Spyderco Forums

Man nobody needs to sue anyone.......Except maybe Spyderco for building such a sought after beautiful knife thats so addictive that it must have crack cocaine embedded g-10 scales.

Sequimite wrote:Yeah, I made the point before that this is bad business because KW is being reactive instead of proactive,

this is true, but there is a possibility that they are in the dark as much as us. I e-mailed them a little while ago and they replied that they have no date. The knife is past due for six month. I do not think that anybody would appreciated six monthly or twelve by-weekly e-mails saying:" Sorry, we have no date".
I even not sure that Spyderco knows the date.
Just to refresh people's memory ZDP black Lum was at least two years late and ZDP and Lum Chinese back than was as hot as 204 + para2 now, probably be even hotter.

phaust wrote:Beyond being pleasant to receive updates, it's actually a rule by the FTC that KW as the seller has to give an update if it doesn't ship in time and even offer a full refund. It's known as the Mail Order Rule. BF has a thread on it http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... ou-can-do-!

An excerpt

phaust, not arguing with you but would this apply since Knifeworks called this a preorder?

Clip wrote:phaust, not arguing with you but would this apply since Knifeworks called this a preorder?

Could be wrong, but I don't believe that matters. The thread there just says it applies "when you advertise merchandise", which holds for a preorder. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

I feel bad for KW honestly because they have had the worst luck with preorders. This same thing happened with a knife from another brand as well. They don't seem to have good luck with getting their exclusives on time.

bh49 wrote:I even not sure that Spyderco knows the date.

I read this kind of thing frequently, and also statements like "we don't care how long because they are taking the extra time to make it perfect". I think these kinds of statements are disrespectful of Spyderco. If Spyderco wanted to produce this knife now I have complete faith that they could produce it now. Or if they decided that they would start producing them on Monday and ship them out on Friday, they could do that and they would be perfect.

You hire a songwriter to produce a chart topping song and they may not be able to do it on demand, but Spyderco is a top manufacturer and they aren't piddling around with this knife for nearly 12 months trying to figure out how to produce it pefectly. They can do it with one hand behind their back. The schedule is probably driven by business decisions regarding what they are going to make next to satisfy market demand and that's strictly their business.

I would like to see updates on this knife as much as anyone else. I would also like to see the Sprints and exclusives be produced in a more timely manner so there could be more of them. If they start coming 12 months or more apart that just means a lot less of them for the consumer, and the delays in this current knife will have negative affects on future sprints and exclusives. Retailers and distributors might not be so interested in investing in future models and consumers might be less apt to go for the preorders. And if a retailer has trouble selling the knives they will stop ordering them.

When we get our sprints, we complain that production knives aren't stocked enough. When Sal says they'll bring that issue up with the company to try and solve that problem, we're angry because we don't get our sprints.

I'm just thankful that I've got several* other Spydercos to choose from and use and that I'm not hindered or losing time/money/productivity by the lack of this Para sprint right now.

*way too many

Clip wrote:When we get our sprints, we complain that production knives aren't stocked enough. When Sal says they'll bring that issue up with the company to try and solve that problem, we're angry because we don't get our sprints.

I'm just thankful that I've got several* other Spydercos to choose from and use and that I'm not hindered or losing time/money/productivity by the lack of this Para sprint right now.

*way too many

Well your partially right and wrong. Im complaining because i want them all, Production and Sprints :D

If it was that easy I will happily take my 20$ back :mad:

bh49 wrote: I even not sure that Spyderco knows the date.
Just to refresh people's memory ZDP black Lum was at least two years late and ZDP and Lum Chinese back than was as hot as 204 + para2 now, probably be even hotter.

bdblue wrote:I read this kind of thing frequently, I think these kinds of statements are disrespectful of Spyderco. If Spyderco wanted to produce this knife now I have complete faith that they could produce it now.

O dear,
It looks like you misunderstood me. In addition to very tight production schedule at Golden, Spyderco hands can be tied with steel availability. Lum was couple years late due to ZDP been not available in quantities, requested by all customers. The same with 204P. Couple months ago Sal mentioned that Carpenter is having a problem with 204P production. It looks like some of 204P was released, but probably wasn't enough for Southard and green para2. Just couple years ago Spyderco would never post release day for one simple reason: it depends on supplier. And sometimes suppliers are really late, which can be very understandable, when we are talking about new product like 204P.
Do you still feel that I was disrespectful to Spyderco?

I think that people are getting all upset over nothing. It will come when it comes.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not upset. If Spyderco, KW, or Carpenter come up and say we're another year out...it is what it is.

However, I think the, "it'll come when it comes", attitude is why we accept such poor customer service now a days. I don't know how old everyone here is, but if your over 30, think back to the way you used to be treated as a customer. Now, think about how you ARE treated as a customer. Do the two even compare?

All I'm asking for is communication. There is people's money on the table. There is an obligation by KW, if no one else.

I assure you that I don't accept poor customer service at all. After working in that industry for years I regularly call out companies that suck at taking care of customers. In this case though, we know that Spyderco has been running at full capacity for a while and that scheduling is difficult. We also know that they were having issues getting 204P just right. They can't just stop and not fill empty production time so it means that this knife is delayed.

Would communication be nice, of course. But I feel that in this case, I know all the factors and a pre order is never guaranteed to be released at any time. So I will accept that it will come when it comes.

Having worked as an account manager for a large food company, I know just how tricky production scheduling can be. So, I tend to be a bit more sympathetic about these things.

I'm not upset either and I don't mind waiting. Spyderco stopped doing any new exclusives a year ago due to their overtaxed production. This was the last one and I'm glad it made it in under the wire. I'd rather wait than not have what is practically my ideal EDC.

I do think that this this is poor customer service. for instance:

"Hello, this is your monthly notice that we haven't forgotten about you and still have no firm date for receiving our exclusive Spyderco Dark Green G-10 204P Paramilitary 2's. Spyderco is in an enviable but tough position in that the demand for their Golden made knives has exploded and so everyone is waiting longer than we anticipated. We know you are anxious to get your hands of this fine unique knife and we are also very anxious to sell it to you. As soon as they arrive we will notify you. We're sorry that we can't be more specific about when that will be."

That took two minutes and would serve IMO to strengthen ties between KW and their frustrated customers.

bh49 wrote:Couple months ago Sal mentioned that Carpenter is having a problem with 204P production. It looks like some of 204P was released, but probably wasn't enough for Southard and green para2

If blade material is not available then I could see that this would be a legitimate delay of the product. But they have produced the Southards beginning many months after the sellout of the green PM2. If material was limited the could have made the PM2's first. AFAIK they haven't released the MT14 yet so there could be some problems with 204P, either technical problems or supply problems.

One of our issues is that we do not know the line up in the pipeline.
Its easy to think one run might or should be ahead of another based on what we think we know.
Truth is, Sprints and LE's are tricky. And the one who placed the initial order wants them shipped
as bad or worse than any end user.
Its almost always over a year from when an order is placed to when the knife is actually shipped.
1.5 - 2 yrs is more common. That's one issue that makes spec'ing out special runs so difficult.
What folks want today may not be what they will want in 2015.
That's one of the reasons some sell out in pre-order and others languish.
Either way, its these products that keep me in the hobby.
IMO its the most fun & brings us some of the best knives.
On a side note, I am really looking forward to the CF S90v Large Manix 2 this year.
Do I know when it will be out? No, will I buy a couple and carry one? Yes.
That one has been in the works for one year this month and should be out sometime in 2013.
But I wont know for sure until its in my pocket. :D
Just my 2.

If anyone doesn't want to wait any longer for their knife please let me know and I'll gladly take your place and cover the costs.

Thanks and carry on.

Slash wrote:If anyone doesn't want to wait any longer for their knife please let me know and I'll gladly take your place and cover the costs.

Thanks and carry on.

+1

Just saw this:

http://www.howesknifeshop.com/spyderco- ... 0-handles/

Usually HKS is the first to spill the beans when a release is imminent...

That's great news if the knives are ready to ship.

I saw on the news last night about a cruise ship that had a fire, terrible conditions on board (no working plumbing etc.) had to be towed back to port. If that is the same cruise the KnifeWorks employees were on, I feel sorry for them. It may take awhile for them to get situated and get caught up when the get back to work, hopefully they will have some fresh green PM2's from Spyderco waiting for them when they get back to the store :) .