Elastic Ceramic. Wow!

[sal]

We're testing samples now. We'll put in on the CATRA tomorrow. Thinking about a Mule Team.

sal

[Woodpuppy]

Very interesting...

[Fireman]

We're testing samples now. We'll put in on the CATRA tomorrow. Thinking about a Mule Team.

sal

Super duper excited !!!!

[Doc Dan]

This is cool. I will have to buy a mule in this material.

[TomAiello]

I'd definitely try to get the Mule in this material.

I'll be very interested to see what the Catra numbers are like, if Sal can share them with us.

[Matus]

I got two of the small ones (for family as presents). No, they don't shave arm hair and as was already mentioned - the may at first feel 'dull', but they do cut. The material behaves very differently from steel. These are supposed to be finished at 1200 grit - that kind of edge would be crazy aggressive on a kitchen knife, these don't feel quite as aggressive (the 'teeth' must look different at a microscopic level), but they do cut. Also - since the knives are feather light (literally), they don't bring any weight of their own to the cutting what also changes the impression in hand.

These are light use knives IMO as they are really quite flexible. The large ones will obviously be a little stiffer.

[KKnives_Switzerland]

Hi all
Finally found time to reply to this thread. Below is a super quick video I made of a hair shaving edge. In order to get it, one has to strop the factory edge we currently ship either on 6micron, then 1 micron diamond paste (and lower if wanted) or, which yields somewhat better results, on diamond lapping films on a squishy foam like gun case foam as a backing with oil on the film as a lubricant. I get my diamond lapping films cheap (10USDish) from "practicalsharpening". Still had no time to do the promised sharpening tutorial, so much work. Please bear with me

Also, Sal, if you are reading this, I am so stoked about Spyderco trying the elastic HIC ceramic. Curious what you will find.

And if anyone wonders about my connection with the HIC ceramic: Rahven and I are partners. I do knife related R&D and other things with and for them.

https://youtube.com/shorts/CjknZd2u6TQ?feature=share

[KKnives_Switzerland]

Oh and I almost forgot - we are working on offering a sharpening system in the Rahven shop. Finding the perfect Shore hardness for the elastic backing currently. I personally had the best sharpening results with the foam taken from a SAM splint, but I still haven't figured out the exact type of foam used on those splints. Gun case foam works nice too, but it is a tad too soft imo.

[archangel]

I am a bit surprised and confused. I thought KKnives said that you need special machinery to work this material, which I would totally expect. Now Sal says he might be thinking about making a MT out of this. :confused:

[Fireman]

Thanks for posting here KKnives!!!
We finally smoked you out
Glad we are all on the same thread now.
The synergy of your alchemy ceramic and Sal/Spyderco could be a great outcome.

[Fireman]

Sam splints are not that expensive. you can just chop up sam splints to the size desired. Funny thing is we have those on all our fire engines and now all I am going to think of us sharpening knives lol.

[KKnives_Switzerland]

I am a bit surprised and confused. I thought KKnives said that you need special machinery to work this material, which I would totally expect. Now Sal says he might be thinking about making a MT out of this. :confused:

Well, while it is true that you need special machinery, it is available on the market. Or, as an alternative, it wouldn't be the first time that Spyderco has something made in Switzerland. Let's see first though how Sal likes it before even thinking about Spyderco using it. But there are definitely ways to make it happen if we talk technical aspects. Let's be patient guys and see what happens! :)

[KKnives_Switzerland]

Sam splints are not that expensive. you can just chop up sam splints to the size desired. Funny thing is we have those on all our fire engines and now all I am going to think of us sharpening knives lol.

Haha that is funny indeed. For larger volumes of sharpening systems though, chopping up SAM splints ain't gonna cut it though. (Pardon the pun lol)

[archangel]

I am a bit surprised and confused. I thought KKnives said that you need special machinery to work this material, which I would totally expect. Now Sal says he might be thinking about making a MT out of this. :confused:

Well, while it is true that you need special machinery, it is available on the market. Or, as an alternative, it wouldn't be the first time that Spyderco has something made in Switzerland. Let's see first though how Sal likes it though before even thinking about Spyderco using it. But there are definitely ways to make it happen if we talk technical aspects. Let's be patient guys and see what happens! :)

You're right. Patience is a virtue. :)

[KKnives_Switzerland]

A little curious as to how a mule would work as this appears to be a pretty flexible material and is probably being made rather thin. I'm all for it though.

The elastic HIC ceramic behaves pretty much like steel: grind steel thin, with thin stock, and it flexes. But with thick stock, it will flex far less. While that doesn't work or work only in a very limited way with normal ceramic, the elastic HIC ceramic behaves like steel in that regard. So for a mule, thicker, 3 or better 4mm stock, would be be possible. And it can be made, but currently we only make 2mm stock. But there is pretty much no limit to thickness, you can make this stuff several inches thick, complex shapes and geometries. (So there are tons of other applications for the HIC ceramic, too...) A very intersting fact about the elastic HIC ceramic: cracks do not propagate. If a crack appears in the matrix, it just stops spreading after a very short while and just "stays" there without growing, and has little impact on the rest of the material zone around it. You can imagine it like the opposite of a ceramic kitchen plate. Once you got a chip in normal ceramic, it is a significant weak spot. But far, far less with the elastic HIC ceramic. This is a pretty huge deal, too, apart from the elasticity.

...I have been wanting to make prototype ballistic armor in the shape of SAPI plates from it for a while now, but it would be an expensive project and our focus is on other projects now. But I hope to make it happen, I could imagine this stuff being the ultimate ballistic armor, if made into a like 1 inch thick, curved body armor plate. Super light weight, that's for sure. (If DARPA is reading this, let me/us know, haha. :P)

[KKnives_Switzerland]

I'm not very artsy, but it seems to cut honey dew just fine. The knife is sharper than I originally thought just feeling the edge out of the box.

It feels different, doesn't it? The HIC ceramic has a very low friction coefficiant, which I think is the reason for why an edge on it feels less "bitey" or aggressive on the finger tip than what it actually is. Definitely a great ball bearing material; shock resistant, hard, smooth. (For folders for example... ln phosphorus bronze cages.. Let alone for industrial applications... But one thing at a time.)

[KKnives_Switzerland]

I was all set to order, but the shipping is 50% of the blade price. Shipping services in Switzerland must be very expensive.

Unfortunately yes.
An overseas distributor would be great. So Sal being interested is good news.

[KKnives_Switzerland]

I got the info directly from him and it is in the works but not a sellable product yet.
Just for perspective, the elastic ceramic cut 2,350 cuts of rope on Cedric and Ada while Z-Max cut 1000 till it started to hang up while cutting paper. This is a game changer. That should be a lifetime shaver and if you had issues I hope you could remove the blade and sharpen it and then give it to your son for his lifetime. Am I being optimistic? I don’t know but the tests are amazing. All this and no corrosive issues that makes blades dull much quicker than normal.

In the works, but needs more time, as you hinted. Could definitely be a game changer for the shaving game, but must confirm first. A life time of shaving without touch ups? Hmm, maybe it's even possible, but it's very optimistic. Yet having elastic ceramic also was very optimistic a few years ago. 10 years of shaving without any stropping are a realistic goal and also would be great I think. I am on it.

[Woodpuppy]

Oh man... a knife you don’t need to sharpen... do you not know us at all? :p

[Cl1ff]

Also very intrigued!
If the mules perform well, I will probably buy one as well as some of the Rahven knives.

Kinda want to see a machete out of this stuff lol

Also, KKnives, when you say “complex shapes”, just how complex? Could you make a shape like some of these?

https://youtu.be/4WwVkwamMuA

And the lower limit to amount of detail?
Like 1mm? 0.5mm? Is that too small?

Apologies for the bombardment of questions that probably would be more appropriate in a private email because they don’t exactly relate to Spyderco or knives.
I’ve just got an idea and I’m curious if it’s not feasible before I think too deeply about it lol.
If your answer is yes to my first question, would you mind if I email you or something?

There are so many possible applications for this stuff!