Spyderco Forums

spyderwolf wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:03 am

I don't understand why this need to fix something that was not broken.The Mule was doing great as it was,the only thing hurting the sales was that it was a blank.Not all of us are crafty enough to put even o rope on the tang,so slap some FRN on it and it will sell like crazy,even without a sheath.

It was broken in a sense though. The sales weren't enough to make the project worthwhile for Spyderco. Changes will have to be made, unless enough new interest has built up since the end of the MT series. The fact that the Mules sat for so long, doesn't tell me they were doing well. FOMO(fear of missing out) drove some of the final sales, because there would be no more(at that time).

You could easily slap scales (and a sheath) on it by just adding them to the order when you bought it from the Spyderco web site.

A small folder with a pre-existing pattern would have the advantages of being immediately pocketable, EDC-ready for a much larger number of people, and available at a lower total cost (once you include sheath and scales in the fixed blade price).

Plus, the smaller amount of steel required would mean larger runs, which would keep them in stock longer and reduce the flipping issues. K390 is a pretty hot steel, and the K390 Urban stayed in stock _a lot_ longer than the K390 Mule.

The larger production runs would have some downside for Spyderco (more cost per run) but if they made the program longer and slower (maybe two per year) and/or incorporated a subscription model (to directly pre-sell part of the run), I think it could work.

Sumdumguy wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:39 am

I still think the Caribbean would be the perfect folding mule platform. That would also eliminate the problem with sprint runs, as the Caribbean has none

Wow, I think you have seriously underestimated the Caribbean’s cost of production. I suspect the back-burner status of the XL may reflect this consideration in view of what I take to be modest sales of the original.

Moreover, Caribbean is built to be a Salt. Why would Spyderco change its philosophy of use, given the long hours Sal put into meeting a Salt’s requirements?

Lots of really good points in here. I tend to agree that while a small non-locking folding version would open up the market for them to a broader audience, I think it would also turn a lot more people away who only want locking knives (myself included). I love the idea of selling an initial kit with scales, liners, lock mechanism, etc., then selling interchangeable blades. Give people a few options for scale material/color. And a cleverly designed blade could maybe even give people a few options: a locking version with an optional mod to make it a slipjoint, for example (as we saw a while back with a comp lock mod in another thread).

Not sure how popular a subscription service would be, I think it'd depend a lot on price and options (could you commit to only a few each year, rather than all, etc.).

If the mules remain fixed blades, I agree that providing removable low-cost scales with them - like frn - would probably boost sales. Change the color with each new steel, and let people swap them as they want. It'd sure make them more appealing to me since I can't make my own and buying custom ones adds up quickly. But I also think there are a lot more people that edc folders rather than fixed blades, so getting the broadest test sampling for a new steel would require a folding mule.

Anyhow, based on Sal's recent cryptic bombshell, it sounds like Spyderco already has some kind of plan, and I'm sure excited to see what it is!

I think the elephant in the room is why Spyderco elected to stop the Mule Team Project.

Show of hands! How many here in this already rarefied crowd of steel junkies actually bought mules? And how many have been content to wait on a mulefied steel’s appearance in a folder? I’ll bet the latter group is the larger, and certainly larger than just me.

Besides, doesn’t Spyderco now have enough Project-revealed data to expand its steel offerings in new and promising directions? Plus, it’s not like new steels are being invented everyday. Plus, it’s not like Spyderco needs a mule before going with a new steel...

wrdwrght wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:08 am

Sumdumguy wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:39 am

I still think the Caribbean would be the perfect folding mule platform. That would also eliminate the problem with sprint runs, as the Caribbean has none

Wow, I think you have seriously underestimated the Caribbean’s cost of production. I suspect the back-burner status of the XL may reflect this consideration in view of what I take to be modest sales of the original.

Moreover, Caribbean is built to be a Salt. Why would Spyderco change its philosophy of use, given the long hours Sal put into meeting a Salt’s requirements?

It wont be the exact same materials as the Caribbean, just the platform. The liners and everything will be run of the mill and the blade will be the variable.

I appreciate the Caribbean's design far beyond just being a Salt series. I have been saying that it needs to be it's own model like the PM2 since I purchased it.

wrdwrght wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:30 am

I think the elephant in the room is why Spyderco elected to stop the Mule Team Project.

Show of hands! How many here in this already rarefied crowd of steel junkies actually bought mules? And how many have been content to wait on a mulefied steel’s appearance in a folder? I’ll bet the latter group is the larger, and certainly larger than just me.

Besides, doesn’t Spyderco now have enough Project-revealed data to expand its steel offerings in new and promising directions? Plus, it’s not like new steels are being invented everyday. Plus, it’s not like Spyderco needs a mule before going with a new steel...

By the time I learned they were even a thing the steels I would have purchased one in were sold out and the secondary market wanted way too much. So there is the factor of marketing and how many people even knew Mules were even a thing to begin with.

Were they even sold anywhere else other than Spyderco direct and eBay?

I suggest, if it is to be a folding mule, sell a newly designed handle/ hardware kit and sell the blades seperately. If you sell the whole package there will be private buyers that will swarm on it to sell it for a stupiid high price. Atleast with handle/ hardware sold separate from the blade, you can slow down the scalpers

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:32 pm

wrdwrght wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:30 am

I think the elephant in the room is why Spyderco elected to stop the Mule Team Project.

Show of hands! How many here in this already rarefied crowd of steel junkies actually bought mules? And how many have been content to wait on a mulefied steel’s appearance in a folder? I’ll bet the latter group is the larger, and certainly larger than just me.

Besides, doesn’t Spyderco now have enough Project-revealed data to expand its steel offerings in new and promising directions? Plus, it’s not like new steels are being invented everyday. Plus, it’s not like Spyderco needs a mule before going with a new steel...

By the time I learned they were even a thing the steels I would have purchased one in were sold out and the secondary market wanted way too much. So there is the factor of marketing and how many people even knew Mules were even a thing to begin with.

Were they even sold anywhere else other than Spyderco direct and eBay?

Yeah, I think you had to be here when the pump got primed.

I remember scratching my head for at least my first year here wondering what mules were all about. By the time I had it figured out, I was already getting a satisfying variety of steels in Spydie folders (folders being my attraction to Spyderco), and thought myself fortunate that Mule fans had paved the way.

wrdwrght wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:30 am

Show of hands! How many here in this already rarefied crowd of steel junkies actually bought mules?

I'll raise my hand.

I bought every one after I became aware of the project (maybe number 9 or 10?) and even sought out some of the earlier ones on eBay.

I also have multiples of several.

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:32 pm

Were they even sold anywhere else other than Spyderco direct and eBay?

Nope. Direct sales (from Spyderco) only. The idea was to keep the cost down by reducing the margin, since the distribution/dealership network didn't need to be supported in the project's sales.

eBay sales were just re-sales of Mules bought direct from Spyderco.

wrdwrght wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:30 am

I think the elephant in the room is why Spyderco elected to stop the Mule Team Project.

Show of hands! How many here in this already rarefied crowd of steel junkies actually bought mules? And how many have been content to wait on a mulefied steel’s appearance in a folder? I’ll bet the latter group is the larger, and certainly larger than just me.

Besides, doesn’t Spyderco now have enough Project-revealed data to expand its steel offerings in new and promising directions? Plus, it’s not like new steels are being invented everyday. Plus, it’s not like Spyderco needs a mule before going with a new steel...

I have two complete sets. One of each has a paracord wrap on the handle and mileage on the blade. How much use it saw was largely a function of how well it worked for me. I followed the project from inception to end (or perhaps intermission). I'm still in for two of whatever Sal throws our way.

Always bear in mind the Mule Team project was pretty much non-profit. Mule Team seconds generally sold for about $5 less than the firsts. When sales slowed down and inventory began gathering dust, they couldn't afford to keep it going. They don't have unlimited funds. They can't keep those funds tied up in inventory that isn't moving and remain in business. And that was with no middleman markup, blades made as inexpensively as they possibly could. Adding in the costs of making folders would drive the price way up. Dreams of getting Delicas in all the exotic new steels for just a few dollars more than the regular offerings are just that - dreams. The suggestion of kits that the end user would have to assemble would be a liability nightmare, especially for a compression lock. Properly fitting locks is not something that everyone can do. Selling such kits to anyone with a credit card and an internet connection would be tantamount to strapping into a rocket sled to bankruptcy.

yablanowitz wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:29 pm

wrdwrght wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:30 am

I think the elephant in the room is why Spyderco elected to stop the Mule Team Project.

Show of hands! How many here in this already rarefied crowd of steel junkies actually bought mules? And how many have been content to wait on a mulefied steel’s appearance in a folder? I’ll bet the latter group is the larger, and certainly larger than just me.

Besides, doesn’t Spyderco now have enough Project-revealed data to expand its steel offerings in new and promising directions? Plus, it’s not like new steels are being invented everyday. Plus, it’s not like Spyderco needs a mule before going with a new steel...

The suggestion of kits that the end user would have to assemble would be a liability nightmare, especially for a compression lock.

Good point that I hadn't considered.