H1Spyderco Machete?

[Bill1170]

Thank you, Al, for doing the experiment. It pays to reexamine our assumptions, even though it doesn’t always result in a breakthrough.

[JoviAl]

Thank you, Al, for doing the experiment. It pays to reexamine our assumptions, even though it doesn’t always result in a breakthrough.

Just another data point on the path to perfect work tools.

[vivi]

Almost feels like a necrobump reviving this thread but one thing led to another and only now have I been able to get round to testing my SE vs PE machetes back to back.
IMG_5842.jpeg
IMG_5843.jpeg

I didn’t take any photos as I was getting absolutely mobbed by mosquitoes at work today, but after a little over 500 cuts each I can safely say that SE on a standard Latin machete is measurably worse to work with than a PE one. It penetrates fractionally deeper in soft materials (I cut down ~30 15ft tall fruited banana palms as my first job today), but is much more difficult to remove when it binds. The PE was dramatically easier to pull out of a banana palm if it didn’t make it all the way through (these are some big ole banana palms at the bottom, around 20 inches across the stump). In harder wood the PE bit deeper and more cleanly every time. The only time when I noticed a real advantage to the SE machete was in cutting free hanging flexible things like vines, as it’s serrations gave it better purchase.

I’m glad I’ve scratched that mental itch, but it raises the question - what can we draw from this? My JM2 with its SE coupled with a hollow grind cuts way better than any PE blade of the same size and rough weight I own, so is it a reflection on the hollow grind being an important distinction (compared to the flat bar stock of the machetes I experimented with today), or is it that it’s a law of diminishing returns after a certain point and SE’s benefits are negated by the larger and faster moving PE edge hitting with massive force?

So many questions, but it’s been a fun experiment (apart from the mosquitoes)!

Unpopular opinion, and also not saying you're guilty of this......

.....but a lot of people confuse why SE often out performs PE for them.....with factory edges.

Many folks here confuse geometry for serrations being superior for certain tasks.

For example, cutting through small branches. That's a task I've seen brought up countless times that people say their SE knives do better at then PE.

I've tried the two edge types side by side....with the PE knife reprofiled to comparably thin geometry as the SE.

And with all else being equal, there's no real advantage for the SE knife.

Yes, serrations do excel at certain tasks. But if you take two enduras, regrind the PE knife just as thin as the SE, many advantages of the SE are now moot. Give the PE endura a really coarse edge, and, in my opinion, now the SE Endura is going to offer more drawbacks like snagging than advantages.

May not hold true for every use case but that's been how things played out for me.

That's why I almost never carry SE knives now, because a coarse PE knife does similar things (holds an edge a long time vs polished PE, grabs materials being cut and doesn't slip as much, etc.),without the snagging, being severely limited in sharpening tools, etc.

[JoviAl]

Almost feels like a necrobump reviving this thread but one thing led to another and only now have I been able to get round to testing my SE vs PE machetes back to back.
IMG_5842.jpeg
IMG_5843.jpeg

I didn’t take any photos as I was getting absolutely mobbed by mosquitoes at work today, but after a little over 500 cuts each I can safely say that SE on a standard Latin machete is measurably worse to work with than a PE one. It penetrates fractionally deeper in soft materials (I cut down ~30 15ft tall fruited banana palms as my first job today), but is much more difficult to remove when it binds. The PE was dramatically easier to pull out of a banana palm if it didn’t make it all the way through (these are some big ole banana palms at the bottom, around 20 inches across the stump). In harder wood the PE bit deeper and more cleanly every time. The only time when I noticed a real advantage to the SE machete was in cutting free hanging flexible things like vines, as it’s serrations gave it better purchase.

I’m glad I’ve scratched that mental itch, but it raises the question - what can we draw from this? My JM2 with its SE coupled with a hollow grind cuts way better than any PE blade of the same size and rough weight I own, so is it a reflection on the hollow grind being an important distinction (compared to the flat bar stock of the machetes I experimented with today), or is it that it’s a law of diminishing returns after a certain point and SE’s benefits are negated by the larger and faster moving PE edge hitting with massive force?

So many questions, but it’s been a fun experiment (apart from the mosquitoes)!

Unpopular opinion, and also not saying you're guilty of this......

.....but a lot of people confuse why SE often out performs PE for them.....with factory edges.

Many folks here confuse geometry for serrations being superior for certain tasks.

For example, cutting through small branches. That's a task I've seen brought up countless times that people say their SE knives do better at then PE.

I've tried the two edge types side by side....with the PE knife reprofiled to comparably thin geometry as the SE.

And with all else being equal, there's no real advantage for the SE knife.

Yes, serrations do excel at certain tasks. But if you take two enduras, regrind the PE knife just as thin as the SE, many advantages of the SE are now moot. Give the PE endura a really coarse edge, and, in my opinion, now the SE Endura is going to offer more drawbacks like snagging than advantages.

May not hold true for every use case but that's been how things played out for me.

That's why I almost never carry SE knives now, because a coarse PE knife does similar things (holds an edge a long time vs polished PE, grabs materials being cut and doesn't slip as much, etc.),without the snagging, being severely limited in sharpening tools, etc.

Good point well made the SE on this machete is a much lower DPS than the tested PE and it still didn’t perform as well as I had hoped.

After mulling it over last night after work it seems that the short but relatively heavy blade stock ~5 inch JM2 with its hollow grind penetrates better than any equivalent 5 inch PE blade I have, but a ~5 inch blade isn’t normally renowned as a hacking/chopping implement. The heavier bar stock and whippable handle coupled with my confidence in H1 SE’s robustness had given me a false data point that I’ve extrapolated out from.

[Midnightrider]

Cutting coconuts is fairly simple when you know how to do it. Doesn't require a lot of force. I don't remember the technique, but I've seen it done.

sal

Coconut shell is really hard stuff. To get one open, ream out one of the eyes (one will be softer than the others) and then drain the cocanut water into a container. It's good stuff, I strain it into a measuring cup.

Then you give the coconut a few good whacks on the seam. I use the back of a meat cleaver for that but the back of a machete would also be fine. Anyway, when you hit it on the seam it breaks open nicely. If you're lucky you get two more or less equal halves.

Then the fun begins. You need a really stiff spoon or stiff and dull knife to pry out the meat.

Seems to me like a dedicated coconut knife / breaching tool would be a hot seller

Coco-spydies! For everyone

[JoviAl]

While deciding what to use today I realised that my wanting to try an SE machete was driven by wanting something that cuts (especially hacks) above its weight. My JM2 cuts better than my S2XL, but it is heavier. My Skrama cuts better than my JM2 and my machetes, but again it is heavier (and reprofiled thin). My chainsaw laughs at all of the above, but it also is about the weight of a modest boat anchor. So I suppose what I’m looking for is the smallest/lightest thing I can functionally do chopping tasks with at work (which are frequent and varied), then stick back in my pocket/belt and forget about until I next use it.

[JoviAl]

Cutting coconuts is fairly simple when you know how to do it. Doesn't require a lot of force. I don't remember the technique, but I've seen it done.

sal

Coconut shell is really hard stuff. To get one open, ream out one of the eyes (one will be softer than the others) and then drain the cocanut water into a container. It's good stuff, I strain it into a measuring cup.

Then you give the coconut a few good whacks on the seam. I use the back of a meat cleaver for that but the back of a machete would also be fine. Anyway, when you hit it on the seam it breaks open nicely. If you're lucky you get two more or less equal halves.

Then the fun begins. You need a really stiff spoon or dull knife to pry out the meat.

Seems to me like a dedicate coconut knife / breaching tool would be a hot seller

I wonder if we’re all talking about the same type of coconut here. We harvest them when they are still young and green as we grow a lot of commercial water producing varieties like Malaysian Dwarf. Cutting the soft green husk off of one of those is easy, as is scooping out the gooey contents once the water is drained out. If I was cracking a mature coconut like you’re referring to I’d use a the back of a block cleaver as you suggested, or even a table edge.

[vivi]

IMG_5846.jpeg

While deciding what to use today I realised that my wanting to try an SE machete was driven by wanting something that cuts (especially hacks) above its weight. My JM2 cuts better than my S2XL, but it is heavier. My Skrama cuts better than my JM2 and my machetes, but again it is heavier (and reprofiled thin). My chainsaw laughs at all of the above, but it also is about the weight of a modest boat anchor. So I suppose what I’m looking for is the smallest/lightest thing I can functionally do chopping tasks with at work (which are frequent and varied), then stick back in my pocket/belt and forget about until I next use it.

that's something I like my recon tantos for.

they have a bit more heft and length than most my smaller fixed blades, which tend to be 4-6" blades.

I use mine for minor trail maintenance, trimming back briars, etc. like I did earlier today in fact. Also removed some poison ivy growth from a few areas with frequent foot traffic.





I like lighter weight knives much of the time, like Moras and Aqua Salts. Backpacking in particular they're nice. But a stouter knife like the Recon, or even my Temperance 2 VS the Temperance 1....that extra bit of heft and blade length can be handy when using them as pocket machetes.

[JoviAl]

IMG_5846.jpeg

While deciding what to use today I realised that my wanting to try an SE machete was driven by wanting something that cuts (especially hacks) above its weight. My JM2 cuts better than my S2XL, but it is heavier. My Skrama cuts better than my JM2 and my machetes, but again it is heavier (and reprofiled thin). My chainsaw laughs at all of the above, but it also is about the weight of a modest boat anchor. So I suppose what I’m looking for is the smallest/lightest thing I can functionally do chopping tasks with at work (which are frequent and varied), then stick back in my pocket/belt and forget about until I next use it.

that's something I like my recon tantos for.

they have a bit more heft and length than most my smaller fixed blades, which tend to be 4-6" blades.

I use mine for minor trail maintenance, trimming back briars, etc. like I did earlier today in fact. Also removed some poison ivy growth from a few areas with frequent foot traffic.





I like lighter weight knives much of the time, like Moras and Aqua Salts. Backpacking in particular they're nice. But a stouter knife like the Recon, or even my Temperance 2 VS the Temperance 1....that extra bit of heft and blade length can be handy when using them as pocket machetes.

I have a recon tanto but I find it just a smidge too big to carry at work without it poking out on display when I’m in public. Capable knife though for sure.

[Fireman]

Almost feels like a necrobump reviving this thread but one thing led to another and only now have I been able to get round to testing my SE vs PE machetes back to back.
IMG_5842.jpeg
IMG_5843.jpeg

I didn’t take any photos as I was getting absolutely mobbed by mosquitoes at work today, but after a little over 500 cuts each I can safely say that SE on a standard Latin machete is measurably worse to work with than a PE one. It penetrates fractionally deeper in soft materials (I cut down ~30 15ft tall fruited banana palms as my first job today), but is much more difficult to remove when it binds. The PE was dramatically easier to pull out of a banana palm if it didn’t make it all the way through (these are some big ole banana palms at the bottom, around 20 inches across the stump). In harder wood the PE bit deeper and more cleanly every time. The only time when I noticed a real advantage to the SE machete was in cutting free hanging flexible things like vines, as it’s serrations gave it better purchase.

I’m glad I’ve scratched that mental itch, but it raises the question - what can we draw from this? My JM2 with its SE coupled with a hollow grind cuts way better than any PE blade of the same size and rough weight I own, so is it a reflection on the hollow grind being an important distinction (compared to the flat bar stock of the machetes I experimented with today), or is it that it’s a law of diminishing returns after a certain point and SE’s benefits are negated by the larger and faster moving PE edge hitting with massive force?

So many questions, but it’s been a fun experiment (apart from the mosquitoes)!

Good job with the serrations! This is why I was encouraging a double sided machete to have one side serrated for when that is an advantage and the other side for when a plain edge is an advantage with the same tool but as with everything there is something compromised to get every advantage and not everyone wants a double edged machete. This thought experiment has been fun and has opened up some new directions in my thoughts on machetes. I hope we will see a Spyderco machete but I will probably make a custom one to suit my desires but I have been busy with all my axes lately. (Not ex’s). I’ll get back in the machete train soon.

[Bill1170]

Almost feels like a necrobump reviving this thread but one thing led to another and only now have I been able to get round to testing my SE vs PE machetes back to back.
IMG_5842.jpeg
IMG_5843.jpeg

I didn’t take any photos as I was getting absolutely mobbed by mosquitoes at work today, but after a little over 500 cuts each I can safely say that SE on a standard Latin machete is measurably worse to work with than a PE one. It penetrates fractionally deeper in soft materials (I cut down ~30 15ft tall fruited banana palms as my first job today), but is much more difficult to remove when it binds. The PE was dramatically easier to pull out of a banana palm if it didn’t make it all the way through (these are some big ole banana palms at the bottom, around 20 inches across the stump). In harder wood the PE bit deeper and more cleanly every time. The only time when I noticed a real advantage to the SE machete was in cutting free hanging flexible things like vines, as it’s serrations gave it better purchase.

I’m glad I’ve scratched that mental itch, but it raises the question - what can we draw from this? My JM2 with its SE coupled with a hollow grind cuts way better than any PE blade of the same size and rough weight I own, so is it a reflection on the hollow grind being an important distinction (compared to the flat bar stock of the machetes I experimented with today), or is it that it’s a law of diminishing returns after a certain point and SE’s benefits are negated by the larger and faster moving PE edge hitting with massive force?

So many questions, but it’s been a fun experiment (apart from the mosquitoes)!

Good job with the serrations! This is why I was encouraging a double sided machete to have one side serrated for when that is an advantage and the other side for when a plain edge is an advantage with the same tool but as with everything there is something compromised to get every advantage and not everyone wants a double edged machete. This thought experiment has been fun and has opened up some new directions in my thoughts on machetes. I hope we will see a Spyderco machete but I will probably make a custom one to suit my desires but I have been busy with all my axes lately. (Not ex’s). I’ll get back in the machete train soon.

“All my axes pay their taxes?”

[Midnightrider]

Cutting coconuts is fairly simple when you know how to do it. Doesn't require a lot of force. I don't remember the technique, but I've seen it done.

sal

Coconut shell is really hard stuff. To get one open, ream out one of the eyes (one will be softer than the others) and then drain the cocanut water into a container. It's good stuff, I strain it into a measuring cup.

Then you give the coconut a few good whacks on the seam. I use the back of a meat cleaver for that but the back of a machete would also be fine. Anyway, when you hit it on the seam it breaks open nicely. If you're lucky you get two more or less equal halves.

Then the fun begins. You need a really stiff spoon or dull knife to pry out the meat.

Seems to me like a dedicate coconut knife / breaching tool would be a hot seller

I wonder if we’re all talking about the same type of coconut here. We harvest them when they are still young and green as we grow a lot of commercial water producing varieties like Malaysian Dwarf. Cutting the soft green husk off of one of those is easy, as is scooping out the gooey contents once the water is drained out. If I was cracking a mature coconut like you’re referring to I’d use a the back of a block cleaver as you suggested, or even a table edge.

I don't think we ever see green coconuts. I meant the ones that have a few weeks left to live, thick brown shells, hair, kinda like a tropical Mr. Potato Head

[JoviAl]

Cutting coconuts is fairly simple when you know how to do it. Doesn't require a lot of force. I don't remember the technique, but I've seen it done.

sal

Coconut shell is really hard stuff. To get one open, ream out one of the eyes (one will be softer than the others) and then drain the cocanut water into a container. It's good stuff, I strain it into a measuring cup.

Then you give the coconut a few good whacks on the seam. I use the back of a meat cleaver for that but the back of a machete would also be fine. Anyway, when you hit it on the seam it breaks open nicely. If you're lucky you get two more or less equal halves.

Then the fun begins. You need a really stiff spoon or dull knife to pry out the meat.

Seems to me like a dedicate coconut knife / breaching tool would be a hot seller

I wonder if we’re all talking about the same type of coconut here. We harvest them when they are still young and green as we grow a lot of commercial water producing varieties like Malaysian Dwarf. Cutting the soft green husk off of one of those is easy, as is scooping out the gooey contents once the water is drained out. If I was cracking a mature coconut like you’re referring to I’d use a the back of a block cleaver as you suggested, or even a table edge.

I don't think we ever see green coconuts. I meant the ones that have a few weeks left to live, thick brown shells, hair, kinda like a tropical Mr. Potato Head

“Tropical Mr Potato Head” I enjoyed that.

[Jeb]

Guys,

I really love the style design of this Ed Schempp Rock fixed blade knife so much so that I think it would make a great blade shape for the machete.

Even the grip design on the Rock is killer. Full tang through the grip with the added tab for the lanyard to attach.

But you guys have a look at this thing, if it was just a longer blade length this thing would really make a great shape for the machete here, least I think it would.

The grip has a sufficient palm swell and grip cap and length to it that anybody could grab this thing and sling it easy enough. My paws fit this Rock great and have already used it for a chopper and it's fit in my paws great. Just say'n this Rock could really rock for a machete if it was longer.

[sal]

It's a great design from a brilliant designer.

sal

[vivi]

Never owned one of those Jeb but I have handled one. I'd be down for an XL version. The negative blade angle is in between a straight machete and kukri from what I remember. If the handle molds are still around I'd be on board.

my only issue with the original is that point above the spyderhole layed right into my palm when I used the choil to choke up. otherwise it was a really cool design, just smaller than I had a use for at the time.

[Jeb]

V,
Your correct, it's just almost a Kukri design, those hack and chop really great for me too. One of the very reasons I suggest this design, that or we go full blown Kukri for our Spyderco Machete.

The grip on this Rock is just flat out awesome. I feel really fortunate to have been able to score this one I did. Didn't get the box with this one, but I didn't pay 650 bucks for it either lol.

I just think one of these in a larger version and made from some newer steel like MagnaCut with the matching Sheath would really be quite the Machete.

[JoviAl]

V,
Your correct, it's just almost a Kukri design, those hack and chop really great for me too. One of the very reasons I suggest this design, that or we go full blown Kukri for our Spyderco Machete.

The grip on this Rock is just flat out awesome. I feel really fortunate to have been able to score this one I did. Didn't get the box with this one, but I didn't pay 650 bucks for it either lol.

I just think one of these in a larger version and made from some newer steel like MagnaCut with the matching Sheath would really be quite the Machete.

Count me in - anything big and rust proof is right up my street.

[vivi]

I wonder if it'd be cheaper to simply make a Rock Salt XL with a 10-14" blade than make a new dewign from the ground up?

[JoviAl]

I wonder if it'd be cheaper to simply make a Rock Salt XL with a 10-14" blade than make a new dewign from the ground up?

I’d certainly be interested in a bigger one of those.