Spyderco Forums

apollo wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:07 am

Personally I detest AI and the over use of Robots in the industry.

I’m really curious if you are aware CNC machining is the dominant manufacturing method of knives now. The robots won.

zhyla wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:48 am

apollo wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:07 am

Personally I detest AI and the over use of Robots in the industry.

I’m really curious if you are aware CNC machining is the dominant manufacturing method of knives now. The robots won.

Sure i know that… the difference is there is still someone needed to control those cnc’s. Even if it is one person per 3/4 machines. While an automatic factory doesn’t need anyone except a skeleton maintenance crew.
And as far as i met the glessers in Amsterdam i have the feeling they are against becoming one of those.

zhyla wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:48 am

apollo wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:07 am

Personally I detest AI and the over use of Robots in the industry.

I’m really curious if you are aware CNC machining is the dominant manufacturing method of knives now. The robots won.

CNC is not equivalent to Ai. Not even close.

Ai is as lazy, dishonest, and effortless as it gets. I find nothing impressive about ai generated art. It’s disgusting and an insult to actual creatives.

(Not speaking about anyone on this forum, just in general) We are already at a point where people without a single creative bone in their body are pretending to be super talented because they can type prompts into Ai programs that generate certain images and videos… that’s like playing with Hot Wheels and claiming to be a NASCAR driver!

apollo wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:14 am

Sure i know that… the difference is there is still someone needed to control those cnc’s. Even if it is one person per 3/4 machines.

So you just want a certain number of people watching the robots?

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:23 am

CNC is not equivalent to Ai. Not even close.

I was referring to his stance against “robots”.

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:23 am

Ai is as lazy, dishonest, and effortless as it gets. I find nothing impressive about ai generated art. It’s disgusting and an insult to actual creatives.

I don’t understand having such strong sentiments about image generators. They’re going to get better too. When you can’t tell if it was AI or human who drew the picture, does it still matter?

zhyla wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:26 am

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:23 am

Ai is as lazy, dishonest, and effortless as it gets. I find nothing impressive about ai generated art. It’s disgusting and an insult to actual creatives.

I don’t understand having such strong sentiments about image generators. They’re going to get better too. When you can’t tell if it was AI or human who drew the picture, does it still matter?

That’s actually when it will matter the most!

I’m not against people playing with Ai programs to have their own fun. It’s when people try to pass it off as their own work or something to be impressed by that I will die on the hill to make it known that they’re artistic thieves. It’s no better than plagiarizing someone else’s writing or stealing someone’s design.

I’m just curious, do you have a background or career in art?

Perhaps it’s a reflection of the mediocrity of many contemporary artistic & design endeavours that AI can compete with it.

“Design by numbers” is always “Design by numbers” whether it’s created by machines or limited talent. They merely copy what has gone before without moving the game forward.

I don’t fear for the talent - I fear for the rest of us!

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:40 pm

There will be companies that design and produce knives this way, unfortunately. “Ai designed” will probably be the marketing gimmick too.

I really despise this pseudo-creative Ai plague.

No to be taken the wrong way, but when it comes to stuff being designed by AI, knives are the least of my worries.

RustyIron wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 12:47 pm

Have any of the Spyderco users who are complaining so vehemently been injured or had their feelings hurt by ChatGPT, or is all the panic unfounded?

You serious or just being facetious? Injured…? Had their feelings hurt…? That has to be a joke.

Interesting discussion. It is the "Spark of creativity" that will be stolen. As one who has always been a creator/inventor/designer, It is a major issue for me. It seems that AI has no problem "creating" my round hole, my ball lock, etc. That's why it was always a "Walker Linerlock" and "Reeve Integral lock", instead of a side-lock or framelock. There are many creative humans that will be pushed aside and then humans will become the monkey.

Wen will the first AI get a patent?

sal

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:23 am

[...] We are already at a point where people without a single creative bone in their body are pretending to be super talented because they can type prompts into Ai programs that generate certain images and videos… that’s like playing with Hot Wheels and claiming to be a NASCAR driver!

Sorry for the small quote, just wanted to add to this specific part :)

We're definitely already at that point. But it's kind of of consequence of another point we passed : the point where people with nothing to say/show could take as much space as they could as long as they made noise online

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:53 am

That’s actually when it will matter the most!

I'm not bullish on AI putting creators out of business. But I do think a lot of graphic artists will find demand for them reduces, but is replaced by demand for people skilled in using AI-assisted art programs.

It's just another technological advancement, I would not get too worked up about it.

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:53 am

I’m just curious, do you have a background or career in art?

No, quite the opposite. I have very little artistic talent. So being able to generate art from my own ideas is actually useful, though usually just as a gag.

sal wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 1:01 pm

As one who has always been a creator/inventor/designer, It is a major issue for me. It seems that AI has no problem "creating" my round hole, my ball lock, etc.

If a computer running an AI program generates a knife using a round hole and a ball lock, how is that different than a guy in Pakistan carving it out in his dirt-floored shop? There is no difference from an ethical or legal perspective. AI is a tool, nothing more.

I'll submit to you that the tools and procedures you used to make knives in the 80's are crude and archaic when compared to the tools used in your modern factory. To build a knife using 1980's technology would result in something of either laughable quality or insane cost when compared to what comes out of a modern factory. I suspect 1980's Spyderco would have jumped at the opportunity to use 21st Century, steels, plastics, design tools, and manufacturing tools. If we had today's knowledge forty years ago, I can't even imagine where we'd be today.

In my trade, I began in the 80's during a tidal shift in technology. Most old timers didn't get it, so I was able to move up quickly. That wasn't the end: technology improved, designs improved, products improved. During one period, I stubbornly chose to remain stagnant. But I don't like to talk about that because it was a challenging time. Eventually I decided to embrace all the new stuff, and life was once again glorious. The new stuff presented its own challenges, but it was way better than what we had in the old days. In retrospect, the old ways were pretty awful.

We old guys have the luxury of digging in our heels and refusing to learn new things. But my advice to youngsters is to learn the new tools and techniques, and use them to advance your craft and become better than the competition.

zhyla wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:26 am

When you can’t tell if it was AI or human who drew the picture, does it still matter?

that's actually when it matters most. there are plenty of negatives from an artistic standpoint, but there are far more implications that are even more dangerous. we're talking about losing culture and security all at once and without any consideration of second- and third-order effects.

zhyla wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 1:39 pm

I'm not bullish on AI putting creators out of business. But I do think a lot of graphic artists will find demand for them reduces, but is replaced by demand for people skilled in using AI-assisted art programs.

It's funny that you mentioned graphic artists. I was in the printing business in my late teens and early twenties. We had a department of "strippers." Yes, that's what they were called. They took photographs that the customer provided, and cut them out using very sharp razor knives. Then they pasted the cutouts together to create the desired image. Imagine cutting out a picture of a woman, a picture of a kitchen, and a picture of a jar of pickles, and then pasting them together for an advertisement. That's how it was done back then--not unlike how Matt Stone and Trey Parker started South Park. When technology evolved, the writing was on the wall: learn to use these computer contraptions, or be out of a job.

zhyla wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 1:39 pm

though usually just as a gag.

When Photoshop first came around, much fun was had by placing friends in... compromising... positions. Nowadays such tomfoolery would be quickly recognized and scoffed at, but back then no one had ever seen such a thing. Making crazy yet believable images was easy.

zhyla wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 1:39 pm

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:53 am

That’s actually when it will matter the most!

I'm not bullish on AI putting creators out of business. But I do think a lot of graphic artists will find demand for them reduces, but is replaced by demand for people skilled in using AI-assisted art programs.

It's just another technological advancement, I would not get too worked up about it.

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:53 am

I’m just curious, do you have a background or career in art?

No, quite the opposite. I have very little artistic talent. So being able to generate art from my own ideas is actually useful, though usually just as a gag.

I can tell. This is the reason why you feel the way you feel about ai generated art. It is also why you felt compelled to respond to me acknowledging how lazy and talentless Ai generated “art” is.

“…people skilled in using AI-assisted art programs.” - That’s the problem. It’s a pathetic mentality and like I’ve already said, an insult to real artists. There is no “skill” involved with ai generated art. Period.

zhyla wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:26 am

apollo wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:14 am

Sure i know that… the difference is there is still someone needed to control those cnc’s. Even if it is one person per 3/4 machines.

So you just want a certain number of people watching the robots?

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:23 am

CNC is not equivalent to Ai. Not even close.

I was referring to his stance against “robots”.

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:23 am

Ai is as lazy, dishonest, and effortless as it gets. I find nothing impressive about ai generated art. It’s disgusting and an insult to actual creatives.

I don’t understand having such strong sentiments about image generators. They’re going to get better too. When you can’t tell if it was AI or human who drew the picture, does it still matter?

Cnc machines are still tools and equipment. AI is not AI is there to makes all of us obsolete.
Humans should always have control over machines. If AI is released i see only allot of trouble coming our way. And the more controle it is given over our lives the worse it will get.
Because remember AI may get smart but it will never have a conscience and it will always be cold and heartless. In my eyes the people that are making AI or not better then the ones that build the A-bom.
They maybe mean well but the risk is not worth reward in my eyes.

Hi RustyIron,

I think you have me in the wrong box. I have no problem embracing technology. I've jumped on top of all of the technology that we could afford. My concern is with the less than honorable people that will program the AI. It might become another layer of deceit to filter out. When used to influence, persuade, create in a less than honorable way.

When I ask AI political questions, it's easy to see the bend of the program. I'm concerned that truth will become harder and harder to detect.

RustyIron wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 1:51 pm

sal wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 1:01 pm

As one who has always been a creator/inventor/designer, It is a major issue for me. It seems that AI has no problem "creating" my round hole, my ball lock, etc.

If a computer running an AI program generates a knife using a round hole and a ball lock, how is that different than a guy in Pakistan carving it out in his dirt-floored shop? There is no difference from an ethical or legal perspective. AI is a tool, nothing more.

I understand the tool, even as an "old guy". We make a "challenge coin" with the saying below. I guess the difference is in the question; That guy in Pakistan that carved it out in his dirt floor, how many people does he employ?

sal
_______________________________________________________________________________

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to humankind"

sal wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:54 pm

...My concern is with the less than honorable people that will program the AI. It might become another layer of deceit to filter out. When used to influence, persuade, create in a less than honorable way.

When I ask AI political questions, it's easy to see the bend of the program. I'm concerned that truth will become harder and harder to detect....

This is one of my biggest concerns with the recent AI race. It's gotten so good so quickly at creating convincing pictures, videos etc. that it seems to me we will soon not be able to tell at all what is real and what isn't in the virtual "internet" world. AI is absolutely not "unbiased" or "objective"; the people controlling it will decide what you see. Think of the recent ridiculous attempt by Google's Gemini to re-write history through false and misleading images.

One good thing I think may come of all this is, it might make in-person interactions more valued again.

I'm also with Mushroom to a degree on AI-generated "art" - it can be interesting and even good sometimes, but it doesn't impress me because there's no talent or work involved. Like most modern art.

I only see its value as ‘hey that’s a fun experiment’ but that’s it. I don’t think it should create “legitimate” content. And I believe it shouldn’t be intended to be “impressive” either. I suppose it’s impressive of the people who designed and engineered the technology. But what content the “a.i” computer generates is obviously much more valueless than a creation made by a real individuals imagination and efforts. I’m also really not liking the push on social platforming a.i, they have pushed a.i into a chat box on the Snapchat app. Facebook has created new meta a.i chat programs. A lot of apps are using a.i engines with fake digital people they expect you to form a personal connection to almost like in place of a legitimate connection to another living soul. It’s dark ****. I don’t think people who need real people care should be talking to robots as the solution.