Spyderco Forums

Whats going on with this thread?

Spyderco puts a super steel in a US made knife at a great price and people are complaining.

Just dont buy it if you think it wont work for you.

Regards this steel in this knife, the following enlightened me:

aaronkb wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:56 pm

As for pairing that with a “low toughness” steel that emphasizes edge retention, the Manix has good ergos for lots of cutting and the stronger tip probably reduces the likelihood of it breaking because accidents happen.

Where are these going to be sold, the TRIPLE B website?

hereiamu1 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:36 pm

Where are these going to be sold, the TRIPLE B website?

Everywhere that normally sells sprint runs.

I don't know if the release is more in 1 week or in 1 month, but I've managed to be tested positive to covid, with symptoms... So if it's in less than a week, I'll be refreshing US dealer like crazy

Bolster wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:55 pm

Regards this steel in this knife, the following enlightened me:

aaronkb wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:56 pm

As for pairing that with a “low toughness” steel that emphasizes edge retention, the Manix has good ergos for lots of cutting and the stronger tip probably reduces the likelihood of it breaking because accidents happen.

I’m flattered and honored! But it only enlightened you if I’m right, so let’s hope I am

hereiamu1 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:36 pm

Where are these going to be sold, the TRIPLE B website?

Several of the major retailers already have it listed but “out of stock,” with the option to sign up to be alerted when it’s available. The more you sign up for the better because they’re likely to drop at different times.

aaronkb wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:54 am

Bolster wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:55 pm

Regards this steel in this knife, the following enlightened me:

aaronkb wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:56 pm

As for pairing that with a “low toughness” steel that emphasizes edge retention, the Manix has good ergos for lots of cutting and the stronger tip probably reduces the likelihood of it breaking because accidents happen.

I’m flattered and honored! But it only enlightened you if I’m right, so let’s hope I am

Geometry, Geometry and Geometry ! I'm pretty sure a stronger tip does not have the same geometry as a needle tip

I love and hate this thread. Before it started I felt like I had some basic steel knowledge. If the edge is the same geometry a tougher knife would take less damage (chipping or rolling) from hitting/cutting something hard and high edge retention well is high edge retention.

But now I see k390 hitting a concrete block, 15v scraping hardwood with no damage while others reporting Elmax, a tougher steel, damaged from similar tests on hardwood.

Don’t get me started on sharpening… you want an ultra fine stone to put a really sharp edge on your knife right… well now it depends if your pull cutting or push cutting… haha.

So let me put this basic question out there is 15v a good EDC steel to cut what ever (within reason) when ever or are there more appropriate choices as 15v is more suitable for cutting softer materials for extended sessions? Or does the steel just not really matter… if edge geometry is “king” that would have more impact on cutting performance than the steel itself.

I don't think there is any correct answer to your question, except depends. What are you cutting? How much are you cutting? What do you sharpen with? How often are you able to sharpen? You will see a lot of opinions on here from people edc'ing H1 to Maxament and all being enjoyed. I think that is why Sal always says all good, just different. I think this steel benefits a lot of people that value high wear resistant steels with good edge stability. Others will prefer something that touches up easily and do not need the extra wear resistance. All good, just different. 15V is not far behind S30V the standard Manix steel in toughness (fracture resistance), but offers significant upgrade in wear resistance and hardness. My guess much better edge stability too. Just something different that excels in something different. All to be enjoyed. And the answer to your question may just be what steel do you enjoy? That ultimately will be the most enjoyable (not best) EDC steel for you.

JSumm wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:42 am

I don't think there is any correct answer to your question, except depends. What are you cutting? How much are you cutting? What do you sharpen with? How often are you able to sharpen? You will see a lot of opinions on here from people edc'ing H1 to Maxament and all being enjoyed. I think that is why Sal always says all good, just different. I think this steel benefits a lot of people that value high wear resistant steels with good edge stability. Others will prefer something that touches up easily and do not need the extra wear resistance. All good, just different. 15V is not far behind S30V the standard Manix steel in toughness (fracture resistance), but offers significant upgrade in wear resistance and hardness. My guess much better edge stability too. Just something different that excels in something different. All to be enjoyed. And the answer to your question may just be what steel do you enjoy? That ultimately will be the most enjoyable (not best) EDC steel for you.

I think you are right, for my benefit I will have to buy all the knives to find out what I like best. Just too many different opinions out there, I will have to take one for the team.

Good points with S30V, I was never a huge fan. It chipped on me a few times and I felt like it never really held an edge well. But then again it could have been my sharpening habits.

Ramonade wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:18 am

aaronkb wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:54 am

Bolster wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:55 pm

Regards this steel in this knife, the following enlightened me:

aaronkb wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:56 pm

As for pairing that with a “low toughness” steel that emphasizes edge retention, the Manix has good ergos for lots of cutting and the stronger tip probably reduces the likelihood of it breaking because accidents happen.

I’m flattered and honored! But it only enlightened you if I’m right, so let’s hope I am

Geometry, Geometry and Geometry ! I'm pretty sure a stronger tip does not have the same geometry as a needle tip

If you hold the two side by side, the PM2 narrows much more dramatically towards the tip! But I can’t honestly tell if you’re agreeing or disagreeing.

WilliamMunny wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:41 am

I love and hate this thread. Before it started I felt like I had some basic steel knowledge. If the edge is the same geometry a tougher knife would take less damage (chipping or rolling) from hitting/cutting something hard and high edge retention well is high edge retention.

But now I see k390 hitting a concrete block, 15v scraping hardwood with no damage while others reporting Elmax, a tougher steel, damaged from similar tests on hardwood.

Don’t get me started on sharpening… you want an ultra fine stone to put a really sharp edge on your knife right… well now it depends if your pull cutting or push cutting… haha.

So let me put this basic question out there is 15v a good EDC steel to cut what ever (within reason) when ever or are there more appropriate choices as 15v is more suitable for cutting softer materials for extended sessions? Or does the steel just not really matter… if edge geometry is “king” that would have more impact on cutting performance than the steel itself.

Toughness is probably the most misunderstood attribute of knife steel (and overrated, IMO). Think of it in terms of how easily you could snap a blade in half if you tried as hard as you could to bend it. It matters if you’re prying, which honestly makes me shudder. Whether a knife edge takes damage in normal use (or even many kinds of abuse) has much more to with strength, and many steels that are thought of as having low toughness are incredibly strong.

Geometry is extremely important, but given identical or similar geometry the steel does matter and based on Shawn’s videos it seems as though 15v can handle most things you could throw at it. Which isn’t the same as handling most things you throw it at. Really, don’t throw your knife and you’ll be alright!

WilliamMunny wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:54 am

JSumm wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:42 am

I don't think there is any correct answer to your question, except depends. What are you cutting? How much are you cutting? What do you sharpen with? How often are you able to sharpen? You will see a lot of opinions on here from people edc'ing H1 to Maxament and all being enjoyed. I think that is why Sal always says all good, just different. I think this steel benefits a lot of people that value high wear resistant steels with good edge stability. Others will prefer something that touches up easily and do not need the extra wear resistance. All good, just different. 15V is not far behind S30V the standard Manix steel in toughness (fracture resistance), but offers significant upgrade in wear resistance and hardness. My guess much better edge stability too. Just something different that excels in something different. All to be enjoyed. And the answer to your question may just be what steel do you enjoy? That ultimately will be the most enjoyable (not best) EDC steel for you.

I think you are right, for my benefit I will have to buy all the knives to find out what I like best. Just too many different opinions out there, I will have to take one for the team.

Good points with S30V, I was never a huge fan. It chipped on me a few times and I felt like it never really held an edge well. But then again it could have been my sharpening habits.

Sharpening is everything, and even if you buy a lot of knives before finding the best knife and steel combo for you, it sadly won't apply to anybody else but you !
We all use our knives differently for different tasks, and sharpen differently ! The number of factors going in between buying a knife and then liking it or not is so big that it is almost impossible to give objective feedback to help people in their choice.

Ramonade wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:22 am

WilliamMunny wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:54 am

JSumm wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:42 am

I don't think there is any correct answer to your question, except depends. What are you cutting? How much are you cutting? What do you sharpen with? How often are you able to sharpen? You will see a lot of opinions on here from people edc'ing H1 to Maxament and all being enjoyed. I think that is why Sal always says all good, just different. I think this steel benefits a lot of people that value high wear resistant steels with good edge stability. Others will prefer something that touches up easily and do not need the extra wear resistance. All good, just different. 15V is not far behind S30V the standard Manix steel in toughness (fracture resistance), but offers significant upgrade in wear resistance and hardness. My guess much better edge stability too. Just something different that excels in something different. All to be enjoyed. And the answer to your question may just be what steel do you enjoy? That ultimately will be the most enjoyable (not best) EDC steel for you.

I think you are right, for my benefit I will have to buy all the knives to find out what I like best. Just too many different opinions out there, I will have to take one for the team.

Good points with S30V, I was never a huge fan. It chipped on me a few times and I felt like it never really held an edge well. But then again it could have been my sharpening habits.

Sharpening is everything, and even if you buy a lot of knives before finding the best knife and steel combo for you, it sadly won't apply to anybody else but you !
We all use our knives differently for different tasks, and sharpen differently ! The number of factors going in between buying a knife and then liking it or not is so big that it is almost impossible to give objective feedback to help people in their choice.

It is amazing how many different steels there are on opposite sides of the spectrum that people swear by. I am always just trying to learn more, now going down the rabbit hole of “Toughness”.

Below is a neat video on a S30V Shaman chipping Chen it cut this thin plastic/wire ties used to hold toys in package. Regardless of edge geometry is that an indication of low “toughness” or more of a reflection of low strength and hardness? Because this is something I want my steel to cut on the rare occasion with less chance of damage.

Damage and tie down shown at 2:15 minute mark.

https://youtu.be/gn3aDv3jpJU

Looks like he is applying lateral force to the edge. Lateral force to an edge can cause damage to a lot of steels. If you watch Shawn's video, you will notice he is doing a similar experiment in scraping the hard wood applying lateral force. Even though S30V is on paper "tougher" it is taking more damage. Other factors like hardness and chemistry are most likely playing a big part of this. Also, Shawn mentioned earlier sharpening angles. You can make an edge more resistant to damage by increasing the angle at which it is sharpened. Of course you will lose some cutting performance. Have to decide what is most important to you and works well for your uses.

Sounds like you are looking for good edge stability. Two steels I enjoy are LC200N and K390. LC200N which is significantly "tougher" or fracture resistant, is much softer too and will tend to roll at the edge if encountering other hard objects. In my experience, K390 much harder comes out better when encountering hard objects at the edge.

This is a good read from Larrin at Knife Steel Nerds. You will also see in "toughness" or fracture resistance, S30V is just slightly ahead of 15V, but with heat treatment they can be a world apart at the edge. Add in the sharpening angle and you have completely different experience with the same steel.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/ ... esistance/

Sometimes I wonder if people understand how to cut certain materials properly, to avoid edge damage. I've seen guys at work using knives and cut things at very odd angles that make it much more difficult and also allows the possibility of damage to the edge.

VooDooChild wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:55 pm

Whats going on with this thread?

Spyderco puts a super steel in a US made knife at a great price and people are complaining.

Just dont buy it if you think it wont work for you.

Yea, there's a lot of surprising twists going on in here. Strange. This is a pretty amazing offering, not sure how or why there's plots of negativity throughout it.

As long as it leaves one for me...

WilliamMunny wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:39 am

It is amazing how many different steels there are on opposite sides of the spectrum that people swear by. I am always just trying to learn more, now going down the rabbit hole of “Toughness”.

Below is a neat video on a S30V Shaman chipping Chen it cut this thin plastic/wire ties used to hold toys in package. Regardless of edge geometry is that an indication of low “toughness” or more of a reflection of low strength and hardness? Because this is something I want my steel to cut on the rare occasion with less chance of damage.

Damage and tie down shown at 2:15 minute mark.

https://youtu.be/gn3aDv3jpJU

I join Jsumm in his message ! And just to puzzle you even more : I have cut worst stuff with S110V and got no damage

As JSumm said, inducing lateral force in your cut is totally different than just pushing the apex of the edge right through the material you need to cut. The person is talking about how he cut the wires in this video. And he's implying some sort of twisting motion. This kind of motion is more akin to leverage than cutting, that must be the reason the chips occured.