Community Sharpening Journal, Part 2

[ncrockclimb]

free hand.

it's faster, you can sharpen at any angle, v or convex edges, you can get tremendously sharp edges with less than a $50 investment, and you'll be much better prepared for field sharpening.

I'd hate using a kitchen knife sharpened at 13dps.

I want to start off by saying that I am not trying to argue with Vivi. He is a skilled sharpener that has contributed a TON of great content to this forum. I am just offering another viewpoint.

I tried sharpening by hand for months. I worked HARD at it. At best, my results were occasionally mediocre. It was frustrating and not at all fun.

Then, I got a KME. I was able to apply the techniques described by Vivi and others. I got sharp knives. I kept practicing and my process got more refined and I could sharpen knives VERY quickly. I was also able to improve the quality of the edges I produced. The process was fun, fast, and I regularly produced SUPER sharp edges.

A lot of people like hand sharpening. It is by far the most economical way to go. But not everyone likes it or is good at it. Using a device (KME, Wicked Edge, Hapsotone or whatever) is a perfectly ok option too.

[vivi]

all good ncrockclimb, you're obviously just sharing your views and not being argumentive whatsoever. disagreement can be healthy and produce good conversation.

idc if people want to use guided sharpening systems, but if someone asks me, I'll always recommend free hand. I don't think rubbing a piece of metal on a rough surface is beyond anyones ability to become proficient at - it all depends on if they're willing to invest the time to practice it.

I drive a stick too but outside of rentals all being auto I couldn't care less what you guys drive. But ask me to suggest a fun car, and I'll suggest a manual.

[WilliamMunny]

all good ncrockclimb, you're obviously just sharing your views and not being argumentive whatsoever. disagreement can be healthy and produce good conversation.

idc if people want to use guided sharpening systems, but if someone asks me, I'll always recommend free hand. I don't think rubbing a piece of metal on a rough surface is beyond anyones ability to become proficient at - it all depends on if they're willing to invest the time to practice it.

I drive a stick too but outside of rentals all being auto I couldn't care less what you guys drive. But ask me to suggest a fun car, and I'll suggest a manual.

Vivi, serious question, when sharpening free hand how do you have a clue what angle you’re sharpening at? Or does it even matter? If you want a 17° bevel and end up with a sharp knife between 15°-20° does it matter?

I am pretty good free hand, no issue getting a knife extremely sharp. But to take a dull knife and get brand new exactly 17° edges on my knife is beyond my ability. Is getting that exact angle over rated?

Also what diamond stones do you recommend for free hand?

Thanks!

[vivi]

all good ncrockclimb, you're obviously just sharing your views and not being argumentive whatsoever. disagreement can be healthy and produce good conversation.

idc if people want to use guided sharpening systems, but if someone asks me, I'll always recommend free hand. I don't think rubbing a piece of metal on a rough surface is beyond anyones ability to become proficient at - it all depends on if they're willing to invest the time to practice it.

I drive a stick too but outside of rentals all being auto I couldn't care less what you guys drive. But ask me to suggest a fun car, and I'll suggest a manual.

Vivi, serious question, when sharpening free hand how do you have a clue what angle you’re sharpening at? Or does it even matter? If you want a 17° bevel and end up with a sharp knife between 15°-20° does it matter?

I am pretty good free hand, no issue getting a knife extremely sharp. But to take a dull knife and get brand new exactly 17° edges on my knife is beyond my ability. Is getting that exact angle over rated?

Also what diamond stones do you recommend for free hand?

Thanks!

I don't worry about getting a specific angle in this sense. There's no reason to with free hand IMO. I try to keep both sides even, and get a clean bevel on each side, but I do not care at all if the bevel is 16 degrees vs 14 degrees.

There are different ways you can measure. You can use math, goniometers, or just take a picture from the side of your sharpening angle and compare it to a practator. Low tech but it's sufficient for knife sharpening.

It's a very simple skill, it's just rubbing a piece of metal on an abrasive surface until the two sides form a V, then refining it some. People over complicate it.

To me, outside of wanting to do controlled testing, or doing professional jobs for picky customers, there's no reason to use a jig and stress over one side of ypur blade being 13 degrees and the other being 12 degrees.

As far as stones go I've gotten good results from nearly every one I've tried, even $2.50 "super diamond stones" from chef knives to go and the $12 4 sided harbor freight stones.

My favorites are:

- the large chef knives to go $30 diamond flattening plates for resetting bevels and reprofiling knives I don't plan to take to my belt sander.

- DMT coarse, fine and extra fine for refining the edge / applying microbevels. I just straight from the diamond flattening plates to one of these as my finishing step. I never progress through them all.

I always set bevels a few degrees more acute than I plan to hone the knife at. That way I'm just hitting the apex when I hone. That makes getting a clean edge much easier, and it makes touching up a knife much faster. I think honing the full bevel each time a knife needs touched up is dumb because it takes 10x as long as my method.

[WilliamMunny]

all good ncrockclimb, you're obviously just sharing your views and not being argumentive whatsoever. disagreement can be healthy and produce good conversation.

idc if people want to use guided sharpening systems, but if someone asks me, I'll always recommend free hand. I don't think rubbing a piece of metal on a rough surface is beyond anyones ability to become proficient at - it all depends on if they're willing to invest the time to practice it.

I drive a stick too but outside of rentals all being auto I couldn't care less what you guys drive. But ask me to suggest a fun car, and I'll suggest a manual.

Vivi, serious question, when sharpening free hand how do you have a clue what angle you’re sharpening at? Or does it even matter? If you want a 17° bevel and end up with a sharp knife between 15°-20° does it matter?

I am pretty good free hand, no issue getting a knife extremely sharp. But to take a dull knife and get brand new exactly 17° edges on my knife is beyond my ability. Is getting that exact angle over rated?

Also what diamond stones do you recommend for free hand?

Thanks!

I don't worry about getting a specific angle in this sense. There's no reason to with free hand IMO. I try to keep both sides even, and get a clean bevel on each side, but I do not care at all if the bevel is 16 degrees vs 14 degrees.

There are different ways you can measure. You can use math, goniometers, or just take a picture from the side of your sharpening angle and compare it to a practator. Low tech but it's sufficient for knife sharpening.

It's a very simple skill, it's just rubbing a piece of metal on an abrasive surface until the two sides form a V, then refining it some. People over complicate it.

To me, outside of wanting to do controlled testing, or doing professional jobs for picky customers, there's no reason to use a jig and stress over one side of ypur blade being 13 degrees and the other being 12 degrees.

As far as stones go I've gotten good results from nearly every one I've tried, even $2.50 "super diamond stones" from chef knives to go and the $12 4 sided harbor freight stones.

My favorites are:

- the large chef knives to go $30 diamond flattening plates for resetting bevels and reprofiling knives I don't plan to take to my belt sander.

- DMT coarse, fine and extra fine for refining the edge / applying microbevels. I just straight from the diamond flattening plates to one of these as my finishing step. I never progress through them all.

I always set bevels a few degrees more acute than I plan to hone the knife at. That way I'm just hitting the apex when I hone. That makes getting a clean edge much easier, and it makes touching up a knife much faster. I think honing the full bevel each time a knife needs touched up is dumb because it takes 10x as long as my method.

Totally agree with not honing the full edge every time it’s why I got the Sharpmaker.

See what years over honing the full edge does to a blade vs new.

[Brock O Lee]

First reprofile for Umnumzaan Magnacut.

17 dps, with 20 dps micro.
140, 400, 1000 grit diamond progression
Spyderco UF micro
1 micron diamond strop, followed by clean kangaroo strop.
2 measurements, 77g and 83g.
Slices Rizla Red cleanly.

[RugerNurse]

free hand.

Then, I got a KME. I was able to apply the techniques described by Vivi and others. I got sharp knives. I kept practicing and my process got more refined and I could sharpen knives VERY quickly. I was also able to improve the quality of the edges I produced. The process was fun, fast, and I regularly produced SUPER sharp edges.

Which KME system did you get? I have the Worksharp original sharpening system but looking to try something else. I’m still learning to free hand sharpen but we had some family stuff over the last few months so I haven’t had time to practice. I wouldn’t mind a guided system in case I really screw up on a knife.

[RugerNurse]

I’ve heard H1/2 is easier to sharpen but is the burr difficult to remove on it?

[Skywalker]

High polished/mirror edges are appreciable on high hardness steels with a lower carbide volume, or "softer" carbide type, IMO. High carbide volume and harder carbide type steels at high hardness seem to burnish the carbide aggression at the edge when sharpening up the grits, if you take it too far. Obviously this isn't a fixed rule, but with the 10V class of steels that are ever-so popular these days, I find it to definitely be the case if you are over sharpening on the higher grits. In this case, it's not about the mirror polish/"pretty edge", it's all about the refinement. Nothing wrong with a very refined edge, but it takes much more finesse and much less time than many people think, to maximize the benefit. I find greater edge longevity when doing so, but as everything with edges is concerned, YMMV.

This is actually something I've come to appreciate about M390/20CV/204P. I find it relatively easy to get a hazy mirror finish just starting with the 500 grit and going to the 1000 grit Shapton glass stones on my edge pro. Do this at a little under 15dps on the edge pro and then it becomes very quick and easy to maintain a good level of sharpness with a microbevel from the brown sharpmaker rods. 18dps edge pro and the 20dps sharpmaker has also worked well on hunting knives.

I've had better results getting and maintaining edges I like with this kind of medium/medium-fine finish on M390 than with coarse, medium, or fine finishes on high-vanadium stainless steels like S90V/S110V.

[u.w.]

I’ve heard H1/2 is easier to sharpen but is the burr difficult to remove on it?

Yeah, they're softer than some of the higher carbide "super" steels. I don't know that I'd say they are any easier - or - more difficult to sharpen though. I think (odd as it may sound) that difficulty in sharpening is subjective, and there are multiple variables.
I, like some others here on the forum, sharpen free-hand (knife in hand & stone in hand), at low grits, using diamonds.
I, like vivi I think, use the HF $12 - $14 four sided diamond sharpener. I didn't like how I couldn't get all the way to the plunge grind of the primary bevel using that/those stones SO I cut mine with a diamond cutting wheel in my generic B&D dremel longitudinally down each corner. Then cut off the left over plastic fluff, and marked each on it's back to show what grit it is. This left me with four plates, and allows me to sharpen all the way down to the choil, and makes it little easier, or user friendly, for me to sharpen the way I sharpen. Leave the plastic on the back of each of your plates if you try this, as the very thin metal/diamond plates will bend/flex a lot without it.

Back to H1/2 Easier or More Difficult. I use diamond(s), which cuts very well. The only thing that takes longer is my initial sharpening at a lower edge bevel (I'm still not bold enough to do that on a belt sander). I sharpen at a slightly thinner angle than I deburr at, and do most if not all of my deburring on a well worn 325 grit DMT Course, at a slightly more obtuse angle, as mentioned. The diamond pretty easily cuts the burr off, regardless of steel type.
Check for burr by feel and/or with loupe/magnification, etc... and enjoy your properly sharpened & fully deburred blade.

u.w.

[RugerNurse]

Touched up my Salt 2 on the 320 grit stone until a burr formed on each side. Tried really hard to deburr with some light strokes. Then did some feather light passes on the 1200 grit stone. Actually got “hair popping” sharp when running it down my arm. I’ve been able to shave hair before but never have it pop off. Still having some problem lately with the edge rolling some so I wonder if a burr is left. Tried hard to remove it.

[p_atrick]

I’ve been able to shave hair before but never have it pop off.

Awesome job. I really should put in some more time and get better myself.

[vivi]

Inspired by the late Cliff Stamp doing the same, I worked on thinning out my small Cold Steel Kukri machete.

This is fresh off the sander using 80 grit belts. The edge still has a huge burr. I'll refine it by hand on stones before I take it out to my trails.

At some point I want to take it a bit thinner. But this will improve performance quite a bit once I polish up the apex. Excited to do some test chops with it!

[TkoK83Spy]

That's what I need to do with mine. Works like a champ, but that looks and likely performs amazingly. Nicely done!

[Brock O Lee]

I worked on thinning out my small Cold Steel Kukri machete...

Good job! It will dominate.

[vivi]

Haven't gotten to test out the kuk yet but did touch up a chef knife today.

30 passes per side on the 140 grit diamond plate, then a couple alternating passes to minimize the burr. Aimed for 10 degrees per side.

Then, aiming for about 12 degrees per side, I refined the edge on a DMT Fine until it caught hairs above the skin.



25 year old stone and a nearly 20 year old knife. Both still going strong.

[Jimandchris2]

[media][/media]

[*]

[vivi]

Here's another.




I warmed up to the ergos of this knife the first time I held it. One of the most comfortable handles on any folder I've used.

The blade has been a mixed bag though. Being 5mm thick it can wedge it thicker materials, it has much more belly than I tend to prefer, and it came ground at about 22dps.

I've been gradually thinning it out whenever it needs sharpening. Trying to give it better performance while keeping it a little thicker than most my folders because a 10dps edge wouldn't make much sense on a tank like this.

140 grit stone to drop the edge angle from roughly 17dps to 14dps, then a DMT Coarse at 15-16dps to give it a cleanly shaving toothy edge.

This is my first AUS10 knife to use enough to sharpen multiple times. Wasn't wild about the edge I got when I touched up the factory angle, but after thinning it out it takes a nice edge. Definitely feels harder and less prone to big burrs compared to AUS8. Almost like VG10.

Seems like a decent budget steel. Tough enough to stand up to some moderate chopping and batoning without issue.

[Wandering_About]

Gave my first try at sharpening REX 121 today. I did not go as thin as usual, and ended up going less thin during the process due to some burr issues (that were a bit expected and self inflicted, so don't blame the steel too much for that one).

Short version: This is a real challenge. I like to take a "fear no steel" stance toward sharpening but REX 121 has given me a real challenge.

Long version: This works like a very unruly version of Maxamet. I went with an Atoma 140 to set a new bevel, then super vitrified diamond stones in 400 and 1000 to refine and put the final edge on. I did not intend to raise a burr with the Atoma 140, as my experience with Maxamet told me that these extreme steels do some ugly things with big burrs on coarse stones. Well, I ended up with a burr anyway and as expected it did not behave well. The steel cut faster than expected, so I got some burring before the first time I stopped to check for one. The burr came off in chunks that, with my back and forth sharpening motion, chipped a couple spots on the edge. So, I spent quite a bit of time on the 400 grit stone fixing my mistakes there. On the 1000 grit stone things felt more normal, but I ended up not getting quite as nice an edge off the stone as I'm used to. This may be from my transgressions with the coarser stone, but future sharpenings will tell me more. The steel does cut quicker than I expected, but nobody (including myself) will likely sing its praises as a a steel that sharpens quickly. Finished it on a strop with 1 micron diamond. I think I got it sharper than factory, but it's not an edge that I'll brag about. Will have to see how future sharpenings go, right now this has me thinking that a SPY27 Sage is in my future for a more pleasant Sage to deal with!

[Scandi Grind]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on REX 121.

You know, super steels are kind of weird to me, I can't figure out if I want to try one. For the time being I don't have the budget for it, and I really like easy to sharpen steel anyway. It is almost more for the sharpening experience than the edge performance that I seem to be interested though. Maybe I just want to know I can sharpen a super steel successfully, but I don't have the stones to deal with one at present.