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Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:26 pm
by p_atrick
i was really hoping the latest reveal would have shown this knife.
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2024 6:55 am
by aicolainen
Brock O Lee wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:25 pm
You are probably right @awa54, and Spyderco will have their reasons for their approach.
In my opinion however, it is a missed opportunity if this project kicks off to only optimise for geometry, and not steel too... Geometry is easy to optimise yourself by dropping a bevel angle significantly or get a regrind, or both. What is hard to get is:
1. a high performance steel with
2. an optimised heat treatment and
3. an optimised geometry.
The stock standard K390 Delica gets me there two thirds of the way. If I put a decently low edge on it I am 90% there. A thin regrind takes me to 100%.
VG10 seems like an odd choice since a K390 Delica already exists and is a proven and well-loved high performance package.
I sincerely do not understand the choice of VG10 here.
Then again, there are many things I do not understand in this world...
If I remember correctly it wasn't so much a choice, but a compromise as the maker wasn't able to do (high) hollow grinds on k390. So it was down to VG-10 or no knife at all.
As someone being rather clueless about steels, I'm curious as to if Cru-wear could be a better compromise? The steel is already there, and they have done hollow grinds, though not very high ones. Sounds interesting to me, but I have no clue how edge stability would be compared to VG-10.
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2024 7:12 am
by awa54
Sakai has done many of the steels that would be well suited to a HHG for Spyderco in the past, for Sprint and LE variants. It's possible that there was also a price consideration?
It's been a long time since I read this thread end to end, but IIRC someone indicated that VG-10 was being used as a reference steel, since it's a well known quantity for most of us with long time Spyderco experience.
...at this point it could be AUS8 or 12C27 for all I care, I just want to finally see a picture of the pre-production knife, or even better be able to buy one! :D
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2024 9:20 am
by jdw
Every time that I see this thread pop up I jump on it. I am really excited for the knife and I can’t wait to buy one. From the outside looking in it’s pretty confusing why it has taken so long to come into production. It seems like a no brainer. I will still be excited whenever it happens but the wait time is getting kind of silly.
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:21 pm
by ZrowsN1s
I'm just happy people are still interested. I think it has potential to be a series of steels beyond VG-10. Geometry cuts.
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:49 pm
by cycleguy
Can someone here outline the shortcomings of the standard performance Delica?
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 7:33 pm
by Mushroom
cycleguy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:49 pm
Can someone here outline the shortcomings of the standard performance Delica?
1. It is a full flat grind not a high hollow grind with a thin edge.
2. See 1.
Personally, I wouldn't call full flat grind a "shortcoming" but that is the primary (only?) difference between the "standard performance Delica" and the "High Performance Delica."
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:00 pm
by awa54
cycleguy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:49 pm
Can someone here outline the shortcomings of the standard performance Delica?
Mushroom wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 7:33 pm
1. It is a full flat grind not a high hollow grind with a thin edge.
2. See 1.
Personally, I wouldn't call full flat grind a "shortcoming" but that is the primary (only?) difference between the "standard performance Delica" and the "High Performance Delica."
The low thickness behind the edge with a very thin hollow grind contributes to better slicing performance in soft media.
Some might argue that other cutting parameters are as important or more important (and therefore legitimately "high performance" too), but for this exercise best *at the edge* slicing performance seems to be the target.
If you've used a GB1, then you'll know what we're talking about.
...also, the regular production version isn't available in MagnaCut or Cru-Wear
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 11:21 pm
by Wartstein
Well, I just can say I AM still excited - but also can wait
As said already: I am actually even pretty happy that this thing will come in VG10 and thus an easy to sharpen steel and easy to repair edge.
This should be nice features for a NOT master sharpener like me who still wants to test what this thin edge and high hollow grind blade will be able to take both when it comes to steep edge angles as well as how hard one can use it.
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:39 pm
by Wartstein
Well, I said I can wait in my post above and of course that is still true. No problem.
But now that I realize again that according to the very first post here Sal said that "our high-performance Delica is just beginning to go forward" already in early April 2021, I am just genuinely curious what can take more than 3.5 years yet.
Again, no critique, just curious.
- Can´t be that it takes that long to figure out how far (high/thin) they can go with that high hollow grind, can it?
- Can´t be about steel choice or resources, can it?
- Could it be general production capacity? Do they sell so many "regular" Delicas that they need constant replenishment, so that there is no room for a "special" bladed Delica? (cause the rest of the knife should remain the same)?
Can´t really imagine that too.
- Do they feel like "the market" is not ready yet, or it is not the right time to bring out the HPD for some other reasons? (For example that there are particular other new models that could draw away interest from the HPD so it could get "overlooked")? Also not really plausible for me...
- Do they maybe have everything ready to start production but are still considering if it generally is worth the financial risk and doubt that the knife will be received well enough?
Don´t know about that - after all the high performance Delica includes comparably little cost as far as I can see - no new molds, no real new parts, probably not even a new blade shape, but "just" a new grind....
A bit of a mystery to me...
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:44 pm
by Wartstein
Meanwhile, in order to pass the time, we could speculate about other, not really important aspects of the high performance Delica...
I would find it cool for example if this very special model got an a bit different handle color.
Thinking about a two toned handle, like one side white, the other side black or something like that...
Don´t think though that a different handle
material than the usual (and imo perfect!) FRN would be a good idea, since this knife should not get too expensive in order to bring it into the hands of as many users and "testers" as possible.
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:05 am
by Mushroom
Wartstein wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:39 pm
Well, I said I can wait in my post above and of course that is still true. No problem.
But now that I realize again that according to the very first post here Sal said that "our high-performance Delica is just beginning to go forward" already in early April 2021, I am just genuinely curious what can take more than 3.5 years yet.
Again, no critique, just curious.
- Can´t be that it takes that long to figure out how far (high/thin) they can go with that high hollow grind, can it?
- Can´t be about steel choice or resources, can it?
- Could it be general production capacity? Do they sell so many "regular" Delicas that they need constant replenishment, so that there is no room for a "special" bladed Delica? (cause the rest of the knife should remain the same)?
Can´t really imagine that too.
- Do they feel like "the market" is not ready yet, or it is not the right time to bring out the HPD for some other reasons? (For example that there are particular other new models that could draw away interest from the HPD so it could get "overlooked")? Also not really plausible for me...
- Do they maybe have everything ready to start production but are still considering if it generally is worth the financial risk and doubt that the knife will be received well enough?
Don´t know about that - after all the high performance Delica includes comparably little cost as far as I can see - no new molds, no real new parts, probably not even a new blade shape, but "just" a new grind....
A bit of a mystery to me...
There is nothing out of the ordinary about this wait time. This is how long these projects take. (Yes, production capacity has a huge impact on that) Had it been released in a year or two after Sal mentioned moving forward with it,
that would have been the anomaly.
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:08 am
by Evil D
I believe the Chief took around a decade from the time I first heard about it to the time it was in production.
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:10 am
by awa54
IIRC, Sal had mentioned that one of the biggest time related elements to production was likely to be getting a slot in Sakai's manufacturing schedule.
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:10 am
by elena86
I was thinking that Sal could at least throw us a bone from time to time
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:12 am
by Wartstein
Mushroom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:05 am
There is nothing out of the ordinary about this wait time. This is how long these projects take. (Yes, production capacity has a huge impact on that) Had it been released in a year or two after Sal mentioned moving forward with it,
that would have been the anomaly.
I believe you, Nick, since you always have a lot of knowledge about such things in "Spyder-world"
In this case I just figured it could perhaps happen quicker, since, as far as I can see it, this is "just" about giving a 100% already existing knife/model a new grind (high hollow), while everything else remains business as usual... but what do I know...
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2024 7:20 pm
by awa54
elena86 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:10 am
I was thinking that Sal could at least throw us a bone from time to time
A pic of that prototype would get me all hyped up for sure!
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2024 7:29 pm
by awa54
I think we should all go out and buy a Centofante 3 in solidarity with the concept.
At the same time we got a nifty and classic design, we'd also get a taste of what a really acute hollow grind edge is like in VG-10 (spoiler alert, I already own one. I also assume that many in this thread do as well and it slices veeeerrry nicely!)
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 11:41 pm
by Wartstein
Might have been said here already (can´t recall the whole thread): But I would hope for an SE version of this knife too... I think "for science" it would be really interesting to find out what serrations can take (or NOT) in this thin, high hollow grind...
Re: High Performance Delica Excitement
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:26 am
by weeping minora
Still patiently waiting for this Delica to drop. I have to agree that it seems a bit strange to have such a wait time, since really the only change is to the grind, as the Delica should be all tooled up and ready to produce. Many of the variations have already been discontinued, and the Delica is a tried-and-true seller, so it begs the question, "what gives?". Maybe those variations have given to make room for this variation? Maybe there have been issues in testing the model that has prevented this from moving forward at a bit faster pace? Perhaps this will require tweaks to their standard heat-treatment of VG-10 in order to make this grind work?
Obviously Seki-City has the capability to produce hollow grinds, as is seen within the H1/H2 Salt offerings. Maybe the K390 train is still hogging all the coal in Seki-City? Looks like this variant won't be released until the Delica has exceeded the $100 threshold, which will inevitably hurt sales, and most likely cause this variant to be one for the history books, much like the recent dilemma with the Jumpers, along with the wharncliffe Seki-model variants (and many SE offerings, to boot). Would still be nice to at least see a Sprint Run, or Flash Batch.
