Edges w/o a sharpening notch

[JFR1]

The sharpener I like using has round stones. I could use my Sharpmaker to get all the way to the plunge, but I prefer my round stones.

I completely get why folks don’t like choils or removing a little cutting edge. I like the way Spyderco does their edges, myself, and it’s easy enough for me to add a light choil.

[vivi]

A lot of the replies here beg the question:

why did you settle on a sharpening system that can't sharpen the full edge?

I use rectangular diamond stones that have no issues hitting the full edge. They were only $10-40 a piece. I also have spyderco ceramic stones for finishing the apex that again hit the full edge without issue.

I'm not sure why folks would go with round stones or systems that can't hit the beginning of the edge well. I get using a round rod between full sharpenings for touch-ups, but not for setting edges.

A lot of sharpening systems seem to have serious drawbacks I never encounter with a simple bench stone.

I know a lot of them only go down to the 17-20 degree range too, which is absurdly thick for a pocket knife edge....for my uses at least. I keep mine closer to 10dps.

[Evil D]

The "reaching the plunge line" is one reason I don't use the Goldenstone/Webfoot as often as I thought I would, because the corners are contoured on one side so one side can't reach the plunge line while the other can. They'd still make effective travel sharpeners but I don't want to use them long term.

Sometimes when we get into debates like this I feel like some people are just trying to "win" the debate, when there is no right or wrong answer. Always remember that it's entirely ok to flat out not like something without any reason whatsoever to back it up. There's nothing wrong with just having a preference.

[Paul Ardbeg]

A lot of the replies here beg the question:

why did you settle on a sharpening system that can't sharpen the full edge?

I use rectangular diamond stones that have no issues hitting the full edge. They were only $10-40 a piece. I also have spyderco ceramic stones for finishing the apex that again hit the full edge without issue.

I'm not sure why folks would go with round stones or systems that can't hit the beginning of the edge well. I get using a round rod between full sharpenings for touch-ups, but not for setting edges.

A lot of sharpening systems seem to have serious drawbacks I never encounter with a simple bench stone.

I know a lot of them only go down to the 17-20 degree range too, which is absurdly thick for a pocket knife edge....for my uses at least. I keep mine closer to 10dps.

Because guided systems are easier to learn/use...simple as that. You can mitigate the range of the sharpening system by moving the knife, but I agree that a benchstone works better. I don't care about missing 1 mm of sharpened edge.... in regards to the sharpening angle, i've never come close to 10 DPS, 15 DPS is what I usually gor for. 10 DPS is Japanese chef knife territory. Do you have 10 DPS on knives like the Military, Police and Chief? Might give it a try sometime.

[Wartstein]

... I don't care about missing 1 mm of sharpened edge....

First and foremost: Of course I am with @Evil D, in the end there is no right or wrong, people just shall like what they like.

That said and again said:

- Even IF people "care about missing 1mm of sharpened edge":

A sharpening notch is the ultimate way to guarantee that that "1 mm of sharpened edge" IS missing, cause it got replaced with a potentially snaggy "chip" (notch) that can´t be removed easily again

Just imagine we´d talk about any other area of the cutting edge, let´s say somewhere in its mid section:

Who would honestly prefer a substantial "chip" or notch there over a very short perhaps not as well as the rest sharpened spot of actual edge - ?

[vivi]

A lot of the replies here beg the question:

why did you settle on a sharpening system that can't sharpen the full edge?

I use rectangular diamond stones that have no issues hitting the full edge. They were only $10-40 a piece. I also have spyderco ceramic stones for finishing the apex that again hit the full edge without issue.

I'm not sure why folks would go with round stones or systems that can't hit the beginning of the edge well. I get using a round rod between full sharpenings for touch-ups, but not for setting edges.

A lot of sharpening systems seem to have serious drawbacks I never encounter with a simple bench stone.

I know a lot of them only go down to the 17-20 degree range too, which is absurdly thick for a pocket knife edge....for my uses at least. I keep mine closer to 10dps.

Because guided systems are easier to learn/use...simple as that. You can mitigate the range of the sharpening system by moving the knife, but I agree that a benchstone works better. I don't care about missing 1 mm of sharpened edge.... in regards to the sharpening angle, i've never come close to 10 DPS, 15 DPS is what I usually gor for. 10 DPS is Japanese chef knife territory. Do you have 10 DPS on knives like the Military, Police and Chief? Might give it a try sometime.

Yep. I've taken most of spydercos long time steels like vg10 & s30v well below 10dps.

For my uses I found pocket knives started to take edge damage in the 8-9dps range without a microbevel. So I sharpen most mine around 10-12dps, and do touch-ups on the sharpmaker at 15dps. That gives me a little extra durability so I'm not living on the edge so to speak, but vastly superior cutting performance compared to a stock edge.

If you zoom in really close on this street beat, you can see the microbevel. Normally they aren't so visible but this particular knife has an unfinished edge.

I've always used carving seasoned woods as my edge metric. I use a Mora companion side by side whatever knife I'm testing out and see how it carves. I keep thinning until I'm happy with the carving performance, and I keep checking the edge for any damage as I go.

Edge angles don't matter much for a lot of materials, but they make a massive difference when carving wood, so this test works well for setting my edge angles.

Here's some others I took even thinner.

zdp189 caly jr full convex reprofile. it started chipping near the ricasso when carving hard wood so I micro beveled from there.



oldest aqua salt. this edge holds up to batoning, chopping, prying etc.



some recent reprofiling - viewtopic.php?p=1832922#p1832922

Lastly here's what a 15dps edge looks like VS the angles I typically run:

I always laugh when someone asks if their 2.5" blade pocket knife with XYZ super steel can hold a 15dps edge.

Three Aqua Salts:

1. Seconds reprofiled to 15dps on the sharpmaker.



2. Blacked out reprofiled to 10-12dps by hand.



3. Satin finish reprofiled to 8-10dps per side.




All measurements are eyeball estimates fyi.

This goes to show how thick 15dps really is.

I've batoned, chopped and pried with the satin finished Aqua Salt since the 2000's, and its never gotten edge damage.

I wouldn't worry about any steel Spyderco uses holding 15dps.

[Red Leader]

As surely as the Red vs Blue, Ford vs Chevy, Coke vs Pepsi are hot debates, nothing gets hotter than 'sharpening notch vs no sharpening notch'

I'm solidly in the 'no sharpening notch'. A sharpening notch doesn't matter when all you are doing is cutting cheese and tape from Amazon boxes, but when you have miles of cardboard to cut, or tons of plastic pallet wrap, and other harder things, a sharpening notch is annoying and just gets in the way.

I don't like how Spyderco doesn't sharpen the blade all the way to the ricasso, but I'll take that every day and sharpen it myself than that gross little notch haha

When you think about it, nobody actually likes the notch. The debate is always 'I can tolerate one' vs 'I can't stand it' - not really a resounding triumph for the little notch by any stretch!

[Red Leader]

The Resilience is one of my favorite Spyderco designs. A 4.25" blade with a 4.25" sharpened edge. Absolutely magnificent. I wish we would see some sprints and exclusives of the Resilience.

res.jpg
1000004897.jpg

Yes, yes, and YES. If only all Spydercos were designed as brilliantly as their import line.

Just look at the pure elegance of where the blade, ricasso, and handle all come together as one. Would just zip through cardboard. Nothing, knife design-wise, is as tacky as that huge blank area between the blade and handle that served no purpose. One reason why it is so hard to get behind the Smock, even though I want to love that knife. It could have been so great.

[vivi]

The Resilience is one of my favorite Spyderco designs. A 4.25" blade with a 4.25" sharpened edge. Absolutely magnificent. I wish we would see some sprints and exclusives of the Resilience.

res.jpg
1000004897.jpg

Yes, yes, and YES. If only all Spydercos were designed as brilliantly as their import line.

Just look at the pure elegance of where the blade, ricasso, and handle all come together as one. Would just zip through cardboard. Nothing, knife design-wise, is as tacky as that huge blank area between the blade and handle that served no purpose. One reason why it is so hard to get behind the Smock, even though I want to love that knife. It could have been so great.

agreed. I love the resilience design. just wish it had a different lock really.

I love how much cutting edge it has and the way that edge terminates so close to the handle. I find the extra cutting edge a lot more useful than an index choil. I would love seeing choil-less Manix XL's, Police folders etc. or some new choil less 4.25-4.75" blade designs.

[Paul Ardbeg]

A lot of the replies here beg the question:

why did you settle on a sharpening system that can't sharpen the full edge?

I use rectangular diamond stones that have no issues hitting the full edge. They were only $10-40 a piece. I also have spyderco ceramic stones for finishing the apex that again hit the full edge without issue.

I'm not sure why folks would go with round stones or systems that can't hit the beginning of the edge well. I get using a round rod between full sharpenings for touch-ups, but not for setting edges.

A lot of sharpening systems seem to have serious drawbacks I never encounter with a simple bench stone.

I know a lot of them only go down to the 17-20 degree range too, which is absurdly thick for a pocket knife edge....for my uses at least. I keep mine closer to 10dps.

Because guided systems are easier to learn/use...simple as that. You can mitigate the range of the sharpening system by moving the knife, but I agree that a benchstone works better. I don't care about missing 1 mm of sharpened edge.... in regards to the sharpening angle, i've never come close to 10 DPS, 15 DPS is what I usually gor for. 10 DPS is Japanese chef knife territory. Do you have 10 DPS on knives like the Military, Police and Chief? Might give it a try sometime.

Yep. I've taken most of spydercos long time steels like vg10 & s30v well below 10dps.

For my uses I found pocket knives started to take edge damage in the 8-9dps range without a microbevel. So I sharpen most mine around 10-12dps, and do touch-ups on the sharpmaker at 15dps. That gives me a little extra durability so I'm not living on the edge so to speak, but vastly superior cutting performance compared to a stock edge.

If you zoom in really close on this street beat, you can see the microbevel. Normally they aren't so visible but this particular knife has an unfinished edge.

I've always used carving seasoned woods as my edge metric. I use a Mora companion side by side whatever knife I'm testing out and see how it carves. I keep thinning until I'm happy with the carving performance, and I keep checking the edge for any damage as I go.

Edge angles don't matter much for a lot of materials, but they make a massive difference when carving wood, so this test works well for setting my edge angles.

Here's some others I took even thinner.

zdp189 caly jr full convex reprofile. it started chipping near the ricasso when carving hard wood so I micro beveled from there.



oldest aqua salt. this edge holds up to batoning, chopping, prying etc.



some recent reprofiling - viewtopic.php?p=1832922#p1832922

Lastly here's what a 15dps edge looks like VS the angles I typically run:

I always laugh when someone asks if their 2.5" blade pocket knife with XYZ super steel can hold a 15dps edge.

Three Aqua Salts:

1. Seconds reprofiled to 15dps on the sharpmaker.



2. Blacked out reprofiled to 10-12dps by hand.



3. Satin finish reprofiled to 8-10dps per side.




All measurements are eyeball estimates fyi.

This goes to show how thick 15dps really is.

I've batoned, chopped and pried with the satin finished Aqua Salt since the 2000's, and its never gotten edge damage.

I wouldn't worry about any steel Spyderco uses holding 15dps.

Thanks for sharing Vivi, you have a wealth of knowledge and experience i've started sharpening my Endura in SG2 to a 12-13 degree angle (12,5 position) on my Edge Pro. I can always take it further down from there, but interesting to see how this edge will hold up.