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Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:36 pm
by Cl1ff
Yeah, I agree that it is understandable, but also not appropriate. I don't think what I find appropriate should really matter to the possibly OCD OP, but I want to focus on the actual problem instead of irrelevant things because I care about constructive discussion. There is always an over-correction that distracts from the important stuff when things start out with exaggerations like this.
To clarify something, I had just edited my comment a bit because I didn't like my wording and thought it seemed like I was mildly guilty of being dramatic myself, but now the original has been immortalized.
Edit again: This was supposed to be a quote.
Edit again again: I hope this doesn't come off as pretentious as i imagine it could. I'm not interested in anything other than figuring out what's up with the lock and how Spyderco will handle this. The other stuff just doesn't help with that so i think we can forego it all.
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:53 pm
by Perhaps_OCD?
Cl1ff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:36 pm
Yeah, I agree that it is understandable, but also not appropriate. I don't think what I find appropriate should really matter to the possibly OCD OP, but I want to focus on the actual problem instead of irrelevant things because I care about constructive discussion. There is always an over-correction that distracts from the important stuff when things start out with exaggerations like this.
To clarify something, I had just edited my comment a bit because I didn't like my wording and thought it seemed like I was mildly guilty of being dramatic myself, but now the original has been immortalized.
Edit again: This was supposed to be a quote.
Edit again again: I hope this doesn't come off as pretentious as i imagine it could. I'm not interested in anything other than figuring out what's up with the lock and how Spyderco will handle this. The other stuff just doesn't help with that so i think we can forego it all.
You made a valid point in your first post in this thread. I haven't tried all of spyderco's framelocks, there may be a good one out there. However, my sample for judgment is larger than this one knife. 2 Spydie Chefs, Slyz Bowie, Drunken, and the 5 Paysan's I've had my hands on (including this one) couldn't hold a candle to a $60 Chinese frame lock Kershaw.
I'll talk *EDITED*, but I'll also take *EDITED* and admit when I'm wrong. I was hoping for that video to be a positive one and prove me wrong. It didn't it. It reinforced Spyderco puts out *EDITED* frame locks consistently.
Is there is a current frame lock Spyderco model not listed above (I'm not buying another $500 Drunken to try lol) that you feel is consistently good? I'll buy one (and a competitors frame lock) then post a new video.
Edited to reflect C1iff's latest edits, because this man is a freaking gentleman and I want it to be captured. Cl1iff, I will reedit my post to reflect your edits all night out of respect for you being a classy / well mannered guy (unlike me haha).
*EDITED - Profanity - TazKristi
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:03 pm
by Cl1ff
So none of your Spyderco frame locks work properly?
I would honestly like to know more.
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:26 pm
by wrdwrght
This thread from the guy who gave us
viewtopic.php?t=90659.
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:40 pm
by Perhaps_OCD?
Did you see how many PM2's I have in my collection? That's a lot of pocket clips to change because Sal's son likes tip down, or they want to have a throwback to the OG PM. haha
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:53 pm
by harpo1
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:40 pm
Did you see how many PM2's I have in my collection? That's a lot of pocket clips to change because Sal's son likes tip down, or they want to have a throwback to the OG PM. haha
At least you have the option to change clip locations. Many knives out there don't. By the way they do own the company and if they want to keep some things nostalgic it's their right. After all it is only 3 screws to change the clip location if that's what you want to do.
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:54 pm
by RamZar
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:40 pm
Did you see how many PM2's I have in my collection? That's a lot of pocket clips to change because Sal's son likes tip down, or they want to have a throwback to the OG PM.
I agree that on the ParaMilitary2 and the upcoming Military2 they should come "Tip Up / Right Hand" from the factory since that's by far the most preferred (74% based on a recent poll - see link below). "Tip Down / Right Hand" is preferred by just 15%.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94079
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:59 pm
by Perhaps_OCD?
Cl1ff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:03 pm
So none of your Spyderco frame locks work properly?
I would honestly like to know more.
All of the knives work. However, I don't for a second think the majority of us knife nerds are looking for something that "just works". Its why we aren't carrying a Kershaw from the local Walmart. (not picking on you, just responding to the 'its a tool' crowed that pretends sprint runs are for batoning wood / denys these are items people buy because they're nice)
None of the Spyderco frame locks I've had have been without lock stick or lock rock. I have had probably 30 ZT's, 10 or so Kizers, and 5 WE's for comparison. Not a single one of those brands have had lock stick or lock rock. Some have had detent issues, but that's the thing. On those knives I could bend the lock bar left and right to my hearts content (increase or decrease the tang contact and detent pressure) and no matter what I did to that lock bar, it engaged properly on the tang without stick or rock.
That's because those companies have figured out how to eliminate back and forth lock bar play and (most importantly) get the geometry of the contact surfaces right. It's an R&D / engineering problem Spyderco simply hasn't mastered. Without getting too technical, it's kind of visible in the amateurish nature of the Paysan & Spydie chef's lock bar design. A long and thin little sliver of a bar isn't exactly a recipe for ensuring the tip of that bar lands on the blade tang consistently and properly.
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:10 pm
by Perhaps_OCD?
harpo1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:53 pm
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:40 pm
Did you see how many PM2's I have in my collection? That's a lot of pocket clips to change because Sal's son likes tip down, or they want to have a throwback to the OG PM. haha
At least you have the option to change clip locations. Many knives out there don't. By the way they do own the company and if they want to keep some things nostalgic it's their right. After all it is only 3 screws to change the clip location if that's what you want to do.
Go post in that thread if you want to chat about clips. I don't argue they don't have the right. I argue they're kind of jerks for ignoring customer sentiment and what the market wants. Not everyone has a torx bit set. Buy a PM2 for someone in the military or isn't a knife noob and watch them *EDITED* about the clip. I now include a torx set in gifts.
This thread is about how they're bad at frame locks tho. Let's keep it on point.
*EDITED - Profanity - TazKristi*
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:14 pm
by harpo1
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:10 pm
harpo1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:53 pm
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:40 pm
Did you see how many PM2's I have in my collection? That's a lot of pocket clips to change because Sal's son likes tip down, or they want to have a throwback to the OG PM. haha
At least you have the option to change clip locations. Many knives out there don't. By the way they do own the company and if they want to keep some things nostalgic it's their right. After all it is only 3 screws to change the clip location if that's what you want to do.
Go post in that thread if you want to chat about clips. I don't argue they don't have the right. I argue they're kind of jerks for ignoring customer sentiment and what the market wants.
This thread is about how they're bad at frame locks tho. Let's keep it on point.
I argue Spyderco listens to their customers more than any other knife company. The proof is in this forum. But hey if you feel they don't and that they're jerks take you money elsewhere.
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:33 pm
by Fireman
harpo1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:30 pm
I think had they made better access to the lock bar on the show side this knife would be perfect.
If this is a problem for me, I would mod it but most will probably just add it to their collections and not use it or mod to retain resale value. I think mine will be in my EDC rotation
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:37 pm
by Fireman
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:59 pm
Cl1ff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:03 pm
So none of your Spyderco frame locks work properly?
I would honestly like to know more.
All of the knives work. However, I don't for a second think the majority of us knife nerds are looking for something that "just works". Its why we aren't carrying a Kershaw from the local Walmart. (not picking on you, just responding to the 'its a tool' crowed that pretends sprint runs are for batoning wood / denys these are items people buy because they're nice)
None of the Spyderco frame locks I've had have been without lock stick or lock rock. I have had probably 30 ZT's, 10 or so Kizers, and 5 WE's for comparison. Not a single one of those brands have had lock stick or lock rock. Some have had detent issues, but that's the thing. On those knives I could bend the lock bar left and right to my hearts content (increase or decrease the tang contact and detent pressure) and no matter what I did to that lock bar, it engaged properly on the tang without stick or rock.
That's because those companies have figured out how to eliminate back and forth lock bar play and (most importantly) get the geometry of the contact surfaces right. It's an R&D / engineering problem Spyderco simply hasn't mastered. Without getting too technical, it's kind of visible in the amateurish nature of the Paysan & Spydie chef's lock bar design. A long and thin little sliver of a bar isn't exactly a recipe for ensuring the tip of that bar lands on the blade tang consistently and properly.
I love my Spydiechef and use it almost daily. I have had zero issues with mine but if you are not satisfied, Spyderco has an amazing return policy and they stand behind their products. I would send mine in for a replacement or repair before I complain on a public forum. Sorry you had issues, Did you send your problem knife in?
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:38 pm
by Fireman
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:59 pm
Cl1ff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:03 pm
So none of your Spyderco frame locks work properly?
I would honestly like to know more.
All of the knives work. However, I don't for a second think the majority of us knife nerds are looking for something that "just works". Its why we aren't carrying a Kershaw from the local Walmart. (not picking on you, just responding to the 'its a tool' crowed that pretends sprint runs are for batoning wood / denys these are items people buy because they're nice)
None of the Spyderco frame locks I've had have been without lock stick or lock rock. I have had probably 30 ZT's, 10 or so Kizers, and 5 WE's for comparison. Not a single one of those brands have had lock stick or lock rock. Some have had detent issues, but that's the thing. On those knives I could bend the lock bar left and right to my hearts content (increase or decrease the tang contact and detent pressure) and no matter what I did to that lock bar, it engaged properly on the tang without stick or rock.
That's because those companies have figured out how to eliminate back and forth lock bar play and (most importantly) get the geometry of the contact surfaces right. It's an R&D / engineering problem Spyderco simply hasn't mastered. Without getting too technical, it's kind of visible in the amateurish nature of the Paysan & Spydie chef's lock bar design. A long and thin little sliver of a bar isn't exactly a recipe for ensuring the tip of that bar lands on the blade tang consistently and properly.
I guess one of the best thing about the Paysan is, you can sell it on secondary market for about double the purchase price
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:43 pm
by Fireman
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:40 pm
Did you see how many PM2's I have in my collection? That's a lot of pocket clips to change because Sal's son likes tip down, or they want to have a throwback to the OG PM. haha
I think there are some reasons why the Millie was designed tip down for the intended user IIRC. I am one who prefers the tip down on the Millie for my every day carry at work.
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:55 pm
by Sharp Guy
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:59 pm
None of the Spyderco frame locks I've had have been without lock stick or lock rock....
I have several Ti frame lock knives from Spyderco. None have lock stick or lock rock. Sorry you've had such bad luck but you need to take a deep breath. Kicking and stomping on the forum like a little kid is truly sad.
I mentioned in the other Paysan thread that people were going to be displeased with the lock stick on the CQI models. And here we are. There's not much room to get your thumb in there to move the lock bar over. I've had a few comp lock models with bad lock stick and it did go away fairly quickly. I bet it'll clear up in time on the Paysan too but there'll probably be some sore thumbs from breaking it in. No worries about the lock disengaging accidentally though
EDIT: BTW, my first ZT had horrible lock stick. I almost got rid of it. I kept it and the lock stick went away after awhile. I still have it
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:10 pm
by Fireman
I am grateful that I get to have a Paysan. I would have to pay a lot more for the full custom.
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:13 pm
by Sharp Guy
Fireman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:10 pm
I am grateful that I get to have a Paysan. I would have to pay a lot more for the full custom.
I'm very happy with mine
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:26 pm
by Fireman
After a month or so of carry, I may mod the Paysan because I want a user and I can’t leave well enough alone. For my personal style and use, I may take away the area of the handle I photoshopped out (poorly) so I can choke up on the knife and in doing so make it also a front flipper by deleting that area for extra fidget factor. Any thoughts on this mod idea?
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:25 pm
by Cowboyfromhell
I cant believe it took over 3 years for a warranty replacement!.... Ouch!
Re: New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:32 pm
by Perhaps_OCD?
Fireman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:37 pm
Perhaps_OCD? wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:59 pm
Cl1ff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:03 pm
So none of your Spyderco frame locks work properly?
I would honestly like to know more.
All of the knives work. However, I don't for a second think the majority of us knife nerds are looking for something that "just works". Its why we aren't carrying a Kershaw from the local Walmart. (not picking on you, just responding to the 'its a tool' crowed that pretends sprint runs are for batoning wood / denys these are items people buy because they're nice)
None of the Spyderco frame locks I've had have been without lock stick or lock rock. I have had probably 30 ZT's, 10 or so Kizers, and 5 WE's for comparison. Not a single one of those brands have had lock stick or lock rock. Some have had detent issues, but that's the thing. On those knives I could bend the lock bar left and right to my hearts content (increase or decrease the tang contact and detent pressure) and no matter what I did to that lock bar, it engaged properly on the tang without stick or rock.
That's because those companies have figured out how to eliminate back and forth lock bar play and (most importantly) get the geometry of the contact surfaces right. It's an R&D / engineering problem Spyderco simply hasn't mastered. Without getting too technical, it's kind of visible in the amateurish nature of the Paysan & Spydie chef's lock bar design. A long and thin little sliver of a bar isn't exactly a recipe for ensuring the tip of that bar lands on the blade tang consistently and properly.
I love my Spydiechef and use it almost daily. I have had zero issues with mine but if you are not satisfied, Spyderco has an amazing return policy and they stand behind their products. I would send mine in for a replacement or repair before I complain on a public forum. Sorry you had issues, Did you send your problem knife in?
Did you miss the part where I did send it in for warranty, waited 3.5 years, and got a defective knife back? Spyderco's "amazing warranty" is to sell all of the sprints or high demand knives they make, and not hold any back for exchanges. They've told me this themselves. Note: good vendors make up for their negligence by keeping their own reserves.
I'll definitely be sending this one in, but I don't expect them to be able to send back a proper replacement. I'll ask for $920 in store credit this time. MSRP to MSRP
Do you have a similar priced frame lock to compare the spydie chef to? Maybe my curse is having good frame locks to compare it with.