Please share your experience with SPY27

[weeping minora]

It's kind of interesting that Spyderco takes the road of actually wanting folks to use their knives to get the performance out of the steels they offer, however, with their proprietarily designed steel, it firmly seems to sit within a more collective-based, limited availability/scarcity mindset, to draw its sales, which isn't a very good tactic in the current knife market, IMO.

i'm not sure that's fair. they push the boundaries on steels like 15v and k390 and many before that, but they also still use steels like vg10 and bd1n. i'd bet most of the sales are for mid range steels, so it makes sense to make one that's in that range.

I'm speaking specifically on their reservation of usage for their own proprietary steel. Spyderco is diminishing the perceived value of their own steel to more of a collector-based, limited availability, to seemingly drive its sales, versus any real advantages that it might have, when in price competition with the other steels that Spyderco releases within their line-up. If SPY27 offers a much greater advantage at its price point to the countless variants of "mid-tier" steels, why have they been so reluctant to unleash the steel so the ELUs can get a taste of that?

[Bolster]

I'm speaking specifically on their reservation of usage for their own proprietary steel. Spyderco is diminishing the perceived value of their own steel to more of a collector-based, limited availability, to seemingly drive its sales, versus any real advantages that it might have, when in price competition with the other steels that Spyderco releases within their line-up. If SPY27 offers a much greater advantage at its price point to the countless variants of "mid-tier" steels, why have they been so reluctant to unleash the steel so the ELUs can get a taste of that?

Don't have any insider knowledge, but I'd guess it's remarkably expensive to have your own bespoke steel made by a major foundry. That may have played into decisions re: which knives get the SPY27 treatment.

I'm actually very happy that Spyderco has not put their proprietary steel into everything. They haven't limited the range of steels they offer, just because they have their own formulation. I can imagine lots of mfgrs that would do exactly that.

[CDEP]

Don't have any insider knowledge, but I'd guess it's remarkably expensive to have your own bespoke steel made by a major foundry. That may have played into decisions re: which knives get the SPY27 treatment.

I'm actually very happy that Spyderco has not put their proprietary steel into everything. They haven't limited the range of steels they offer, just because they have their own formulation. I can imagine lots of mfgrs that would do exactly that.
[/quote]

Yes, it is costly and risky, and Dr Thomas addresses this in his new book.

I see it as a gift from Sal to all of us who love the VG10 blades. He put it in the Native 5 (the greatest knife of all time, IMHO) and two other popular models at very reasonable cost to us. I don't see SPY27 as in competition with any other steel, and don't care what the spec sheets and catra tests say.

Like VG10, it is an almost ideal user steel for many of us. Gimme a couple Cruwear blades as well and I'm set.

Yes, I have Maxamet, 15V, K390, S90V, S110V, and now Magnacut. All are fun, and a couple have their uses for me. It's early, but I'd wager only Magnacut will join Cruwear & VG10/SPY27 as my favorite user steels. The N5 MC Salts are impressive.

Only Sal & Eric give us this range of steel choice, and for that and all they do for the end user they have my thanks, as well as 90% of my knife budget.

[weeping minora]

I'm speaking specifically on their reservation of usage for their own proprietary steel. Spyderco is diminishing the perceived value of their own steel to more of a collector-based, limited availability, to seemingly drive its sales, versus any real advantages that it might have, when in price competition with the other steels that Spyderco releases within their line-up. If SPY27 offers a much greater advantage at its price point to the countless variants of "mid-tier" steels, why have they been so reluctant to unleash the steel so the ELUs can get a taste of that?

Don't have any insider knowledge, but I'd guess it's remarkably expensive to have your own bespoke steel made by a major foundry. That may have played into decisions re: which knives get the SPY27 treatment.

I'm actually very happy that Spyderco has not put their proprietary steel into everything. They haven't limited the range of steels they offer, just because they have their own formulation. I can imagine lots of mfgrs that would do exactly that.

Insider knowledge or not, I believe you have a good idea on the subject. I just wonder if their limiting of the steel thus far has actually hindered the potential sales and wider spread to get a feel for how the steel reacts to the community at large. I think the sample size is either rather small, or just rather "content" with SPY27, rather than making it a steel worth considering, at least via word of mouth. The reports so far are all favorable, if not really remarkable. I think that level of just solid, balanced performance and nothing more, kind of only adds to its lack of "greatness" amongst the competition that it rides beside. Just reading any statements from others on the steel doesn't really seem to excite, like a Cruwear, K390, LC200N (and now Magnacut), or even perhaps another variant of SxxV does, for around a same price point (obviously depending on model), for an ELU to feel like they're getting the most out of their purchase, IMO.

I'd just like to see if any models with a thinner geometry might be a better offering in this steel. I've been teetering on picking up a MULE TEAM 2 to play with and thinning the primary bevels out. The Native 5 is a bit chunky in stock and BTE for its size, which might be a reason that I haven't been as wowed as others have with the performance. Again, I'm only one sample size and I seem to be the "lemon" of the bunch in my opinions. Make no mistakes, I'm not stating that I think SPY27 is in any regard a bad steel (and for that matter, I too, happen to really like VG-10), but I have to stand by my statements in that I believe for what you pay, there are better options for your hard-earned dollar-to-performance ratio. FWIW, I'd probably feel the same about LC200N, but that at least offers near absolute stainlessness for those that truly need it, with what looks like nearly a similar performance for the same price point and I believe the incremental advantages that SPY27 has over VG-10 just aren't that much better for over $50 more.

[JSumm]

It's kind of interesting that Spyderco takes the road of actually wanting folks to use their knives to get the performance out of the steels they offer, however, with their proprietarily designed steel, it firmly seems to sit within a more collective-based, limited availability/scarcity mindset, to draw its sales, which isn't a very good tactic in the current knife market, IMO.

i'm not sure that's fair. they push the boundaries on steels like 15v and k390 and many before that, but they also still use steels like vg10 and bd1n. i'd bet most of the sales are for mid range steels, so it makes sense to make one that's in that range.

That's what I was thinking LB. They tend to push the needle forward on production knife steels while still maintaining the entry level steels that they have been able to maximize performance out of.

I think SPY27 is a passion project pushed by someone who is passionate about steels. I don't think it fits in the typical business mold. I think there was an opportunity to develop a proprietary steel with the company's name on it and here we are. I don't think Spyderco was trying to grab market share with it. Just a cool project. We are probably over thinking it.

[sal]

Hi Minora,

I have learned to respect your knife knowledge and I enjoy reading your posts. I especially like your tests.

We offer many steels for several reasons; 1) We are Steel Junky's (even Edge Junky's) and we like to experience the different flavors and we try to do that. 2) We believe that many of our customers are also Steel Junky's (even Edge Junky's) and they too get to experience and play with and "taste" as you say, the many options.

SPY27, like Mule Teams, grinds, different designs, etc. are not typical business models. It seems like you are trying to evaluate SPY27 from a business point of view. Our steel offerings, design offerings, grinds and material offerings are not based on "Making money 101". More a case of "Passion 1027".

I wanted a USA made "tweaked" version of Gingami 1 by Hitachi and after some effort with Carpenter, we have a powdered USA made steel called CTS-BD1N Which is a refinement of Gingami 1. I wanted a USA made "tweaked" version of Takefu's VG-10 and now we have a powdered "tweaked" SPY27.

I have much respect for both Hitachi and Takefu and we use much of their steel. It's not a competition thing or a money thing. More of a variety thing like flavors of ice cream. You may prefer chocolate to vanilla, but that is your personal preference. We may even offer a steel flavor that changes your preference?

Hope that helps?

sal

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Passion is the spice in the Spirit that makes excellence possible".

[Bolster]

...I think that level of just solid, balanced performance and nothing more, kind of only adds to its lack of "greatness" amongst the competition that it rides beside. Just reading any statements from others on the steel doesn't really seem to excite, like a Cruwear, K390, LC200N (and now Magnacut) ... I have to stand by my statements in that I believe for what you pay, there are better options for your hard-earned dollar-to-performance ratio. FWIW, I'd probably feel the same about LC200N, but that at least offers near absolute stainlessness for those that truly need it, with what looks like nearly a similar performance for the same price point and I believe the incremental advantages that SPY27 has over VG-10 just aren't that much better for over $50 more...

I'm mostly nodding my head in agreement with your statements, Minora. In particular, yes, I agree it's not a particularly exciting steel, it's a well balanced, dependable, work-a-day, no-surprises particle steel. By analogy, you may want to date more exciting steels but you want to marry a steel like SPY27. I own 4 knives in SPY27 and am happy with all of them. And yes, so far, I agree there is a premium to be paid for SPY27, compared to similar or more 'extreme' options. (I do think it's a big improvement over VG-10, however.)

[cabfrank]

Excellent. I am eager to try it. It seems right up my alley.

[sal]

I was hoping that I didn't kill the thread with my comments?

sal

[CDEP]

I was hoping that I didn't kill the thread with my comments?

sal

Not at al, Sal. I think you just settled the question. You certainly confirmed my assumptions, which I appreciate.

When I was new to Spyderco I didn't understand the approach to steels that you and the team bring to the market, as I was just focused on the design and ergos. The Native 5 was so perfect in my hand that I checked my security cameras to see if you had snuck in to my house in the middle of the night to do a 3D scan of my hand. Once I got over my amazement at the designs I started looking at steels.

I've had a lot of fun exploring all the steel options, and will continue to do so, but from a user standpoint I'm still a CruWear/VG10/SPY27 fan. Extreme qualities are fun, but balance is the target for day to day in my rotation.

Thanks, again. I don't think this would have become a "hobby" for me without Spyderco.

[ladybug93]

Our steel offerings, design offerings, grinds and material offerings are not based on "Making money 101". More a case of "Passion 1027".

i like this. i need to remember this when posting here sometimes too.

[z1r]

I love Spy27. It and Cru-wear are very similar to me at least. I love em both. While it is very similar to S35VN, S30V, and S45VN, I feel it is much easier to sharpen. That for me is a huge plus, because while I am a geek, I don't like to spend endless hours in pursuit of a keen edge.

My Spy27 N5 is a knife I'll never willingly let go of.

[Bemo]

Sal, I would venture to say your mission on these steels has been accomplished and even well done. Both are well received with requests for SPY27 to be used in more models. Can't wait to see what else you have planned.

[jmj3esq]

Well I am fairly new to freehand sharpening. I purchased a SPY27 Mule recently. It came from the factory with a fairly dull edge. I was able to sharpen and put a beautiful edge on this steel on my first try, a rarity for me. The steel seemed to sharpen like a dream and reacted predictably. I have not got the chance to test the edge retention *** this is my only SPY27 example and so far. I like what I see.

[olywa]

Reveal 13 says we're getting a Native Chief LW in SPY27. Can't wait, I've been eagerly waiting for the Native Chief LW and also eager to try some SPY27. Nice that they will converge so perfectly to meet my needs.

[IowaGeologist]

The SPY27 in my Manix 2 is my favorite steel I've come across. Great mix of everything I'm looking for.

[Doc Dan]

The SPY27 in my Manix 2 is my favorite steel I've come across. Great mix of everything I'm looking for.

I agree. I like this steel in my Manix 2 LW. I have only used it to cut boxes and plastic shipping bags, but so far, it behaves better than VG-10, BD1N, and about like S35VN or close enough.

[shunsui]

Reveal 13 says we're getting a Native Chief LW in SPY27. Can't wait, I've been eagerly waiting for the Native Chief LW and also eager to try some SPY27. Nice that they will converge so perfectly to meet my needs.

I'm there for the lightweight Native Chief in SPY27, great combo.

[elena86]

Reveal 13 says we're getting a Native Chief LW in SPY27. Can't wait, I've been eagerly waiting for the Native Chief LW and also eager to try some SPY27. Nice that they will converge so perfectly to meet my needs.

I'm there for the lightweight Native Chief in SPY27, great combo.

Let’s not forget the upcoming UKPK in SPY27 according to Reveal13. This is going to be a fierce competitor for my pocket as my urban edc. I only hope it will be released during my lifetime.

[weeping minora]

Hi Minora,

I have learned to respect your knife knowledge and I enjoy reading your posts. I especially like your tests.

We offer many steels for several reasons; 1) We are Steel Junky's (even Edge Junky's) and we like to experience the different flavors and we try to do that. 2) We believe that many of our customers are also Steel Junky's (even Edge Junky's) and they too get to experience and play with and "taste" as you say, the many options.

SPY27, like Mule Teams, grinds, different designs, etc. are not typical business models. It seems like you are trying to evaluate SPY27 from a business point of view. Our steel offerings, design offerings, grinds and material offerings are not based on "Making money 101". More a case of "Passion 1027".

I wanted a USA made "tweaked" version of Gingami 1 by Hitachi and after some effort with Carpenter, we have a powdered USA made steel called CTS-BD1N Which is a refinement of Gingami 1. I wanted a USA made "tweaked" version of Takefu's VG-10 and now we have a powdered "tweaked" SPY27.

I have much respect for both Hitachi and Takefu and we use much of their steel. It's not a competition thing or a money thing. More of a variety thing like flavors of ice cream. You may prefer chocolate to vanilla, but that is your personal preference. We may even offer a steel flavor that changes your preference?

Hope that helps?

sal

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Passion is the spice in the Spirit that makes excellence possible".

Hi sal,

I appreciate your time, kind words and concise response.

Perhaps I was including a bit more of a business-minded approach in my viewpoint and assessment of SPY27. I still personally really like and enjoy VG-10 for my EDC knives and I find it has nearly the perfect combination of corrosion resistance, ability to hold high sharpness (and IMO, respectable edge retention), sharpenability (which is rather moot, as I have a plethora of stones), with adequate toughness (aside a couple accidents that have chipped a blade or two). Perhaps the "powderizing" of VG-10 will shed more light on those who have lost the path and proclaim VG-10 as inadequate, with those who (will) have experience with SPY27, that have fallen out of favor with VG-10. I think the positive feedback from those who have experienced SPY27 can only attest to the baseline greatness in VG-10, even if they will never exclaim such statements (of course, IMO).

FWIW, I purchased a straight-spine SPY27 MULE with an order of the 15V MULE, set for delivery this upcoming week. I'm looking forward to giving the steel another shot and perhaps I'll better appreciate the steel within this format. The Native 5 platform is a bit "chunky" for my usual preferences. I might be more of a junky than I realize, or admit .