Spyderco Forums

araneae wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:24 am

curlyhairedboy wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:51 am

sal wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:03 am

One requirement that you are perhaps not thinking of is that in order to get a new steel to test,besides sometimes begging, we have to purchase a minimum quantity. Usually 1,000 to 2,000 lbs. That would be an awful lot of UK's or Urbans to try to move with an experimental steel.

sal

With that in mind, Sal, do you think it might be feasible to do something similar to the collector's program?

I'm thinking if we get 100 people to sign up to buy whatever UKpk's in a variety of steel, then maybe one can come out every 6-8 months and then meet the steel minimum orders?

I think you need waaaaay more than 100 people to cover 1000-2000 pounds of steel.

Yeah, I'm probably off by an order of magnitude...

sal wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:03 am

One requirement that you are perhaps not thinking of is that in order to get a new steel to test,besides sometimes begging, we have to purchase a minimum quantity. Usually 1,000 to 2,000 lbs. That would be an awful lot of UK's or Urbans to try to move with an experimental steel.

sal

That is something I did not know. Hmmm.

curlyhairedboy wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:37 am

araneae wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:24 am

curlyhairedboy wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:51 am

sal wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:03 am

One requirement that you are perhaps not thinking of is that in order to get a new steel to test,besides sometimes begging, we have to purchase a minimum quantity. Usually 1,000 to 2,000 lbs. That would be an awful lot of UK's or Urbans to try to move with an experimental steel.

sal

With that in mind, Sal, do you think it might be feasible to do something similar to the collector's program?

I'm thinking if we get 100 people to sign up to buy whatever UKpk's in a variety of steel, then maybe one can come out every 6-8 months and then meet the steel minimum orders?

I think you need waaaaay more than 100 people to cover 1000-2000 pounds of steel.

Yeah, I'm probably off by an order of magnitude...

Way off, but if a solution could be found I’d be willing to agree to buy the knives if not expensive.

I would guess the number of units required is roughly equal to, say, the number of every VToku2 variant issued.

How about “just” including a slipjoint in future steel sprint runs? Seki used to make Spyderco slipjoints after all.

I did get an AEB-L Urban recently, admittedly a bit late to the party. It was a low cost way to get another steel to play with, and it showed me that the Urban is a neat little knife. However, I don't think that it's large enough to do any meaningful testing with, even informal testing. I'd want something at least UKPK sized. I'd actually prefer something with a lock, like a Native 5 LW. I really like the idea of a standardized folding mule type knife, and I hope the team at Spyderco can find a way to make it feasible.

Steels like AEB-L and Hap 40 are already steels being used so we don't have to purchase large minimum quantities. 1,000 lbs of a steel not used much or specially made would make 3,000-4,000 UKPK's and even more Urbans. Quite a few for an experiment that is consumer direct.

Originally, I wanted to use the Military as a Steel Mule but the cost was high. The way we made our fixed blade Mule Teams consumer direct was the least expensive for the steel junky customer.

I also agree with Ugaarguy that an Urban is a bit small for genera testing.

I will say that Eric is planning a few more Mule Teams with some new steels.

sal

sal wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:08 am

Steels like AEB-L and Hap 40 are already steels being used so we don't have to purchase large minimum quantities. 1,000 lbs of a steel not used much or specially made would make 3,000-4,000 UKPK's and even more Urbans. Quite a few for an experiment that is consumer direct.

Originally, I wanted to use the Military as a Steel Mule but the cost was high. The way we made our fixed blade Mule Teams consumer direct was the least expensive for the steel junky customer.

I also agree with Ugaarguy that an Urban is a bit small for genera testing.

I will say that Eric is planning a few more Mule Teams with some new steels.

sal

Wow, it takes 4 to 5 ounces of blade steel to make a a knife that weighs 1.7 oz, including the scales, spring bar, and hardware. I know there's loss from cutting the blade blanks from the sheets or strips of steel, and then further loss from grinding the bevels and the rest of the finish machining. I didn't realize there was that much material loss. Sal, Are you able to share how much steel is typically recovered by recycling the remainder of the sheets after the blanks are cut from them?

Hi Ugaarguy,

It depends on the stee and thickness. Some steels have a lot of fall-out for one reason or another. The Mule Team project pieces includes a handle which uses a lot of steel.

sal

Fixed blade UKPK?

Yeah, we'd definitely need a LOT more than 100 people or so :D

It might depend on the specific steel.

For example, the PMA11, PD1 and RWL34 mules stuck around for a while. I bet that a sprint run of the Shaman/Native Chief/etc in PD1 would sell out very quickly if you advertised it as "basically identical to cru-wear". Ditto for PMA11 runs billed as "very similar to K390" or RWL34 subtitled as "knife specific version of CPM 154". It seems like further sprint runs could easily use up a lot of the steel left over from Mule runs.

There has to be a solution to the folding mule problem. That’s a lot of steel to buy. I wonder how this requirement might be gotten around? Sales samples? Scraps from the maker?

One vote for the original Mule team fixed blades.

I grew up with slip joints and I was very happy when better knives came along.

Hi Tom,

Because a few foundries use the same chemistry does not mean they are all exactly the same.

Hi Doc,

We're thought about this quote a bit. Consumer direct gives the best price, but requires smaller numbers. When we uses the distribution chain, there are many more profits involved, so costs are much higher. Not as many steel junky's out there as you'd think. That's why exclusives work, but they aren't using untested steels.

sal

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:04 pm

Hi Tom,

Because a few foundries use the same chemistry does not mean they are all exactly the same.

Hi Doc,

We're thought about this quote a bit. Consumer direct gives the best price, but requires smaller numbers. When we uses the distribution chain, there are many more profits involved, so costs are much higher. Not as many steel junky's out there as you'd think. That's why exclusives work, but they aren't using untested steels.

sal

I gotcha.

What about releasing the UKPK in steels you have used in other knives? There are many of those I’ve not tried. However, the market might be too small for a non-locking knife.

sal wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:08 am

I will say that Eric is planning a few more Mule Teams with some new steels.

sal

Well !! God bless Eric. And wish him a Merry Christmas!

I too put in my vote for the original fixed blade mule team. Thinking about more of those puts the new year on a positive footing.

Doc Dan wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:10 pm

What about releasing the UKPK in steels you have used in other knives? There are many of those I’ve not tried. However, the market might be too small for a non-locking knife.

That's a great idea. If Spyderco already has Cruwear, M4, 52100, Maxamet, etc, in house, then it would spread their EDC use to a much wider audience if they were available as UKPK sprints. I'd guess that the concern is production schedule time (does it make sense to have golden making a run of 52100 UKPK instead of regular PM2s for example?), but some of those would probably be fast selling and worth the time. I'd bet that Cruwear, M4, and Maxamet would go pretty fast, for example.

TomAiello wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:27 am

Doc Dan wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:10 pm

What about releasing the UKPK in steels you have used in other knives? There are many of those I’ve not tried. However, the market might be too small for a non-locking knife.

That's a great idea. If Spyderco already has Cruwear, M4, 52100, Maxamet, etc, in house, then it would spread their EDC use to a much wider audience if they were available as UKPK sprints. I'd guess that the concern is production schedule time (does it make sense to have golden making a run of 52100 UKPK instead of regular PM2s for example?), but some of those would probably be fast selling and worth the time. I'd bet that Cruwear, M4, and Maxamet would go pretty fast, for example.

Thanks. That was my thinking. At the price of the UKPK we could afford to buy extras for gifts.

Doc Dan wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:10 pm

sal wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:04 pm

Hi Tom,

Because a few foundries use the same chemistry does not mean they are all exactly the same.

Hi Doc,

We're thought about this quote a bit. Consumer direct gives the best price, but requires smaller numbers. When we uses the distribution chain, there are many more profits involved, so costs are much higher. Not as many steel junky's out there as you'd think. That's why exclusives work, but they aren't using untested steels.

sal

I gotcha.

What about releasing the UKPK in steels you have used in other knives? There are many of those I’ve not tried. However, the market might be too small for a non-locking knife.

I like this idea, a lot.

It would be cool to see Cruwear or K390 in a drop point UKPK-- say with brown scales to match the G10 Stretch.