Agreed, if you have any OCD tendencies, this one to skip. No insult meant. As car guys say, this one is all go, little show.
Ha, I like this, I for one am wayyy OCD and I wouldn’t change one thing on this knife!
I **think** I like the clip on my original C60 a little better, but I’m over that! This one was definitely meant to be used!
Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:32 am
by Evil D
It wouldn't have hurt my feelings if they used the same clip as the original, but changing to the modern clip screw pattern at least gives people the option to use custom clips, so it was a smart choice. I really like that they incorporated the lanyard hole with the clip vs setting the clip off to the side somewhere.
Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:06 pm
by Michal O
Original was also compatibile with Benchmade clips. If it was same style like in old Police.
Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:54 pm
by Spyder & I
Replaced clip with standard spoon stripped of black coating. Looks more uniform, imo
Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:57 pm
by TheGiant80
Arrived this morning. This thing rules! I actually said "Interesting!" out loud when I got the knife in-hand and felt the negative angle of the design. Great shape, good weight, excellent balance, etc. I even like the look and feel of the G10. I'm in the minority when I say backlocks are my favorite, and this one is no slouch. Directly into the pocket it goes!
Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:24 pm
by JSNV
Very happy with my SE version! I’m LE in Canada and will have many use cases for it including EDC. The g10 and amazing ergos really suit this beautiful Cruwear steal and Ayoob design. Thank you Spyderco, JP Spydo and David for all the analysis and feedback. I want to get a PE as soon as I can find one.
House of knives has both versions "coming soon" still
Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:21 pm
by Evil D
I've been browsing back on this thread on and off reading all the past responses and besides a landslide demand for a SE version, I think probably the second most requested variation was for a rust proof Salt version. It's probably unlikely given how much of a challenge it sounds like it was to get this sprint done, but I really think a Salt version has selling potential, especially if it could somehow be done before the hype of this sprint dies down. I could see an all blacked out H1 Salt version being a major hit. Being a SE design, a blacked out stealth version just makes sense, and H1 works so well with serrations, I think the demand would be there.
Sharpening SE? -
Can someone recommend a video showing the best available technique of sharpening the Spyderedge? (Specifically this knife with a TriAngle if possible, or recommend a good SE specific system). Im liking the SE so much I think this will take over as my EDC if I can get comfortable sharpening it, but I have zero SE sharpening experience and this intimidates me considering the SE is still at full laser status from the factory. Once it dulls slightly I'll feel better about taking a stab at sharpening it
Clips -
I put the standard spyderco Lynch Clip on mine and the standard clip fits nicely. I reused the factory screws - didnt bother
trying the Lynch screws which others have said do not fit.
I like this knife a LOT more with the lynch clip. 1, I love deep carry. Everything should be deep carry. (I hate the regular clip i have found) 2, the factory clip was so tight it is hard to slid in my back pocket or waistband - the lynch clip is secure without impeding draw or pocketing. Could be even a tad lighter like a wire clip, but its ok as is. 3, the clip is around 0.4" (10mm) shorter which I like.
Overall I highly recommend the Lynch Standard Spyderco Deep Carry clip. (I got bead blast and its slightly lighter than the handle, I'm also getting Sandblast which should be almost the same color as the G10). I highly recommend this mod.
SE vs PE -
After comparing the SE to the PE, the SE wins in this blade. THe SE would confetti paper out of the box. The PE cant push cut. Im not concerned about that - I'll have a friend reprofile it to 18-20* in a little bit and expect its laser factor to increase significantly, but in general, IMO, this knife wants to be serrated and is more true to its design intent ("That knife looks like it will F you up" as a friend recently said).
Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:23 pm
by cabfrank
SE is actually easier to sharpen than PE, on the Sharpmaker. Check out the video online, and search some of Evil D and vivi's posts. It's a breeze. I get better results with SE consistently.
Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:26 pm
by cabfrank
As far as this design, it is great, and the love it keeps being shown, page after page, proves it. I think it's not for me, but the Salt version D described would probably change my mind. I think it is unlikely to happen though.
Re: Massad Ayoob Cruwear vs Original comparison pics
I hadn't even realized the newer model is less pointy / had a different profile tip to the original until you mentioned it.
I wonder what inspired that change?
Probably has something to do with the hollow grinding process and wheel. None of the ones I've handled have perfectly symmetrical blade grinds (including my original). Maybe this is just how my examples are? I wonder how the plain edges differ.
Hmmm, no I mean comparing the blade profile of the Ayoob 1.0 Serrated vs the 3.0, the new model has a different blade shape - the 3.0 is 'taller/broader' towards the tip at the point where the blade transitions from PE to SE:
Somewhat reminiscent of the difference blade shape used for the Manbug vs the Ladybug.
To me that change in blade shape seems like a subtle but conscious design change.
I'm glad they thickened the tip. I obviously LOVE Spyderco's line of self defense knives, and carry one daily. (IMO)Thin tips are a flaw with many of them. Even my favorite, the P'kal. I know everything is a trade off, and Spyderco leans heavy into cutting being the number one priority. On a utility knife I completely agree. On a defense knife I would prioritize a strong tip/piercing ability first, cutting second. The Ayoob model seems to follow my priorities.
Which isn't to say the P'kal, Matriarch, Yojimbo, etc. don't/can't function, I mean obviously I don't think that as I edc a P'kal, but they could be better.
I think for both SD and fine Utility tasks, you want a tip thats as thin and razor sharp as possible while maintaining stiffness (ie wont flex or bend on impact like a cheap steak knife). That was a major goal of the Fairbairn Skyes dagger, among others, a needle sharp thin tip.
The P'kal is a great example - I've effortlessly cut myself by accident with mine. And if they stuck the Pkal blade into a regular grip handle, I think it would be a superb utility knife.
Where a thicker tip would shine is in rough use, professional utility capacity such as that for LEO's and Military, where the knife may be employed for non knife tasks (poking into things, light prying / jimmying.) The current Ayoob 3.0 thick tip could make for a better 'cops knife', where the blade is just as likely to be used to shim a spring loaded gate latch or jimmy open a suspected 'trap' in a vehicle search.
I met a cop who had actually deliberately ground off the tip of his knife into a 1/4" sharpened flathead screwdriver profile for exactly that reason - to make it better for light prying and scraping off old vehicle registration tags. As a knife nerd I was appalled but that was undeniably practical for him.
With the thick tip, Cruwear, and rock solid backlock, the Ayoob 3.0 seems very tough.
Re: Massad Ayoob Cruwear vs Original comparison pics
I hadn't even realized the newer model is less pointy / had a different profile tip to the original until you mentioned it.
I wonder what inspired that change?
Probably has something to do with the hollow grinding process and wheel. None of the ones I've handled have perfectly symmetrical blade grinds (including my original). Maybe this is just how my examples are? I wonder how the plain edges differ.
Still learning the trade is what I took from what Sal had shared. The maker got way more right than wrong, but I went with PE as the SE was going to bug me.
I'm stoked off the SE as I have a solid supply of the PE Ayoobs from the previous G1O sprint, and have really wanted a SE Ayoob with a G10 handle (my Alumite Ayoob 1.0 is just too pretty and slick to carry.)
But the SE pattern is definitely not for the 'perfect at heart' - I've got 4x of the new SE from 3 different vendors, and each one is ground a little different, none perfect.
I think for both SD and fine Utility tasks, you want a tip thats as thin and razor sharp as possible while maintaining stiffness (ie wont flex or bend on impact like a cheap steak knife). That was a major goal of the Fairbairn Skyes dagger, among others, a needle sharp thin tip.
....................
I own a Fairbairn Sykes Dagger. The tip is bent Any SD knife is likely to encounter bone, I like robust tips that can handle that without deforming or breaking.
I've heard people rationalize weak tips by saying well if you break a knife tip off on someone's bone they won't be a threat anymore. I think thats wishful thinking. You HOPE they're not a threat anymore, you hope they don't have accomplices. Criminals often attack in groups of two or more. The kind of disparity of force situation a knife or gun would be ideal for.
Can a knife with a broken tip still function? Yes. A dull screwdriver can function. But does it function at 100%? Definitely not. Why do they sell knives with sharp edges and pointy tips? Because they work better than dull edges blunt tips. Given the choice, I would choose a blade that won't fail under extreme use.
In my testing a more robust tip doesn't have to hinder penetration if the blade is designed correctly. Compare the geometry of the P'kal to the Emerson Elvia. The P'kal has a slight advantage on slicing, but for a tip centric design on both, I prefer the geometry of the Elvia.
I think for both SD and fine Utility tasks, you want a tip thats as thin and razor sharp as possible while maintaining stiffness (ie wont flex or bend on impact like a cheap steak knife). That was a major goal of the Fairbairn Skyes dagger, among others, a needle sharp thin tip.
....................
I own a Fairbairn Sykes Dagger. The tip is bent Any SD knife is likely to encounter bone, I like robust tips that can handle that without deforming or breaking.
I've heard people rationalize weak tips by saying well if you break a knife tip off on someone's bone they won't be a threat anymore. I think thats wishful thinking. You HOPE they're not a threat anymore, you hope they don't have accomplices. Criminals often attack in groups of two or more. The kind of disparity of force situation a knife or gun would be ideal for.
Can a knife with a broken tip still function? Yes. A dull screwdriver can function. But does it function at 100%? Definitely not. Why do they sell knives with sharp edges and pointy tips? Because they work better than dull edges blunt tips. Given the choice, I would choose a blade that won't fail under extreme use.
In my testing a more robust tip doesn't have to hinder penetration if the blade is designed correctly. Compare the geometry of the P'kal to the Emerson Elvia. The P'kal has a slight advantage on slicing, but for a tip centric design on both, I prefer the geometry of the Elvia.
Spydercos thin tips are a lot more robust then one would imagine; heres the pretty thin tipped police 4 being stabbed into a concrete block without the tip snapping or really deforming.
That said, the thick tipped Ayoob is comfortingly durable.
I think for both SD and fine Utility tasks, you want a tip thats as thin and razor sharp as possible while maintaining stiffness (ie wont flex or bend on impact like a cheap steak knife). That was a major goal of the Fairbairn Skyes dagger, among others, a needle sharp thin tip.
....................
I own a Fairbairn Sykes Dagger. The tip is bent Any SD knife is likely to encounter bone, I like robust tips that can handle that without deforming or breaking.
I've heard people rationalize weak tips by saying well if you break a knife tip off on someone's bone they won't be a threat anymore. I think thats wishful thinking. You HOPE they're not a threat anymore, you hope they don't have accomplices. Criminals often attack in groups of two or more. The kind of disparity of force situation a knife or gun would be ideal for.
Can a knife with a broken tip still function? Yes. A dull screwdriver can function. But does it function at 100%? Definitely not. Why do they sell knives with sharp edges and pointy tips? Because they work better than dull edges blunt tips. Given the choice, I would choose a blade that won't fail under extreme use.
In my testing a more robust tip doesn't have to hinder penetration if the blade is designed correctly. Compare the geometry of the P'kal to the Emerson Elvia. The P'kal has a slight advantage on slicing, but for a tip centric design on both, I prefer the geometry of the Elvia.
Spydercos thin tips are a lot more robust then one would imagine; heres the pretty thin tipped police 4 being stabbed into a concrete block without the tip snapping or really deforming.
That said, the thick tipped Ayoob is comfortingly durable.
That was the video that made me want to try the Police 4. As a utility knife.
Re: C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:29 pm
by Michal O
On some facebook group, someone posted vintage PIG. Serrations looks like in new Ayoob. I saved picture, but don't remember from which group and who was autor.
Very happy with my SE version! I’m LE in Canada and will have many use cases for it including EDC. The g10 and amazing ergos really suit this beautiful Cruwear steal and Ayoob design. Thank you Spyderco, JP Spydo and David for all the analysis and feedback. I want to get a PE as soon as I can find one.
Notice that serration pattern ends with the large tooth. The ayoob ends with 2 small teeth.
The larger tooth seems more natural after seeing that. Otherwise Very similar grind indeed
Any SD knife is likely to encounter bone, I like robust tips that can handle that without deforming or breaking. 