured nicely to fit my hand. :D

My Custom Demko is by far the best, but then it's a custom, 2nd is my Strider SmF CC.

Both are balanced so well that I don't even feel the weight and they feel a lot lighter than they really are in hand.

They feel like air in hand. :)

[JNewell]

I bet we're all anxious to see that. Your previous designs have been both well done and innovative, so this will be something to look forward to - thanks!

I've carried a knife for over fifty years and never had an edged weapons encounter. I would have a hard time calling one of my pieces "tactical", although that is an aspect of every knife. I call a "heavy duty" folder hard use. I have on the other hand broke many knives, as the result of abuse or extremely hard use. Many times I have sacrificed a blade to save time and additional traveling for the proper tool. Some steels are not satisfactory for this type of use or abuse. Some knife designs are not appropriate for this type of work.

Sal asked me to design as strong of folder that I could. I used an ancient geometry on the blade for strength that I have not seen in folder design. I designed a sliding plate lock that was arguably in violation of another patent. This knife has been and is in refinement and hopefully bring the strongest and lightest knife to this "hard-use" market.

Spyderco has a wide line of knives, many that fit a specialized use. The Tuff will be in the heavy duty category....Take care...Ed

[indie_dave]

Yes.

1. It is an amorphous term of almost unlimited lexical plasticity.

2. It fuels enough meaningless and inconclusive internet traffic that it probably represents a measurable diversion of human time and natural energy resources.

i lol'd

you guys are the bestest :D

[Blerv]

Start with the purpose, then seek the tool.

With steels you can usually peg a few performance categories. Getting one is easy, two is difficult, if you *can* attain all categories the flaw is price. It's going to be through the roof.

Knives like the Manix2 for example meet quite a few categories for many people. It's as tough as I could ever need (and probably 99% of the population). Still, it's not unbreakable but for a $65 production folder that doesn't weigh 9 ounces it's a tough competitor. I would still trade it for a Mora or any fixed blade for rugged use but those don't fold-up in blue jeans.

There are people who can kill me with a butter knife and others that can build a fort with a SAK better than I could with a nail gun. The ultimate flaw of mankind is typically a lack of training or knowledge.

Still, we often strive to replace this with performance tools alone because it's FAR easier to pull out a credit card than learn a trade or skill. Look at 9/10 white collar folks driving Dodge Viper's at your local Track Days. Then count how many crash them into walls or blow up their engines.

Last time I was out at the track 2/2 Vipers went home on flatbeds. Yay for nitrous and snap-throttle over-steer. The arrogance made it poetic irony.

The term "hard use" is subjective to the person and task. Since more than one company makes knives (and those make multiple models) we should seek personalized "efficiency" within our requirements.

[sal]

Hi Ed, Wayne,

I'm pleased to say that we nmow have a maker for the "Tuff". The steel is on it's way (CPM-3V), the design is complete, and we're finally in motion.

sal

[Ankerson]

I'm pleased to say that we nmow have a maker for the "Tuff". The steel is on it's way (CPM-3V), the design is complete, and we're finally in motion.

sal

Oh I am getting excited just hearing about it. :D

Can't wait until that one comes out. :spyder:

Any details, Teaser photos. :D

[LorenzoL]

Yeah, pics!

[Ankerson]

Yeah, pics!

Yeah you know like I always say. :D

Picts or it didn't happen. :D :spyder:

[NoFair]

Hi Ed, Wayne,

I'm pleased to say that we nmow have a maker for the "Tuff". The steel is on it's way (CPM-3V), the design is complete, and we're finally in motion.

sal

Hi Sal

Does it still look a bit like it did in Leeds? We miss you guys in the UK

Sverre

[Blerv]

Hi Ed, Wayne,

I'm pleased to say that we nmow have a maker for the "Tuff". The steel is on it's way (CPM-3V), the design is complete, and we're finally in motion.

sal

Can't wait to see it =).

I stumbled upon this... :eek:

http://www.windsorsteel.com/grades/CPM-3V.htm

CPM-3V material is designed to provide maximum resistance to breakage and chipping in a highly wear-resistance material. CPM-3V material offers impact toughness greater than A-2, D-2, Cru-Wear or CPM-M4 material, approaching the levels of S-7 and other shock resistance material, while providing excellent wear resistance, high hardness and thermal stability for coatings. CPM-3V is intended to be used at HRC 58/60; CPM-3V can replace high alloy tool steels in wear applications where chronic tool breakage and chipping problems are encountered.

and...

1. Impact Toughness

· The CPM microstructure gives CPM-3V material its high impact toughness which approaches that of the shock-resistance tool steels.

2. Wear Resistance

· The vanadium content imparts CPM-3V material with excellent wear resistance; similar to that of M2 high speed steel.

[sal]

Hi Sal

Does it still look a bit like it did in Leeds? We miss you guys in the UK

Sverre

Hi Sverre,

Same basic shape. We'll use a Titanium RIL.

sal

[LorenzoL]

With or without the upcoming steel lockbar face insert a la KW Millie?

[The General]

Hi Ed, Wayne,

I'm pleased to say that we nmow have a maker for the "Tuff". The steel is on it's way (CPM-3V), the design is complete, and we're finally in motion.

sal

:D

Post in Sal's casual bombshell thread I think! :eek: :cool:

[NoFair]

Hi Sverre,

Same basic shape. We'll use a Titanium RIL.

sal

Sounds nice Sal and Ed. Might be too heavy use for a folder for me though I have some fixed :spyder: s and Norwegian laws are pretty tolerant when it comes to what we can carry while outdoors :D

See you changed lock since Leeds

[The General]

Nice to see CPM 3V getting accepted in a folder btw Sal!

To put things in perspective, a number of years ago I wanted to challenge what could be done with steel. So I designed a knife and called it the Gladius. I had it made in CPM 10V with a softer heat treat by Paul Bos. The knife is running Rc 56-57.

I have used this knife hard, its a 10 inch thick spined spearpoint with a convex edge at 20 degree's per side. It cuts really well and while there are better blades for hard use, this holds its edge incredibly well.

It has survived impacts with stones, splitting through tough wood and knots and the worst I can say is the edge rolled *slightly* and was steeled right back.

This is a tough blade with amazing edge holding.

Its CPM 10V, it ought to break in half if you dropped it. Well, that's what some people say...

I proved my concept by designing a blade to compliment the weakness inherent in the steel. I took a high wear resistance steel and made it work in a hard use large fixed blade. This was down to edge design, heat treat and other factors. It works though, works really well. Cuts very well.

Now, if I took my design and made it with CPM 3V... well.. that would be a TANK. :D