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A ten inch chopper in CPM1V with a simple but secure handle. Keep it under $300 and focus purely on performance.

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:26 pm

A ten inch chopper in CPM1V with a simple but secure handle. Keep it under $300 and focus purely on performance.

I'm just working out some concepts here. Sal should do whatever he wants and if he wants a chopper then 1V it is.

It would be much cheaper in 1V, but I cannot speak to it's performance. I've seen videos on the Bark River Knives 1V Machete and it performed well as a chopper, but I always got the feeling that the Darn Dao was more than that.

To me the Darn Dao is a shortened sword, a large close in fighting knife and so edge holding is an important aspect. Will a 1V model fulfill it's intended performance envelope? I'd like to have more edge holding and if possible a tougher steel than the current steel. Given that I am not a knife designer is the answer to this riddle 3V, 4V or something else? It does not seem to be 1V.

1V performs decently(no rolling, no chipping) in the Bark River Knives 1V Machete but it is a machete. It's a nice machete. It was on my to buy list when they ran the first batch but machetes aren't quite where I'm at. Other knives are more pressing for me.

I have quite a few knives and I'm not scared off by price if it is an excellent knife. Some folders that I have go for $600, many of them for $500 or close to it. $600 for a Darn Dao made out of the right steel is not a hard bargain for me. I'll take it.

EDIT: Based on Larrin's tests, I think 4V is the steel needed. 3V under performs "154" steels ever so slightly. After seeing Larrin's charts on TCC, Sal did an awesome job picking the 154 steel.

My basic problem with it is simple. I already have a Spyderco/Hossom Forrester and an ESEE Junglas that see zero use, why would I plunk down that much cash for a wallhanger? It's a beautiful knife and I can appreciate the skill and talent that went into crafting it, but it could be made of aluminum and molded rubber for all the use it would get from me. YMMV.

I say harden the steel to 63HRC, make it 4V or Cruwear...whatever gets the bigger splash, and go for it.

@yablanowitz I don't get a lot of "use" out of my knives. I have $20,000 in knives that are weapons for self defense/offense. I do carry them all though. I've been carrying my Spyderco Native Chief in S90V since I got it. It is an excellent tool for my purposes. If/When the SHTF a 4V Darn Dao would be pressed in to service over my version 1 ESEE Junglas.

A typical guy with a 50BMG rifle sees about the same amount of use that I get out of my knives.

Naperville wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:49 pm

EDIT: Based on Larrin's tests, I think 4V is the steel needed. 3V under performs "154" steels ever so slightly. After seeing Larrin's charts on TCC, Sal did an awesome job picking the 154 steel.

Larrin mentioned that it's possible once carbide size gets smaller than the silica in the test media it doesn't contribute as much to wear resistance. So in real world use 3v could see better performance than CATRA leads one to believe.

Naperville wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:49 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:26 pm

A ten inch chopper in CPM1V with a simple but secure handle. Keep it under $300 and focus purely on performance.

I'm just working out some concepts here. Sal should do whatever he wants and if he wants a chopper then 1V it is.

It would be much cheaper in 1V, but I cannot speak to it's performance. I've seen videos on the Bark River Knives 1V Machete and it performed well as a chopper, but I always got the feeling that the Darn Dao was more than that.

To me the Darn Dao is a shortened sword, a large close in fighting knife and so edge holding is an important aspect. Will a 1V model fulfill it's intended performance envelope? I'd like to have more edge holding and if possible a tougher steel than the current steel. Given that I am not a knife designer is the answer to this riddle 3V, 4V or something else? It does not seem to be 1V.

1V performs decently(no rolling, no chipping) in the Bark River Knives 1V Machete but it is a machete. It's a nice machete. It was on my to buy list when they ran the first batch but machetes aren't quite where I'm at. Other knives are more pressing for me.

Yeah, I went off topic. I am not interested in a weapon but rather a wilderness tool. Something that can process wood and build shelters. Of course a big chopper can always be pressed into survive as a self defense tool if needed.

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:30 pm

Yeah, I went off topic. I am not interested in a weapon but rather a wilderness tool. Something that can process wood and build shelters. Of course a big chopper can always be pressed into survive as a self defense tool if needed.

You are correct. South Americans and Asians from all over their continent and the outlying islands do use machetes as weapons. A machete in 1V would be excellent. I think the Darn Dao is the wrong platform though, it's kind of pointy. Maybe @Sal can pursue both knives, a 4V Darn Dao and a 1V Machete! :rolleyes:

I'm in for both!

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:07 pm

I was under the impression that once a Flash Batch is made, the model itself will never again be made again. Regardless of steel and handle material combinations, the model itself will not be repeated.

You are not alone, that's why I spent that much money for one, for the uniqueness. It's the duplicates that dilute it's value, like the money printing the Fed is doing.

RustyIron wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:01 pm

It's a very cool knife, to be sure. But I don't really know what I would do with one, unless I was going to slip on my Yeezy's, sip highballs, and hike with Ashley Olsen.

http://pagesix.com/2021/07/10/ashley-ol ... a-machete/

She has never been hotter than at that moment.

Joshcrutchley1 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:34 pm

Naperville wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:49 pm

EDIT: Based on Larrin's tests, I think 4V is the steel needed. 3V under performs "154" steels ever so slightly. After seeing Larrin's charts on TCC, Sal did an awesome job picking the 154 steel.

Larrin mentioned that it's possible once carbide size gets smaller than the silica in the test media it doesn't contribute as much to wear resistance. So in real world use 3v could see better performance than CATRA leads one to believe.

1V, 3V, 4v, or LC200N and take my money!
I would love a LC200N for double duty in the kitchen. I have a 12.5” high carbon machete/butcher knife and would like a stainless one as well. 14” blade though.

The Spyderco Darn Dao Flash Batch in CPM-154 showed up at dealers in December 2017. Flash Batch means it’s a new design and in this case only 1,200 were made and this design will not be repeated. MSRP was $649.95 and MAP was $422.47 when it was released. Superb fixed blade knife!

I’m not sure why people insist that CPM-154 is a tough steel. It’s about as tough as S30v, both S35vn and XHP are about twice as tough. AEB-L and 14c28n are much, much tougher and less expensive.

I’m guessing the steel choice was made on factors other than cost or performance. Perhaps it was similar to the original Lum custom blade steel?

I think it's neat, and perfectly functional, BUT I have quite a few machetes that would do the same jobs I'd use it for.

I would like to see one in a different steel and with micarta scales. I would like one of the carbon/tool steels. Not too worried about cost. Still cheaper and easier than getting a lum custom. I've never seen a custom Dao for sale yet. Would also love to see spyderco make a sabre tip fighter. That would be a must have flash batch. It's similar to the Dao but smaller and the "swedge" looks hollow ground.


Also Bob has passed away so you can't commission a knife. Whatever is out there is all there is. So cost doesn't matter for that fact. Probably cost about $3 to 5K for an original.

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:51 am

captnvegtble wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:07 am

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:07 pm

Hi Sal,
I've noticed some disagreement amongst the forum about what a Flash Batch actually is.

I was under the impression that once a Flash Batch is made, the model itself will never again be made again. Regardless of steel and handle material combinations, the model itself will not be repeated.

Others have suggested that they are similar to sprint runs, where a Flash Batch can not be duplicated in certain material combinations but the model itself can be repeated.

From the sound of your comments on the Darn Dao, a Flash Batch model is repeatable as long as it doesn't reuse the original materials? Is that correct?

(Sorry if this is a confusing question :o)

Directly from the website:
"A Flash Batch, however, showcases a brand new design that has not been previously produced and will never be duplicated in the exact same form again. To make them even more unique and collectible, Flash Batches are individually serialized with a laser-engraved number on every blade."

Right. :) That's the description I'm referring to when I say there seems to be some disagreement about what it actually means. Therefore, I was asking for some official clarification from someone at Spyderco. :)

The statement from Spyderco that was copied and pasted above is written in plain English and simple to comprehend. How can there be confusion.

SSD_777 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:15 pm

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:51 am

captnvegtble wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:07 am

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:07 pm

Hi Sal,
I've noticed some disagreement amongst the forum about what a Flash Batch actually is.

I was under the impression that once a Flash Batch is made, the model itself will never again be made again. Regardless of steel and handle material combinations, the model itself will not be repeated.

Others have suggested that they are similar to sprint runs, where a Flash Batch can not be duplicated in certain material combinations but the model itself can be repeated.

From the sound of your comments on the Darn Dao, a Flash Batch model is repeatable as long as it doesn't reuse the original materials? Is that correct?

(Sorry if this is a confusing question :o)

Directly from the website:
"A Flash Batch, however, showcases a brand new design that has not been previously produced and will never be duplicated in the exact same form again. To make them even more unique and collectible, Flash Batches are individually serialized with a laser-engraved number on every blade."

Right. :) That's the description I'm referring to when I say there seems to be some disagreement about what it actually means. Therefore, I was asking for some official clarification from someone at Spyderco. :)

The statement from Spyderco that was copied and pasted above is written in plain English and simple to comprehend. How can there be confusion.

It is and if you're asking, I believe the confusion comes from people interpreting that statement differently... Which has lead to some disagreement on the forums, like I said. :)

With Sal's previous comments, it is now even easier to understand what a Flash Batch is.

The custom original Darn Dao with cocobolo scales which sold for $3,495 a few years ago. Doesn't say what the steel was but it could've been 154CM. Anyone know for sure what steel was used on the original?

After handling a few Spyderco fixed blades I feel the value to quality is pretty fair. Not sure using a different steel will drop the price significantly as 154 is already a middle of the road cost wise. More likely ask for a more exotic steel and handle material. Like the one pictured above!

My biggest issue is the cost, I am still not at $400-500 being acceptable for a knife. Like others you get to knives that you can't daily carry or use regularly you lose me even more. Glad the market is there for these products as I do enjoy looking at them online and wondering what use I have for them.

Look at Emerson’s and Benchmade knives. 154CM done right is a good steel. It may not be a “Super steel” but it has been a good steel for decades in good knives.

Fireman wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:53 pm

Look at Emerson’s and Benchmade knives. 154CM done right is a good steel. It may not be a “Super steel” but it has been a good steel for decades in good knives.

I like CPM-154 I just would prefer micarta over polished G10 for something I'm swinging around. I haven't had my Dao slip out of my hand yet but I haven't worked it much this summer. Still I'd trust micarta polished more than g10 polished.