Spyderco Forums

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:54 am

ol_lukey wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:22 am

I threw my wallet at my computer when i saw the endela. looks to be the perfect size and the little bit of extra belly will be nice as well. I'll take 8

Me too!Look like my dream knife finally arrived.I just hope they'll have colors,so i can justify buying way more than i need :)

[Just realized: This is my thousandst post on this forum... :) ]

I also think the Endela has the perfect size. And I also hope for colors, I want a blue one.. :)

Only very minor disappointment: Much like on the Delica (and other than on the Endura), the blade does not really extend to the end of the handle when the knife is closed (see the video at aboout 0:20 minutes) So there is "wasted space" and the blade could be longer while keeping the exact same closed size. OR the knife could be made shorter when closed and so shorter when carried, while keeping the blade length as it is.

I guess reason is to stay withing certain blade length limits, so that the Endela is legal to carry in more areas, and I fully understand that! Still, I personally would have wished for a blade as long as possible (or, alternatively, for a shorter overall knife). Maybe, just maybe, they´ll go that way in the final production version-- ?!

That’s not wasted space, bro. The ricasso on this series is perfect. You can put a finger there just like a choil, you can let it drop on your finger safely to close one handed, and I definitely prefer them that way.

Oops, I misunderstood you. :o :p I see what you mean, but still, a little more handle feels good. You can move around on it. I hold my Delica wharnie all kinds of ways at work.

Jazz wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:47 am

That’s not wasted space, bro. The ricasso on this series is perfect. You can put a finger there just like a choil, you can let it drop on your finger safely to close one handed, and I definitely prefer them that way.

Oops, I misunderstood you. :o :p I see what you mean, but still, a little more handle feels good. You can move around on it. I hold my Delica wharnie all kinds of ways at work.

yeah, seems you misunderstood me initially or I did not make my point clearly.. The more so, as I am always emphasizing, that the Endura-/Delica Ricasso can be used with no problem almost like a regular choil. I do this all the time, it is not uncomfortable or feeling unsafe (as you finger even is not really pushing upwards on the Ricasso when cutting but pushing back at the front side of the "guard" on the front side of the handle).
And the Delica-/Endura - Ricasso has an advantage over a 50/50 choil in that your hand is placed closer to the edge when you hold the knife in a regular (not choked up) grip.

What I meant and you perfectly understood eventually is that the blade could be longer overall (while KEEPING the Ricasso) cause the handle offered the space for that when the blade is folded inside of it. And you´re totally right: A little more handle feels good! BUT: Still that "good feeling handle" could house a longer blade...

I could like the Endela as well.

Hi Warstein,

Lock types make a big difference in that space between the edge and the front of the handle. Plus there are also many other factors that influence. The "Rock Jumper" model (not out yet) does address this concept in another way.

Models like the Caribbean bring the edge to the handle because we can do that with the Compression lock.

I've always tried to teach that "blades are for cutting", "handles are for holding". Trying to put as much blade as one can in a given handle is not always the most effective. A scalpel would not work better with longer blade or a shorter handle. The handle needs to provide control, comfort and purchase, regardless of the blade length. Blade to handle ratio is more of an "Eye" thing than a "function" thing.

sal

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:27 am

Hi Warstein,

Lock types make a big difference in that space between the edge and the front of the handle. Plus there are also many other factors that influence. The "Rock Jumper" model (not out yet) does address this concept in another way.

Models like the Caribbean bring the edge to the handle because we can do that with the Compression lock.

I've always tried to teach that "blades are for cutting", "handles are for holding". Trying to put as much blade as one can in a given handle is not always the most effective. A scalpel would not work better with longer blade or a shorter handle. The handle needs to provide control, comfort and purchase, regardless of the blade length. Blade to handle ratio is more of an "Eye" thing than a "function" thing.

sal

Hi Sal,

thanks a lot for the explanation! And the "scalpel"-example is a very good one, I understand what you mean and you are right. I know it is somehow a quite "nerdy" thing that I always like as much blade as possible in a given handle length, and it has nothing to do with function...

But I think I again did not manage to make clear what I meant: That would be: When the knife is closed, there is space towards the BACK/REAR end of the handle which is not filled by the blade. To give examples: Chaparral: When you close the knife, the tip of the blade almost reaches the rear end of the handle, and thus the blade is as long as possible. Delica/Stretch 2: There is some space left between the tip and the rear end of the handle when the knife is closed, thus the blade COULD be longer...

So in the light of that fact the blade of the Endela could be made longer, not in that the Ricasso would be made narrower.
I am fully aware of, that a traditional lockback knife does need some "kick" or "Ricasso" to function properly.

Anyway, the Endela is a great knife, and one am really eagerly awaiting... :)

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:27 am

Hi Warstein,

Lock types make a big difference in that space between the edge and the front of the handle. Plus there are also many other factors that influence. The "Rock Jumper" model (not out yet) does address this concept in another way.

Models like the Caribbean bring the edge to the handle because we can do that with the Compression lock.

I've always tried to teach that "blades are for cutting", "handles are for holding". Trying to put as much blade as one can in a given handle is not always the most effective. A scalpel would not work better with longer blade or a shorter handle. The handle needs to provide control, comfort and purchase, regardless of the blade length. Blade to handle ratio is more of an "Eye" thing than a "function" thing.

sal

D'oh! This explains why I keep complaining to my doctor about bloody palms.

Thanks for sharing Wouter.

Hopefully these models go well with the market.

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:27 am

I've always tried to teach that "blades are for cutting", "handles are for holding". Trying to put as much blade as one can in a given handle is not always the most effective.
sal

I've never bought into the "longest blade that will fit into the handle" mantra myself. Case in point: My Sage 2 with 3" blade has just enough handle to get a good four-finger purchase on (behind the choil). It's a well-balanced knife.

The Native 5 has the same length blade, but the handle is a bit short for a full grip behind the choil. "Better" blade/handle ratio, worse functional design (for me).

That’s how I view the para3, my current favorite. Long enough blade, longer handle with a variety of holding options. It does happen to look proportional to my aesthetic too.

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:57 am

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:27 am

Hi Warstein,

Lock types make a big difference in that space between the edge and the front of the handle. Plus there are also many other factors that influence. The "Rock Jumper" model (not out yet) does address this concept in another way.

Models like the Caribbean bring the edge to the handle because we can do that with the Compression lock.

I've always tried to teach that "blades are for cutting", "handles are for holding". Trying to put as much blade as one can in a given handle is not always the most effective. A scalpel would not work better with longer blade or a shorter handle. The handle needs to provide control, comfort and purchase, regardless of the blade length. Blade to handle ratio is more of an "Eye" thing than a "function" thing.

sal

Hi Sal,

thanks a lot for the explanation! And the "scalpel"-example is a very good one, I understand what you mean and you are right. I know it is somehow a quite "nerdy" thing that I always like as much blade as possible in a given handle length, and it has nothing to do with function...

But I think I again did not manage to make clear what I meant: That would be: When the knife is closed, there is space towards the BACK/REAR end of the handle which is not filled by the blade. To give examples: Chaparral: When you close the knife, the tip of the blade almost reaches the rear end of the handle, and thus the blade is as long as possible. Delica/Stretch 2: There is some space left between the tip and the rear end of the handle when the knife is closed, thus the blade COULD be longer...

So in the light of that fact the blade of the Endela could be made longer, not in that the Ricasso would be made narrower.
I am fully aware of, that a traditional lockback knife does need some "kick" or "Ricasso" to function properly.

Anyway, the Endela is a great knife, and one am really eagerly awaiting... :)

Hi Warstein,

If I may again share some of my thoughts? Also please keep in mind that I have been incrementally refining the Delica since 1990 and the Stretch since 1984. In both cases, the blade length was created to meet a legal requirement, (3.0" Delica and 3.5" Stretch) but the handle shrunk to match the handle was too small for many of my customers' hands. I hardly ever do anything in any of my models without specific thought and reason. In most cases, I'm happy to share those reasons. If something in a design is really ugly, I may consider that, That's why some say I "design in the dark". but models like the P'Kal are just not eye appealing and I wouldn't change a thing. A while back a customer coined a new word and said that my designs are just plain "fugly".

In the case of the Endela, the 3.5" blade length is a tad short of filling the handle (about 7mm). The handle 7mm shorter would not work to the best "function" and the blade any longer would be illegal in many jurisdictions. I hope that doesn't kill the model for you?

sal

I love this about Spyderco: normally the handle is long enough to actually be functional and comfortable for any given blade length. I do not at all ascribe to the blade and handle ratio, which I consider to be nonsense. Some other companies rely on this as a sales tool and I do not buy their knives, usually, because there is simply not enough room to comfortably grip the handle.

pinepig2 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:26 pm

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:27 am

I've always tried to teach that "blades are for cutting", "handles are for holding". Trying to put as much blade as one can in a given handle is not always the most effective.
sal

I've never bought into the "longest blade that will fit into the handle" mantra myself. Case in point: My Sage 2 with 3" blade has just enough handle to get a good four-finger purchase on (behind the choil). It's a well-balanced knife.

The Native 5 has the same length blade, but the handle is a bit short for a full grip behind the choil. "Better" blade/handle ratio, worse functional design (for me).

This is why I do not like the Native 5. The only reason, in fact. The handle is too short.

Did you see any CPM-3V folders at the show??? Another infamous knife company has pre-orders up for a new 3V folder. Someone seriously needs to do a Native CPM-3V exclusive and soon! We saw two different Spyderco 4V folders last year and now this other company is releasing a PRODUCTION :eek: CPM-3V folder. Last year was also the year of the CRUWEAR NATION. Hopefully this is a sign that these steels will see some love in the coming months and years.

As someone with larger hands, the delica has unfortunately always been too small to comfortably grip. The endura is much better, but having something under 3.5 should be 'just right'.

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:33 pm

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:57 am

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:27 am

Hi Warstein,

If I may again share some of my thoughts? Also please keep in mind that I have been incrementally refining the Delica since 1990 and the Stretch since 1984. In both cases, the blade length was created to meet a legal requirement, (3.0" Delica and 3.5" Stretch) but the handle shrunk to match the handle was too small for many of my customers' hands. I hardly ever do anything in any of my models without specific thought and reason. In most cases, I'm happy to share those reasons. If something in a design is really ugly, I may consider that, That's why some say I "design in the dark". but models like the P'Kal are just not eye appealing and I wouldn't change a thing. A while back a customer coined a new word and said that my designs are just plain "fugly".

In the case of the Endela, the 3.5" blade length is a tad short of filling the handle (about 7mm). The handle 7mm shorter would not work to the best "function" and the blade any longer would be illegal in many jurisdictions. I hope that doesn't kill the model for you?

sal

Hi Sal,

Nothing better than you sharing some thoughts! And I hope I may share some of mine:

- Firstly, concerning "designing in the dark": I absolutely love your designs. I once did a thread in which I stated, that I just realized, that my top 5 favorite folders (of all brands) were designed by Sal Glesser. And, with exception of the Shaman, that was true long before I even have heard of you, who you are and that you actually design knives (I carry, use and love Spydercos for quite some time now but only very much later I became interested in background and history of the brand). So, just plainly using knives you designed convinced me, without any further information.

- As for "blade filling the handle (as much as possible)": That has two aspects for me:

One is practical and true for smaller knives: I personally have a lower limit when it comes to actual cutting edge of at least 3 " (so EDGE not BLADElength)
I don´t want my main Edc knives edges to be shorter. So for example in the Delica I´d like the blade filling the handle to the full extent, it would be even more functional for me then (that´s not to say I would not like the Delica - I do!!)

The other is purely esthetic and very silly: I just think it looks better when a blade fills the handle as much as possible when the knife is closed. That has no practical implication at all, as long as the edge is at least 3 " anyway...

So: There is NO WAY that the a tad "shorter-as-it-could-be" blade of the Endela will "kill" that model for me!!
As I´ve already stated in a previous post: That´s a really VERY minor issue, since the edge is still long enough for my likings.
I totally understand that it is necessary to meet legal requirements so that the knife will sell better and more people will have the chance to actually carry and enjoy it.

Actually there is a very good chance the Endela will be the perfect knife for me and I can´t wait till it will be released... :)

Wow! Endela, D'fly wharcliffe and Native Chief are all must haves (though I'll likely hold out for a different steel in the NC)... Thought I had all the Spydercos I "needed" already, but it seems I was wrong!

Recap of Wouter's fine work:

Continued:

Awesome idea, Nick. Better than flipping all over the place. I like the second, fifth, and maybe third.