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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:06 pm
by 224477
Wow, Sal personally took care! Thats why I prefer buying his knives, because I know that spyderco stands behind their products and listens to customers. I too had some issues but the service I got was always top notch! :cool:
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:37 pm
by dialex
If it wasn't for you guys to point out the imperfections of the knife, I would still stare at the pictures wondering what's wrong (I guess I'm superficial, but that's me) :o
As always, Mr. Glesser dealt with this situation in a most elegant manner - but hey, the man's got class!
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:49 pm
by ssmtbracer
Nice Sal I wish I could say things like to some of my customers however I am not the owner of the store I work at.
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:11 pm
by FIMS
FIMS wrote:
However, Im pretty sure a positive solution will come out by the end of the week.
Did my crystal ball lie???
Told you it would be fixed.
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:22 pm
by 2cha
sal wrote:
We "dared" to make a ZDP-189 knife with Carbon fiber scales. Not too many out there doing that. And we do it so that we can share this with a small group of customers that appreciate our effort. We even make small quantities.....at an affordable price for the piece. We bring back these models for you. Would you measure the ZDP and Carbon fiber as "quality" materials?
Would you measure a small run of "exotic" folders as a "quality" effort on our part?
(Perhaps MarkG is correct in that "Sprints" are not worth the effort?)
sal
They're worth it!!! They're worth it!!! They're worth it!!!! Innovation, risk taking, design like no other production house in the world, pushing the envelope--that's why I've signed onto spyderco!!!!
Please keep up the awesome work!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:23 pm
by flipe8
sal wrote:
Frankly Huugh,
I'm surprised tht you would puchase a Spyderco knife. I have been reading your posts for many years. In my mind, I have you classified a certain way. Perhaps I am wrong, and if so, you have my apolgy.
I'm happy you made mention of Huugh's posts over the years, Sal, as you're definitely no the only one who has noticed. Generally, when someone continues to have bad experiences with a given product, they eventually move on to something that pleases them. Perhaps Huugh should do himself a favour and follow his own words.
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:37 pm
by SmoothOne25
sal wrote:FYI, I have never found a perfect knife. Not ever. Not production, not custom, and I've gone through thousands.
WHAT THE **** SAL? I AM FURIOUS WITH YOU! HOW DARE YOU! :mad:
i have several "perfect" knives! :mad: im not sure what they are called or who made them or where they were made. there's like a round hole or something in the blade. its the damnset thing.... :confused:
maybe some day i will find out who made these
marvels BUT DONT YOU DARE SAY NO ONE MAKES PERFECT KNIVES!
oh and keep making sprints! its "worth it" to me
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:08 pm
by MCM
Most get it. Some don't.
Please keep looking past the idiots and producing your product's as you see fit.
Sprints are what keep me involved!
They are worth it.
Read my posts on this subject. I get it! I get it!
Nothing is perfect. But for the $$$ and limited quantities, nothing out there even comes close.
How you keep your cool (this same poster has been doing this on another forum for years) And don't ban more folks here is amazing.
No ego involved. Just the sound business model of giving folks what they want. Almost non existent today.
Please continue to look past the cry babies and dunce's and continue to focus on the other 99% of us.
Thanks again.
MCM
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:42 pm
by Stephen
MCM wrote:Most get it. Some don't.
Please keep looking past the idiots and producing your product's as you see fit.
Sprints are what keep me involved!
They are worth it.
Read my posts on this subject. I get it! I get it!
Nothing is perfect. But for the $$$ and limited quantities, nothing out there even comes close.
How you keep your cool (this same poster has been doing this on another forum for years) And don't ban more folks here is amazing.
No ego involved. Just the sound business model of giving folks what they want. Almost non existent today.
Please continue to look past the cry babies and dunce's and continue to focus on the other 99% of us.
Thanks again.
MCM
I couldnt have said it better myself, 100% agreed! Thanks for being such an awesome guy sal!
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:48 pm
by jabba359
Hmmmm.... Maybe I should start a thread entitled: Sal - I invite you to send me prototypes of upcoming models so I can test them out... :D
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:00 am
by nozh2002
sal wrote:Hi Huugh,
Please contact Charlynne and we'll arange to pick up your knife. We will need to know where you purchased the knife, and how much you paid. I will let Charlynne know. (If you purchased the knife in your country through our distributor in you country, you would need only to contact them and they would take care of you).
Frankly Huugh,
I'm surprised tht you would puchase a Spyderco knife. I have been reading your posts for many years. In my mind, I have you classified a certain way. Perhaps I am wrong, and if so, you have my apolgy.
Do you think that the design is a quality design? We even refined the design to improve some areas (more tooling). Michael Walker is an experienced designer and we've had success with his designs. Perhaps design is not in your mind as "quality"?
We "dared" to make a ZDP-189 knife with Carbon fiber scales. Not too many out there doing that. And we do it so that we can share this with a small group of customers that appreciate our effort. We even make small quantities.....at an affordable price for the piece. We bring back these models for you. Would you measure the ZDP and Carbon fiber as "quality" materials?
Would you measure a small run of "exotic" folders as a "quality" effort on our part?
(Perhaps MarkG is correct in that "Sprints" are not worth the effort?)
You bought your knife and it wasn't perfect. That's probably true. There's a lot of hand work in these models and short runs do not permit the craftsmen to gain experience. And you found an imperfection! :eek: Suddenly it is not a "quality" knife and Spyderco has poor "quality" and poor customer service.....and this is your proof that a competitor is better? So why all the drama? Send the knife back where you bought it and get your money back, and buy the competitor's knife.
Although we always try, we know we can't please everyone.
FYI, I have never found a perfect knife. Not ever. Not production, not custom, and I've gone through thousands. I guess the closest was a fairly expensive Jess Horn folder, but I even found that it wasn't perfect.
We will collect your knife from you and we will try to please you. It is our way.
Though, based on your previous comments, I think it will be difficult to please you.....but we'll try.
In my opinion, I think that you would be happier with Custom made ZDP-189 Carbon fiber knives. You will probably have to pay a bit more for them, but then you will get the perfection you desire.
sal
...What I do not understand from this replay - some kind of grind which did not came at the center of the blade but about 30% from left...
Does Spyderco consider it as OK or not?
Thanks, Vassili.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:11 am
by s11ews
it comes down to this boys and girls,
quality control checks are done to make sure that knives that go though are of good quality and spydercos are one of the best! yeah if you hunt around you may find a tiny flaw but for the money they are one of the best brands going,
this knife looks like it went through quality control by mistake, yeah it has some bad faults but like sal said, ltd production and not much practise, what it boils down to is not the fact that the mistake has been made at quality control (WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES!) but what spyderco are going to do, and knowing them they will always see that the customer is happy!
without giving him to much of an ego boost..............
sal, you are the man and we love you to bits! :)
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:07 am
by A.P.F.
nozh2002 wrote:...What I do not understand from this replay - some kind of grind which did not came at the center of the blade but about 30% from left...
Does Spyderco consider it as OK or not?
Thanks, Vassili.
Oh no, not another one! :rolleyes:
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:20 am
by Blerv
Sal's already paying shipping and buying the knife off him. You want to send him to his room w/o dessert?
I'm outa this thread. Last troll to leave has to clean up.
/q
...you have been disconnected...
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:34 am
by chuck_roxas45
I just got bitten by the spyder and I just bought my first two. the first is an all black millie which i ordered by mail and the second is an endura that i also ordered by mail. The prices i paid for these knives are a somewhat substantial here in the philippines but i have no complaints. I'm just happy to have these nice knives can be available to me. both came with off center blades but i just did what I could to adjust them and I am extremely happy with them. maybe knife people abroad are spoiled by the knife companies but i would have been ecstatic with that walker. and BTW, that Sal is such a nice guy is icing on the cake for me.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:33 am
by huugh
sal wrote:Hi Huugh,
Please contact Charlynne and we'll arange to pick up your knife. We will need to know where you purchased the knife, and how much you paid. I will let Charlynne know. (If you purchased the knife in your country through our distributor in you country, you would need only to contact them and they would take care of you).
Frankly Huugh,
I'm surprised tht you would puchase a Spyderco knife. I have been reading your posts for many years. In my mind, I have you classified a certain way. Perhaps I am wrong, and if so, you have my apolgy.
Do you think that the design is a quality design? We even refined the design to improve some areas (more tooling). Michael Walker is an experienced designer and we've had success with his designs. Perhaps design is not in your mind as "quality"?
We "dared" to make a ZDP-189 knife with Carbon fiber scales. Not too many out there doing that. And we do it so that we can share this with a small group of customers that appreciate our effort. We even make small quantities.....at an affordable price for the piece. We bring back these models for you. Would you measure the ZDP and Carbon fiber as "quality" materials?
Would you measure a small run of "exotic" folders as a "quality" effort on our part?
(Perhaps MarkG is correct in that "Sprints" are not worth the effort?)
You bought your knife and it wasn't perfect. That's probably true. There's a lot of hand work in these models and short runs do not permit the craftsmen to gain experience. And you found an imperfection! :eek: Suddenly it is not a "quality" knife and Spyderco has poor "quality" and poor customer service.....and this is your proof that a competitor is better? So why all the drama? Send the knife back where you bought it and get your money back, and buy the competitor's knife.
Although we always try, we know we can't please everyone.
FYI, I have never found a perfect knife. Not ever. Not production, not custom, and I've gone through thousands. I guess the closest was a fairly expensive Jess Horn folder, but I even found that it wasn't perfect.
We will collect your knife from you and we will try to please you. It is our way.
Though, based on your previous comments, I think it will be difficult to please you.....but we'll try.
In my opinion, I think that you would be happier with Custom made ZDP-189 Carbon fiber knives. You will probably have to pay a bit more for them, but then you will get the perfection you desire.
sal
Dear Sal,
feel free to "classify me" as you please, but let me respond.
I bought the knife with the prospect that "Spyderco warrants that all of our products are free from defects in material and workmanship."
I do not think I am calling for unreal
perfection if I think this knife is not "free from defects in workmanship", and I do not think it is only my isolated view.
With your words, "Suddenly, the Spyderco has poor quality", when this is considered not an unfortunate mistake but a normal thing within QC specifications. That is also "all the drama" involved.
FYI the "competitor's" approach was all that was needed to "please me".
I will contact Charlynne.
Thanks.
some common mistakes and more
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:16 am
by bh49
There are no QC specifications. There are engineering specifications, which became manufacturing specification later in process. QC job is verify that product within specifications.
Any Quality system can fail. In most of the classes I took within last 20 years Toyota's quality system was a model, recently we were able to see failure (IMHO it is blown out of proportion, but still failure). This is just one of examples.
Customer can be not satisfied with product if product defective or do not correspond his or hers expectations. huugh has two complains:grind and lock. Considering what I saw on the pictures I cannot imagine any been defective. Knife will cut and blade will hold in locking position. To tell the truth I never examined my knives for symmetry of the grind before this thread on BF. Now I know, that my EDC, which I was using every day for more than three years has the same condition. It never bothered me before, will not do in future. Lock engagement is little different, potentially it can wear out sooner. Still it is not making this knife defective at least in my opinion. This is gents knife and not supposed see the same use as Manix, with normal use the lock should last for long time. So in this case, it seems to me we have a customer, who's expectations are not met. This raising a question, why huugh still buying Spyderco, I can remember him been not satisfied with discoloration on his Milly or Manix about four years ago and few more time between now and then. Also I would love to know who is Spyderco competitor, who can make the knife with ZDP-189 blade, CF handle in Seki city, sell it for little over $100 and every knife would be perfect or at least satisfy huugh.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:45 am
by 2cha
huugh wrote:Dear Sal,
I bought the knife with the prospect that "Spyderco warrants that all of our products are free from defects in material and workmanship."
I do not think I am calling for unreal perfection if I think this knife is not "free from defects in workmanship", and I do not think it is only my isolated view.
Huugh,
The expression "free from defects in materials and workmanship" is a legal term of art that limits warranty protection to the consumer should the product fail to work, not fail to please. Basically, in laymans' terms, the expression means that if the product fails because a poor batch of steel was used, the heat treat was bad, the knife fell apart because the screws were too weak,... etc., etc., the manufacturer will repair, replace or refund. We just saw a good example of Spyderco's follow through with that warranty with the Bushcraft knives and the ZDP Muleteams. The expression doesn't mean "perfect."
As an additional note: I would not be happy with the grinds either, and said as much in an earlier post. I was willing to express solidarity with you. But, given your newly revealed (to me) history of your complaints, and failure on your part to take care of your needs by finding a dealer (and perhaps paying more to that dealer!) that will check over your orders personally--
I feel like you took advantage of my sympathies.
I don't like feeling manipulated. :mad:
I retract my offer to give you a dollar. :p
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:41 am
by Donut
I would actually be happy with a blade centered to the knife and a lock with integrity. If I had the funds available in my paypal, I would offer to buy it from you for how much a reasonable seller is selling it for.
It looks like a very useable knife, more useful than if the blade was centered to itself and if the lock was at 40% like you wish. Sometimes it is not about a pretty knife as it is about a knife that will really perform well and safe.
Shiftiness of where the lock lands seems like an adjustable thing. Is the pivot screw loose?
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:07 am
by Joshua J.
The blade grind appears to be a batch issue, not much anyone can do about it.
Bad grind? Maybe. The blade is .09375" thick (dang it, now I want one), very thin compared to your average blade. On a thicker knife It probably wouldn't be so noticeable.
With that in mind, I've seen worse, (not Spyderco) and was not happy with those either.
I usually grind them flat on one side to get the edge as close to center as possible without losing blade width.
Honestly the lock is more concerning. All three of MCM's examples lock up perfect. That's what I've come to expect from a Spyderco made Liner Lock.