Spyderco Forums

Deadboxhero wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:35 pm

CPM 1v is tougher than CPM 3v

Well, I would like that too. S7 as well.

Fireman wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:03 pm

Deadboxhero wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:35 pm

CPM 1v is tougher than CPM 3v

Well, I would like that too. S7 as well.

S5 is tougher than S7

Do we need toughness beyond 3V in a folding knife? Are we asking for a folding knife or a folding jackhammer bit?

JRinFL wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:18 pm

Do we need toughness beyond 3V in a folding knife? Are we asking for a folding knife or a folding jackhammer bit?

I often wonder this lately. People want this and that, when in reality...why?? There's already plenty of over the top steels available on models throughout the Spyderco lineup. Not singling you out Fireman, just an observation.

JRinFL wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:18 pm

Do we need toughness beyond 3V in a folding knife? Are we asking for a folding knife or a folding jackhammer bit?

I want a folder you can pound with a hammer on the spine. Think of it as a folding froe. The handle is just there to line up your cut and keep the blade from flying off when you hit it
Some cars are for demolition derbies
Some cars are for show
some cars are just commuter cars that get the job done without and fun.
Knives are kinda like that too.

TkoK83Spy wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:24 pm

JRinFL wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:18 pm

Do we need toughness beyond 3V in a folding knife? Are we asking for a folding knife or a folding jackhammer bit?

I often wonder this lately. People want this and that, when in reality...why?? There's already plenty of over the top steels available on models throughout the Spyderco lineup. Not singling you out Fireman, just an observation.

Having worked the trades and as a FF you get an appreciation for tools that you can trust can be struck with a hammer or used as one. I have a penchant for tough steels.

Handles and hardware for the most “part” can be replaced (heh! see why I did there?) but a broken blade is cat @$$ trophy.

Maybe the “tuff” millie should be the Tanto millie that I hope comes out like the Tanto PM2. A Tanto millie in 3V or some other über tough steel would be quite useful. Make it it out of thick stock with a thick spine to boot. Are you hearing me universe?!?!???

Those matrix steels are not getting enough attention.

Or 420HC. It's as tough as 3V at 58HRC and it won't even rust. Always liked the Bos HT flame logo.

If you are going to make the blade thicker you won’t need a tougher steel. However if you were to make it thicker 3V might make sense. Geometry has more impact than steel choice.

When needing a knife tougher than a Military what you really need is different knife and not a Military in a different steel.

Obviously different steels have different properties but making the same knife in a different steel doesn’t make it a new knife.

The Tuff wasn’t tough because it had 3V. It had 3V because it was tough. It is all about matching the steel to the design.

Might be able to cut cost and use mild steel, seems the biggest requirement is that it doesn't break. Make as tough as possible.

Strengthen the Mild steel with thicker geometry.

Like a folding cold chisel except with G10 handles.

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:36 pm

If you are going to make the blade thicker you won’t need a tougher steel. However if you were to make it thicker 3V might make sense. Geometry has more impact than steel choice.

When needing a knife tougher than a Military what you really need is different knife and not a Military in a different steel.

Obviously different steels have different properties but making the same knife in a different steel doesn’t make it a new knife.

The Tuff wasn’t tough because it had 3V. It had 3V because it was tough. It is all about matching the steel to the design.

These are good points.

lol
I want this

Deadboxhero wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:24 pm

Might be able to cut cost and use mild steel, seems the biggest requirement is that it doesn't break. Make as tough as possible.

Strengthen the Mild steel with thicker geometry.

Like a folding cold chisel except with G10 handles.

Fireman wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:44 pm

JRinFL wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:18 pm

Do we need toughness beyond 3V in a folding knife? Are we asking for a folding knife or a folding jackhammer bit?

I want a folder you can pound with a hammer on the spine. Think of it as a folding froe. The handle is just there to line up your cut and keep the blade from flying off when you hit it
Some cars are for demolition derbies
Some cars are for show
some cars are just commuter cars that get the job done without and fun.
Knives are kinda like that too.

Froes are made from pretty simple steels. Probably same as the steels used on axes.

I have a fixed blade single bevel tanto/chisel blade design that I am working on to aid in forceful entry/rescue that is in this same vein of design philosophy. Not all knives need to be super slicey.

Not interested in titanium. Pretty sure I don’t need anything tougher than CRUWEAR and I expect MagnaCut. I could be interested in something like a less reactive version of M4 or REX45. Not sure I really want K390. AEB-L would be interesting. But I think 3V just goes too far towards the toughness end member and kills edge holding.

Woodpuppy wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:56 pm

...But I think 3V just goes too far towards the toughness end member and kills edge holding.

3V should have better wear resistance and better toughness relative to AEB-L, given 59-61 HRC. IIRC The only real sacrifice is stain resistance, or achievable HRC if you're just trying for maximum hardness, and of course expense/complexity of manufacture to dial in all those parameters.

I voted "no" because if I know I need extra toughness/shock resistance for pounding I wouldn't pick the Military profile/edge geometry, but I have to admit I'd probably chip my beater knives less often if they were made from 3V, even run a couple of points harder than normal.

3V seems to be pretty ideal when it comes to striking a toughness/wear resistance balance. I don't have any direct experience with it though, and given how soft it has been treated by some manufacturers (no names need be mentioned I'm sure) I wonder if there's something about mass production that makes hitting all the parameters tricky.

5160 and other low-carbon steels would be fine for some thicker blades, but Spyderco is a standout for finding higher wear resistance and thinner grinds, 3V seems a natural way to achieve the best we can get.

I'd be game. I voted for every single Yes option.

I'd prefer K390, Micarta, and a frame lock, but 3V, G-10, and a frame lock is still pretty good. Maybe 4V would be a better option though - or better yet, 10V.

I've really been enjoying 3V in my Bark River knives. That stuff can smash through small branches all day long and still cut up dinner real good later inn the evening.

jdw wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:04 pm

I would buy a Military in 3v but I would prefer the scales to be G10 or Micarta. I am not much of a fan of Ti scales but at this point I would buy almost any new Military Sal and the Spyderco crew offered.

I've noticed titanium is starting to fall of grace.

Chapp wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:01 am

I've noticed titanium is starting to fall of grace.

For me it depends on the model. For whatever reason I just don't like it on a Military. Part of what makes the Military awesome (for me) is the size to weight ratio and the titanium just adds too much weight for a debatable increase in strength.