52100 performance

[youmakemehole]

I'm happy they made it available in a folder.

The peel ply carbon fiber gives it a much lighter feel then I expected.

People that mirror polish their edges might like the 52100 more then other steels.

Personally Spyderco has given me K390 fever.

The 52100 Paras have a noticeably higher build quality and attention to detail IMO, the peel ply CF is much stiffer than G10, and it might be possible that because of this, some other components were able to be spec'd to tighter tolerances. It feels like the action is just little more smooth and precise than my other G10 paras, not to mention the CF gives it a sharp and satisfying timbre in the click when it opens and closes. For fidgeting, my 51200 P3 holds a special place. Having this steel in a folder is so unique and cool as well, just because its so uncommon to see it in such an application, and also its top class cutting ability is additionally paired with extremely high baton-able toughness. Out of all the Golden flagships, only 4V could probably match/exceed the same level of edge + toughness at the same time.. REX45, M4, and Cruwear could also be contenders here, but while I would comfortable baton my 52100 P3(lockbar disengaged) without hesitation I don't know if I would do the same with something like M4 as willingly.

For me, I am most thankful to Spyderco for opening my eyes to REX45/HAP40. It can be so aggressive and resilient but at the same time super smooth and refined. I really love it a lot. I haven't had the chance to do much with K390 yet, I have a Pingo in that steel but its doing safe queen duty atm... not sure if I should just break it out or keep it fresh and sell it to get like a Police or Urban as a user instead. Id also be quite stoked to see if 15v becomes a possibility – your videos/data never fail to educate and impress and I think I speak for everyone when I say that your contributions are very much appreciated!

[Deadboxhero]

I'm happy they made it available in a folder.

The peel ply carbon fiber gives it a much lighter feel then I expected.

People that mirror polish their edges might like the 52100 more then other steels.

Personally Spyderco has given me K390 fever.

The 52100 Paras have a noticeably higher build quality and attention to detail IMO, the peel ply CF is much stiffer than G10, and it might be possible that because of this, some other components were able to be spec'd to tighter tolerances. It feels like the action is just little more smooth and precise than my other G10 paras, not to mention the CF gives it a sharp and satisfying timbre in the click when it opens and closes. For fidgeting, my 51200 P3 holds a special place. Having this steel in a folder is so unique and cool as well, just because its so uncommon to see it in such an application, and also its top class cutting ability is additionally paired with extremely high baton-able toughness. Out of all the Golden flagships, only 4V could probably match/exceed the same level of edge + toughness at the same time.. REX45, M4, and Cruwear could also be contenders here, but while I would comfortable baton my 52100 P3(lockbar disengaged) without hesitation I don't know if I would do the same with something like M4 as willingly.

For me, I am most thankful to Spyderco for opening my eyes to REX45/HAP40. It can be so aggressive and resilient but at the same time super smooth and refined. I really love it a lot. I haven't had the chance to do much with K390 yet, I have a Pingo in that steel but its doing safe queen duty atm... not sure if I should just break it out or keep it fresh and sell it to get like a Police or Urban as a user instead. Id also be quite stoked to see if 15v becomes a possibility – your videos/data never fail to educate and impress and I think I speak for everyone when I say that your contributions are very much appreciated!

Yea the 52100 is a nice flavor to play with.

Yea I'm really happy someone like Sal is always putting out cool steels so we don't live in a world of only having a few options.

Definitely opened the door for me to really experience the wonder of it all.

My opinion is to drop the pingo and get the P4. The HT on that is bomber and it's a good sized chunk of k390.

It might be too big for your taste though and don't judge the steel by the factory edge either.

[blues]

My opinion is to drop the pingo and get the P4. The HT on that is bomber and it's a good sized chunk of k390.

It might be too big for your taste though and don't judge the steel by the factory edge either.

That's the only thing that has held me back. I hope we'll see the steel in a more practical size in future. (I'd prefer something a little less reedy at the tip as well.)

Until then, the Military in REX 45 will have to suffice. I suppose I can also carry the Urban K390 paired up with the Military if I get antsy in the meantime.

[Barmoley]

...and also its top class cutting ability is additionally paired with extremely high baton-able toughness. Out of all the Golden flagships, only 4V could probably match/exceed the same level of edge + toughness at the same time.. REX45, M4, and Cruwear could also be contenders here, but while I would comfortable baton my 52100 P3(lockbar disengaged) without hesitation I don't know if I would do the same with something like M4 as willingly.

For me, I am most thankful to Spyderco for opening my eyes to REX45/HAP40. It can be so aggressive and resilient but at the same time super smooth and refined. I really love it a lot. I haven't had the chance to do much with K390 yet, I have a Pingo in that steel but its doing safe queen duty atm... not sure if I should just break it out or keep it fresh and sell it to get like a Police or Urban as a user instead. Id also be quite stoked to see if 15v becomes a possibility – your videos/data never fail to educate and impress and I think I speak for everyone when I say that your contributions are very much appreciated!

Well heat treated 52100 is a great steel. It does well at different applications and has a great following in high end kitchen knives for example due to its ability to support very acute, thin edges and having better wear resistance than very simple carbon steels like 1095, white 2, etc So good steel, but do we have to give it magical properties? Tool steels like M4, 4V, K390, etc will not crumble if you just look at them, you can baton with them. Look at the guys in cutting competitions 4V and v4e are all the rage, but M4 was the previous champion. The heat treat and geometry are different of course, but you don't see them using 52100 and they can use any steel they want. So no bad steels, just bad steels for some applications, and small folder is probably not the best application for 52100, even heat treated by Spyderco. Look at Larrin's articles 52100 is good, but it is just a simple carbon steel.

[Deadboxhero]

My opinion is to drop the pingo and get the P4. The HT on that is bomber and it's a good sized chunk of k390.

It might be too big for your taste though and don't judge the steel by the factory edge either.

That's the only thing that has held me back. I hope we'll see the steel in a more practical size in future. (I'd prefer something a little less reedy at the tip as well.)

Until then, the Military in REX 45 will have to suffice. I suppose I can also carry the Urban K390 paired up with the Military if I get antsy in the meantime.

I think that's the only thing keeping K390 from peoples hands is that they just a more EDC sized model.

An Endela sprint in K390 would be wonderful.

[The Mastiff]

but you don't see them using 52100 and they can use any steel they want.

52100 has been used at cutting competitions as I recall . Ed Schempp makes his own laminate with 52100 and 15N20 using 52100 as the core. He uisn't the only one that has used 52100 IIRC.

Joe

[Barmoley]

but you don't see them using 52100 and they can use any steel they want.

52100 has been used at cutting competitions as I recall . Ed Schempp makes his own laminate with 52100 and 15N20 using 52100 as the core. He uisn't the only one that has used 52100 IIRC.

Joe

I am sure it is used and has been used as well as 5160, 1084, 1086, A2, 3V etc. I should've said is not commonly or generally used. This really wasn't the point I was trying to make, it is a good well rounded steel when heat treated well, that performs similar to steels from the same group that are heat treated well. Larrin has a good article about it https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/01/28/ ... 100-steel/ .

I just don't understand why it needs to be sensationalized, heat treat no matter how good can only do so much, You can't turn one steel into another with heat treat alone, assuming good heat treat for each steel. Some steels will be better for some applications than others. When someone claims that 52100 has better wear resistance than s90v for example when cutting abrasive materials I have to question the validity of the test. Each steel has its place and none of them are best at everything.

[JonLeBlanc]

I'm happy they made it available in a folder.

The peel ply carbon fiber gives it a much lighter feel then I expected.

People that mirror polish their edges might like the 52100 more then other steels.

Personally Spyderco has given me K390 fever.

The 52100 Paras have a noticeably higher build quality and attention to detail IMO, the peel ply CF is much stiffer than G10, and it might be possible that because of this, some other components were able to be spec'd to tighter tolerances. It feels like the action is just little more smooth and precise than my other G10 paras, not to mention the CF gives it a sharp and satisfying timbre in the click when it opens and closes. For fidgeting, my 51200 P3 holds a special place. Having this steel in a folder is so unique and cool as well, just because its so uncommon to see it in such an application, and also its top class cutting ability is additionally paired with extremely high baton-able toughness. Out of all the Golden flagships, only 4V could probably match/exceed the same level of edge + toughness at the same time.. REX45, M4, and Cruwear could also be contenders here, but while I would comfortable baton my 52100 P3(lockbar disengaged) without hesitation I don't know if I would do the same with something like M4 as willingly.

For me, I am most thankful to Spyderco for opening my eyes to REX45/HAP40. It can be so aggressive and resilient but at the same time super smooth and refined. I really love it a lot. I haven't had the chance to do much with K390 yet, I have a Pingo in that steel but its doing safe queen duty atm... not sure if I should just break it out or keep it fresh and sell it to get like a Police or Urban as a user instead. Id also be quite stoked to see if 15v becomes a possibility – your videos/data never fail to educate and impress and I think I speak for everyone when I say that your contributions are very much appreciated!

Yea the 52100 is a nice flavor to play with.

Yea I'm really happy someone like Sal is always putting out cool steels so we don't live in a world of only having a few options.

Definitely opened the door for me to really experience the wonder of it all.

My opinion is to drop the pingo and get the P4. The HT on that is bomber and it's a good sized chunk of k390.

It might be too big for your taste though and don't judge the steel by the factory edge either.

I have to second these praises of the 52100 (Para)Military family; they are by far my favorite Spyderco's, and I've harped on their virtues before so I won't bother y'all with them again but I very much hope that Spyderco keeps producing 52100 models, and that even the Paras continue to be available in the future for people who want them! (Sorry, I'm hoarding a couple lol)

[The Mastiff]

Each steel has its place and none of them are best at everything.

Exactly. I can't put it any better. :)

I am a fan of 52100 for it's abilities but I like a bunch of other ones too. I'm glad Sal/Spyderco decided to do a run of it in folders for those of us who do like it. It went against the grain and some people don't understand it but that is something Spyderco is known for. I understand why. :D

Joe

[Barmoley]

I am a fan of 52100 too. I have it in a few kitchen knives and it is excellent.

[Woodpuppy]

An Endela sprint in K390 would be wonderful.

Oh yes this very much please.

[youmakemehole]

...and also its top class cutting ability is additionally paired with extremely high baton-able toughness. Out of all the Golden flagships, only 4V could probably match/exceed the same level of edge + toughness at the same time.. REX45, M4, and Cruwear could also be contenders here, but while I would comfortable baton my 52100 P3(lockbar disengaged) without hesitation I don't know if I would do the same with something like M4 as willingly.

For me, I am most thankful to Spyderco for opening my eyes to REX45/HAP40. It can be so aggressive and resilient but at the same time super smooth and refined. I really love it a lot. I haven't had the chance to do much with K390 yet, I have a Pingo in that steel but its doing safe queen duty atm... not sure if I should just break it out or keep it fresh and sell it to get like a Police or Urban as a user instead. Id also be quite stoked to see if 15v becomes a possibility – your videos/data never fail to educate and impress and I think I speak for everyone when I say that your contributions are very much appreciated!

Well heat treated 52100 is a great steel. It does well at different applications and has a great following in high end kitchen knives for example due to its ability to support very acute, thin edges and having better wear resistance than very simple carbon steels like 1095, white 2, etc So good steel, but do we have to give it magical properties? Tool steels like M4, 4V, K390, etc will not crumble if you just look at them, you can baton with them. Look at the guys in cutting competitions 4V and v4e are all the rage, but M4 was the previous champion. The heat treat and geometry are different of course, but you don't see them using 52100 and they can use any steel they want. So no bad steels, just bad steels for some applications, and small folder is probably not the best application for 52100, even heat treated by Spyderco. Look at Larrin's articles 52100 is good, but it is just a simple carbon steel.

Yeah I apologize if any overstatement made on my part was upsetting, if it wasn't clear that I was trying make a stronger point with my own subjective opinions hopefully it is now! You ever argue and have to say something a little too biased in one direction in hopes of offsetting an incorrect bias in the other direction? :p Might be what happened here. But back to 52100, it is just a simple carbon steel, and that is what makes it beautiful - simple carbon steels have reliably very tough, staying more consistent with varying heat treats and geometries relative to supersteels. I know M4 is tough, I guess I could try letting it handle some more with confidence in the future, although I do know on P2's P3's it is treated to a rather high HRC and I have seen chippage on M4 in videos, which regardless of cause, just takes away a little confidence. The 52100 on the other hand, I don't have to worry at all, just the other day I stepped on it with my entire body weight to cut through hard plastic without any so much as to even dulling. If M4 is a trooper like that then thats fantastic, it will just have to take a little time for me to get comfortable with it.

Personally I don't think any non-stainless can or will ever be considered ideal for a folder. I think I've read somewhere that LC200N is quite similar to 52100, I believe it as they cut and sharpen quite similarly, my 52100 and LC200N knife always line up in their maintenance schedules and they both take the same grind progression and edge finish. The 52100 might have a slightly better HT it feels... Anyways though, as a stainless 52100, LC200N would be so amazing in the Paramilitary family... I wonder why we haven't seen it yet? Perhaps it might just implode the knife market... hopefully they are making sure they have the means to manufacture enough. :D Probably more likely they are saving that run for a special occasion.

[blues]

Personally I don't think any non-stainless can or will ever be considered ideal for a folder. I think I've read somewhere that LC200N is quite similar to 52100, I believe it as they cut and sharpen quite similarly, my 52100 and LC200N knife always line up in their maintenance schedules and they both take the same grind progression and edge finish. The 52100 might have a slightly better HT it feels... Anyways though, as a stainless 52100, LC200N would be so amazing in the Paramilitary family... I wonder why we haven't seen it yet? Perhaps it might just implode the knife market... hopefully they are making sure they have the means to manufacture enough. :D Probably more likely they are saving that run for a special occasion.

FWIW, P.J. Tomes, (ABS Master Smith), would use Sandvik 12C27 as the stainless alternative to his forged 52100 knives he was rightly famous for. He told me that 12C27 gave him the closest performance and characteristics to his forged blades.

Now that conversation was a few years back...so I can't comment on whether he would pick something different today.

[youmakemehole]

I just don't understand why it needs to be sensationalized, heat treat no matter how good can only do so much, You can't turn one steel into another with heat treat alone, assuming good heat treat for each steel. Some steels will be better for some applications than others. When someone claims that 52100 has better wear resistance than s90v for example when cutting abrasive materials I have to question the validity of the test. Each steel has its place and none of them are best at everything.

Did you watch the video In the first post? I came prepared for people who would say this :D

FWIW, P.J. Tomes, (ABS Master Smith), would use Sandvik 12C27 as the stainless alternative to his forged 52100 knives he was rightly famous for. He told me that 12C27 gave him the closest performance and characteristics to his forged blades.

Now that conversation was a few years back...so I can't comment on whether he would pick something different today.

I believe it was the Manly Wasp in 12c27 that was making rounds in cut test videos and achieving absurd beyond-supersteel level results with their 61-62 HRC HT. The geometry helped a lot I'm sure as well, but geometry alone is not going to make something cut cardboard better than a supersteel by 10%+. I've got a few knives in 12c27 and I like them a lot, I have a Wasp as well and it does seem to have the best HT by far. 14c28n behaves very similarly too (in everything other than performance), if not even feels finer, sharper, and more polishable, i believe its also a lot more corrosion resistant too. I don't think anyones found a good enough HT for it though as it dulls fairly quickly which is a ruinous downside.