Thoughts on Ankerson's cut testing results

[3rdGenRigger]

And thanks to you I'll likely end up with a Southfork (I convinced a friend to buy one a while ago). The Seratta was higher on my list because I see it as being a better camping/survival oriented knife, but the Southfork would definitely be better in the kitchen, and it's moving it's way up my list, getting closer to the top every day. And maybe a Pacific Salt too...we'll see.

I have had daydreams about a sprint run Southfork in Cruwear. That might deserve its own thread though.

ZOMG...I hadn't thought of that for some reason, but I DEFINITELY NEED one now. With either white or grey polished G10 handles...I might never use another knife in the kitchen ever again if that existed.

[Ankerson]

On a side note, with all the push cutting and draw cutting discussion (which I just got lost as to what was actually being discussed) what type of cutting is sticking your knife between a zip tie and box that it is wrapped around and then pull straight up? When I do it, there is usually no slicing at all, just a pressure until the tie breaks. That has got to be pretty rough on an edge.

Exactly, except I do it with pallet straps and slicing open cardboard for hours. I'm wondering what kind of steel does that the best. I'm betting cruwear or one of those types, but I haven't tried it yet.

I used to have a job that I did exactly the same thing and for almost 3 decades so I used a variety of knives over the years.

The knife I liked using the most and carried the most lately was the plain old Spyderco Military in S30V, it covered everything just fine IMO.

Yeah, zip ties, just put some pressure on them until they snap or rock the blade if there is some backing, either one works fine, pallet straps are easy, slice right through them like butter.

[3rdGenRigger]

I've been using S30V knives to cut TyRaps for years (It's my most carried steel and in more of my knives than any other), but CruWear has become my favourite for the task ever since I got my CruWear Millie.

[Ankerson]

I've been using S30V knives to cut TyRaps for years (It's my most carried steel and in more of my knives than any other), but CruWear has become my favourite for the task ever since I got my CruWear Millie.

I can see that. :)

Thinking back over the years I went from using knives that I would have to sharpen 3 or 4 times a shift or more to knives that I might have to touch up once a week maybe.

[3rdGenRigger]

I'd wager CruWear holds up better than S30V cutting TyRaps due to the higher apex stability and toughness...I've been contemplating picking up an S30V Millie for a direct comparison and cutting test of TyRaps or similar. Might take me a little while, but it's an idea that's been rattling around my brain for some time now.

[Ankerson]

I'd wager CruWear holds up better than S30V cutting TyRaps due to the higher apex stability and toughness...I've been contemplating picking up an S30V Millie for a direct comparison and cutting test of TyRaps or similar. Might take me a little while, but it's an idea that's been rattling around my brain for some time now.

Something you would have to figure out over time I am guessing.

[MacLaren]

I've been using S30V knives to cut TyRaps for years (It's my most carried steel and in more of my knives than any other), but CruWear has become my favourite for the task ever since I got my CruWear Millie.

I can see that. :)

Thinking back over the years I went from using knives that I would have to sharpen 3 or 4 times a shift or more to knives that I might have to touch up once a week maybe.

That's pretty awesome....

[Ankerson]

I've been using S30V knives to cut TyRaps for years (It's my most carried steel and in more of my knives than any other), but CruWear has become my favourite for the task ever since I got my CruWear Millie.

I can see that. :)

Thinking back over the years I went from using knives that I would have to sharpen 3 or 4 times a shift or more to knives that I might have to touch up once a week maybe.

That's pretty awesome....

We have come a very long way in steels over the years from what i have seen. :)

Right Now we are in prime times and I believe we are better off than we have ever been with the choices we have to choose from.

I think CPM 4V is going to be the ticket though from what I have seen so far from it, but only time will tell I suppose.

[3rdGenRigger]

Just a gut feeling I've gotten over the last year or so after having put CruWear to some use...the thick heavy duty TyRaps are definitely hard on an edge and S30V works really well, but I think CruWear does just that little bit better due to the extra apex stability. Again, just a gut feeling from my own uses. I don't have an S30V Millie but I've use a lot of S30V in other platforms (Including ones with similar geometry like the PM2), though having said that I now want an S30V Millie to do more direct comparison. I know for a fact that if I was cutting up a LOT of clean cardboard I'd rather have S30V or another high Vanadium steel instead of CruWear...a decade of using S30V leaves a lot of impression and it's still IMO one of the best steels ever from a value-performance standpoint and a phenomenal steel overall, but for certain tasks I feel that CruWear will hold up better.

[Ankerson]

Just a gut feeling I've gotten over the last year or so after having put CruWear to some use...the thick heavy duty TyRaps are definitely hard on an edge and S30V works really well, but I think CruWear does just that little bit better due to the extra apex stability. Again, just a gut feeling from my own uses. I don't have an S30V Millie but I've use a lot of S30V in other platforms (Including ones with similar geometry like the PM2), though having said that I now want an S30V Millie to do more direct comparison. I know for a fact that if I was cutting up a LOT of clean cardboard I'd rather have S30V or another high Vanadium steel instead of CruWear...a decade of using S30V leaves a lot of impression and it's still IMO one of the best steels ever from a value-performance standpoint and a phenomenal steel overall, but for certain tasks I feel that CruWear will hold up better.

I think it's the hardness level of the Cruwear that could be helping it some as S30V is generally in the 59-60 range and Cruwear will be somewhat higher.

S30V tends to roll some from my experience with it over the years so i think you might be right.

[nccole]

And thanks to you I'll likely end up with a Southfork (I convinced a friend to buy one a while ago). The Seratta was higher on my list because I see it as being a better camping/survival oriented knife, but the Southfork would definitely be better in the kitchen, and it's moving it's way up my list, getting closer to the top every day. And maybe a Pacific Salt too...we'll see.

I have had daydreams about a sprint run Southfork in Cruwear. That might deserve its own thread though.

You played with a Manix 2 yet? I will just leave this here. (SB is probably my favorite slicey steel btw)

[Bodog]

I think CPM 4V is going to be the ticket though from what I have seen so far from it, but only time will tell I suppose.

I believe you're right as far as pushing the limits of what's considered a "well rounded" steel. I called that and Vanadis 4E awhile back, based on the scant info I could find. Finding a custom maker in the US that can get V4E is a ***** and the others willing to work with 4V either dropped the ball or worked in a different style than what I wanted.

So we're not too far off on what we believe makes a well balanced steel after all.

Now what about this spectrumwear?

http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/zdata-b ... ecWear.htm" target="_blank

[3rdGenRigger]

Some people claim it will chip and I've seen that a few times (Cutting through some pretty dirty and awful stuff, and being dropped onto a hard surface), but overall I've seen it roll much more frequently. I'm not sure what the hardness difference between Spyderco S30V and CruWear is, and they both are excellent steels, but I think CruWear is better at certain tasks, just as S30V is better at certain tasks.

Gotta love choices!

[3rdGenRigger]

And thanks to you I'll likely end up with a Southfork (I convinced a friend to buy one a while ago). The Seratta was higher on my list because I see it as being a better camping/survival oriented knife, but the Southfork would definitely be better in the kitchen, and it's moving it's way up my list, getting closer to the top every day. And maybe a Pacific Salt too...we'll see.

I have had daydreams about a sprint run Southfork in Cruwear. That might deserve its own thread though.

You played with a Manix 2 yet? I will just leave this here. (SB is probably my favorite slicey steel btw)

Not sure if that's directed at myself or Lance (He doesn't have any CruWear yet)...but in my case I can say "Yes" (And the blue on my Manix is from sweating with it in my jeans pocket). And SuperBlue is the most easily sharpening steel in my collection thus far and takes the keenest edge...but it's not as corrosion resistant as CruWear, and I think that at work (Construction) I'd rather have CruWear than SuperBlue. I still carry my SB Stretch at work though and enjoy it thoroughly on a regular basis...it is a GREAT slicey steel.

[Ankerson]

I think CPM 4V is going to be the ticket though from what I have seen so far from it, but only time will tell I suppose.

I believe you're right as far as pushing the limits of what's considered a "well rounded" steel. I called that and Vanadis 4E awhile back, based on the scant info I could find. Finding a custom maker in the US that can get V4E is a ***** and the others willing to work with 4V either dropped the ball or worked in a different style than what I wanted.

So we're not too far off on what we believe makes a well balanced steel after all.

Now what about this spectrumwear?

http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/zdata-b ... ecWear.htm" target="_blank

I think 4V is coming, the more people that work with it and hit the HT right getting it hard enough in the 63-64 range will be happy. Not worth the effort keeping it below that range as it loses a lot of performance from my testing and it can take quite a lot in the 63-64 range in the more normal .020" to .025" behind the edge thickness. I tested it at the .008" range and 63 and it did very well, the maker got the knife back and beat it really hard before he could get it to fail at that hardness and thickness ranges. So with 4V it can be ran hard without much of an issue if makers want to use it.

V4E and 4V are very close.

Dunno about that all that much.

[The Mastiff]

This class of steel has really taken off. Maybe when Gerber was using it in 82-86 (Vascowear) as "V"steel it was just before it's time and sharpening equipment.

I agree with Jim that 4V, like CPM Cruwear/PD#1 is at it's best for cutlery when hardened fairly hot and run decently high ( over rc 62 but below rc 64) 62.5to 63.5 is just right, with Cryo.

I've not heard of or tried the "spectrumwear" yet. Some of the vanadium is replaced with tungsten. Looks to be ingot, ESR. Should work good and be fairly easy to heat treat.

Joe

[Surfingringo]

I think CPM 4V is going to be the ticket though from what I have seen so far from it, but only time will tell I suppose.

I believe you're right as far as pushing the limits of what's considered a "well rounded" steel. I called that and Vanadis 4E awhile back, based on the scant info I could find. Finding a custom maker in the US that can get V4E is a ***** and the others willing to work with 4V either dropped the ball or worked in a different style than what I wanted.

So we're not too far off on what we believe makes a well balanced steel after all.

Now what about this spectrumwear?

http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/zdata-b ... ecWear.htm" target="_blank

I think 4V is coming, the more people that work with it and hit the HT right getting it hard enough in the 63-64 range will be happy. Not worth the effort keeping it below that range as it loses a lot of performance from my testing and it can take quite a lot in the 63-64 range in the more normal .020" to .025" behind the edge thickness. I tested it at the .008" range and 63 and it did very well, the maker got the knife back and beat it really hard before he could get it to fail at that hardness and thickness ranges. So with 4V it can be ran hard without much of an issue if makers want to use it.

V4E and 4V are very close.

Dunno about that all that much.

Hey Jim or Joe, how would you compare it to something like m4 in the high hardness range...like 64-65? I have heard that m4 edge retention gets pretty phenomenal when taken to that level. I seem to remember that some of the early Bradley folders came out around 65. How was people's experience with those? Does m4 lose a lot of toughness at that hardness? Is that where 4v at 63-64 would have an advantage over it?

[The Mastiff]

I'd think that CPM M4 will have greater wear resistance by a decent margin. I'm not sure how they actually compare toughness wise when both are run at optimal cutlery hardening treatments ( for folders I'd go for higher wear . For harder use choppers you need to think about hardening with toughness in mind. Different temps, different final hardness's as well).

I know CPM M4 can get to near S90V wear when prepared right. You would need to give up some toughness to do that and most makers who do high performance knives would rather use steels like S90V, S110V, or 10V/A11 for that. They can out do M4 in wear resistance pretty easily if that's what you want. CPM M4 can do pretty well for balance though and they ( HSS) get great cutting edges. M2 is still very good but it gets pushed out of the way by what most consider a "better" steel for knives.

I do like CPM M4 myself. It's like Cruwear in that it's not the greatest steel for pure abrasive wear resistance but has enough wear with a good balance of toughness, edge stability, even corrosion resistance in the sense that it's enough for my needs.

They are all going to have a balance and what I need may be different from what someone else needs. On the other hand I'm not a mountain man in 1840's America and can tailor my tool for my needs at the time. It's nice having choices.

Joe

[Ankerson]

This class of steel has really taken off. Maybe when Gerber was using it in 82-86 (Vascowear) as "V"steel it was just before it's time and sharpening equipment.

I agree with Jim that 4V, like CPM Cruwear/PD#1 is at it's best for cutlery when hardened fairly hot and run decently high ( over rc 62 but below rc 64) 62.5to 63.5 is just right, with Cryo.

I've not heard of or tried the "spectrumwear" yet. Some of the vanadium is replaced with tungsten. Looks to be ingot, ESR. Should work good and be fairly easy to heat treat.

Joe

Yeah both CPM 4V and CPM Cruwear seemed to do very well in the 63 range from what I have seen. :cool: