Spyderco Bushcraft Knife

[The Deacon]

OK - interesting point of view. I can't tell you which way is right or wrong, doesn't really matter since we both now know what we're talking about :)

FWIW, I'd tend to agree with your interpretation Ted, based on existing models by any number of manufacturers identified as "drop points". They all seem to have the point only slightly "dropped" below where it would be if the top of the spine were a straight line. The Beretta / Bob Loveless Drop Point, and the :spyder: FB2 Moran Drop Point, are classic examples of the drop point blade. It's somewhat counter-intuitive to be sure, but it does seem to be the way the term is used by manufacturers and custom makers.

[Andy_L]

well

It seems sensible to me that drop point would mean the spine dropping down to the point as a clip point is where there is a clip taken out of the blade from the spine side. Also I've never come across a single reference to a typical scandi knife being called a drop point (then again wharncliffe blades don't either)

taken from Joe Talmadge blade Geometry
[quot]- The Drop Point
Another great all-around format, this pattern is used on many knives but is most popular on hunters. The tip is lowered (dropped) via a convex arc from the spine. This lowers the point for great controllability. The point retains great strength. Most drop point patterns also retain plenty of belly. [/quote]

[Ted]

well

It seems sensible to me that drop point would mean the spine dropping down to the point as a clip point is where there is a clip taken out of the blade from the spine side. Also I've never come across a single reference to a typical scandi knife being called a drop point (then again wharncliffe blades don't either)

taken from Joe Talmadge blade Geometry
[quot]- The Drop Point
Another great all-around format, this pattern is used on many knives but is most popular on hunters. The tip is lowered (dropped) via a convex arc from the spine. This lowers the point for great controllability. The point retains great strength. Most drop point patterns also retain plenty of belly.

[/QUOTE]

Interesting points :) - I'll start another thread on this topic (in the off-topic section), so that we can keep this thread focussed on the bushcraft knife.

[Manix Guy 2]

This knife size is a favorite of mine , have two coming in this week in A-2 steel . If Spyderco decides to make a go you can count me in , looking forward to a unique sheath knife from Sal ! Anybody have a proposed design for comments other than produced models out there ?

[Halfneck]

I have never taken anything on Bushcraft, so I may not be a good source of info.

Length - 4"-4.5"
Thickness - 1/8" - 5/32"
Handle - Traditionally wood, though G-10 or Micarta could work. Also a hidden tang so there is no exposed metal.
Steel - Usually Carbon because of ease of sharpening and to throw sparks.
Grind - Scandi grind
Sheath - Leather or Kydex with a slot for a Fire Steel.

The knife shown in the original post is pretty much the standard of the design.

Forgot to add, most have minimal integral guards. I am not real fond of that as I prefer the added safety. Not saying some huge metal guard. I prefer a integral guard and a nice finger cut out.

[Ted]

Steel - Usually Carbon because of ease of sharpening and to throw sparks.

From my experience, throwing sparks is not influenced by the type of steel, but by the 'roughness' or 'sharpness' of the material that you use.
On a bushcraft course, some guys bought simple Mora's with carbon steel, but could hardly get any sparks when using the spine on a firesteel. My friend used his S30V Manix which has a pretty sharp and square spine, but still it performed way less the my VG-10 Fallkniven F1 with a real square and sharp spine.

About steel, has anybody here comments or insights on Jerry Hossom's statement? I thought it was quite an interesting view on the subject of stainless vs non-stainless. I only have used stainless in the field, and am happy with how it keeps an edge, but can't compare it to non-stainless.

Personally, I recommend stainless for an outdoors knife. Nothing will take the edge off a knife faster than in-sheath corrosion. The edge will go away long before you will see significant rust elsewhere on a blade.

[The General]

Problem is, *some* bushcrafters can't sharpen plain carbon steel worth a toffee and god help them when its stainless steel...

Their guru does not like stainless steel, so they follow blindly... BUT as they are paying... Give the customer what he wants.

[Cyblade2020]

I'd have to say the only change I would suggest would be instead of wood handle scales use orange micarta. If anyone here has ever dropped a knife in the tall grass they know what a PITA it can be to find if you ever find it. I would hate to have another nice knife dissaper into the woods never to be seen or heard from again. Orange scales would also make it a more sheeple friendly knife if you wear it hiking or camping instead of some all black tactical knife, if possible make it with some type of wood but have it were someone could buy and replace them with orange if they want to.

[Joe Talmadge]

Very exciting. I think it's worth starting with the classic woodlore and going from there. Modest size, all-around blade shape (without too much belly!), high performance edge geometry but with enough strength for good serious batoning, little to no guard, scandanavian grind, and usually, tool steel or carbon steel. The pic in Ken's first post nails it. As others point out, while the hardcore UK crowd sticks with nearly-exact versions of the woodlore, it's also worth looking at the Fallkniven F1 (post #12) and BRKT's North Star http://www.dlttradingcompany.com/produc ... cts_id=490

Both of those feature non-scandanavian grinds, which I like better. I also strongly prefer a little bit more of a guard -- not a big guard, but more than the ineffective speedbump on the classic woodlore.

I definitely understand Jerry Hossom's point, and I think a good stainless well-treated would be fine, but I'd prefer something that I can thin out and still bash pretty good with a baton, and that means something more along the lines of A-2. I don't mind throwing a tuff cloth in my pack. Whatever the final steel and geometry is, thin the edge out good to match the woodlore's performance, then baton it through some good tough wood (maybe hit some knots for grins) and make sure it's up to the task.

[UK KEN]

Many thanks for all of the input! :D

I think that some valid points have been raised and with some help from members of Bushcraft UK we might end up with a very useful tool. :D

I have been involved in bushcraft for many years and have used what I consider the best tools for the job. It has become apparent to me over the past couple of days that for some people a knife not only has to be a well made tool capable of all of the tasks mentioned in this thread, but also have an almost spiritual quality to it! :eek:

Doubt has been cast that Spyderco can make a good outdoor/bushcraft knife. It has been said that they should stick to making strange looking tactical folders and leave this knife to manufacturers who are prepared to use more natural materials. I'm not in the business of coming here to massage Sal's ego but I believe Spyderco would make a great job of this tool. :)

These are the replies I have so far from members at Bushcraft UK:

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/sh ... 7#poststop

Cheers, Ken

[Joe Talmadge]

Interesting. O-1 has always been a favorite of that crowd. I think it's a great choice, although A-2 will be less prone to rust, which is a reasonable consideration. I knew those guys would favor a scandanavian grind, I'd still rather go with full flat or convex, but a scandi grind would definitely appeal to the bushcraft crowd.

[JaM]

I like the sheat to be leather, with a loop. Maybe an ambidextrous sheat is good, too (for the southpaws). Depends a bit on the bladeshape though.
I'd rather have a droppoint then a spearpoint, makes normaol cutting work (foodprep) easier and isnt as 'hard' on the tip. 3-4 mm thickness would be good for me.

[UK KEN]

Interesting. O-1 has always been a favorite of that crowd. I think it's a great choice, although A-2 will be less prone to rust, which is a reasonable consideration. I knew those guys would favor a scandanavian grind, I'd still rather go with full flat or convex, but a scandi grind would definitely appeal to the bushcraft crowd.

Joe

I have not used A-2 steel. I believe it has a good deal more chromium in it than O-1 which is good news where rust is concerned but what is the edge retention like and how easy is it to get a good edge?

Cheers, Ken

[Halfneck]

Hmmm I always thought that Carbon steel was better than Stainless for throwing sparks. Not the 1st time I am wrong. Never been an issue for me as I just always used either a lighter or matches. Used a firestarter I have once, then never again. My bad in a way by not practiceing what could be a lifesaving skill.

[Manix Guy 2]

A-2 steel knives came in this morning , but buddy bought one before I picked up my inventory . Model he bought had external lanyard from what I hear that is a Bushcraft no no , so no biggie . I wanted the other model anyway , it is a BRKt Highlander with orange G10 ( I do like this feature , but may not be for everyone ) , may be more of a Hunter to some but another example of size to gather thoughts . Full tang is very thick , blade has a very nice edge , no too big or small in hand . Just wanting to help , have a good day .

[Joe Talmadge]

I like the sheat to be leather, with a loop. Maybe an ambidextrous sheat is good, too (for the southpaws). Depends a bit on the bladeshape though.
I'd rather have a droppoint then a spearpoint, makes normaol cutting work (foodprep) easier and isnt as 'hard' on the tip. 3-4 mm thickness would be good for me.

Are you looking for more belly by going w/ droppoint? For a bushcrafter, I think too much belly is not considered optimal design -- makes food prep harder, not easier, and makes some wood working type actions more difficult. I'm definitely with the spearpoint crowd, keep the point centerline or lower and not too much radius on the belly.

Joe

[Cyblade2020]

the whole carbon verses stainless for spark throwing is not about the metal match type firestarters like doan's, it's about useing natural flint stones to create a spark. You can use almost any sharp edge to get a spark from a metal match even a semi sharp frost cutlery pos will throw a shower of sparks but if your out in the middle of nowhere and come across some flint stones carbon steel will be needed to make a spark.

[sal]

What do you think about 52100? It's a simple carbon steel, but takes a very good edge (very small grain structure). Popular with the hammer guys.

sal

[butch]

What do you think about 52100? It's a simple carbon steel, but takes a very good edge (very small grain structure). Popular with the hammer guys.

sal

you going to be forging them out your self sal :D
i have heard good things about 52100

[Joe Talmadge]

Joe

I have not used A-2 steel. I believe it has a good deal more chromium in it than O-1 which is good news where rust is concerned but what is the edge retention like and how easy is it to get a good edge?

Ken,

A-2's isn't stainless, but seems to stain slower than steels like O-1. A-2 is more wear resistant than O-1. O-1 is a little easier to put an edge on, but A-2 is still like a dream compared to most stainless