Does Made in America Need to be Expensive?

[Darth_cholo]

Being an American I am naturally biased towards domestic products; however, the overarching consideration for me is not country of origin but quality. In a knife, this means good blade steel and handle materials, solid, functional, and safe construction, and outstanding fit and finish.

Give me a choice between two identical knives, one made in Japan and the other in the USA, and I will pick the USA model.

Give me a choice between a high quality Japanese-made knife and a mediocre USA-made knife, and I will pick the Japanese model.

This!

[Cujobob]

Couple of things:

When you purchase from other countries, your dollar is then exchanged for the going rate and if your dollar is strong - you come out a winner. Part of the reason why Taichung, Taiwan is used is because of that exchange rate. Those employees earn a good living and their quality shows.

The USA is going to be known for sub-par products in the not too distant future. What little is made here is either way overpriced or is made so quickly that the attention to detail and parts quality is junk.

Kershaw has made some really good American produced knives, but their ZT line has been known for more QC issues lately and their Kershaw USA line are generally ultra simple knives with inexpensive blade steels. 14C28N is fantastic, but they’re now using 420HC for the budget models. The designs are kept relatively simple and have few parts. Honestly, this is engineering at its best, but I think the cost cutting may be going a bit too far by getting rid of 14C28N.

Spyderco knives have gotten really expensive. I think part of it is that Japan is a costly place to produce and Sal is committed to honoring their relationship despite costs and QC concerns. Adding in some new open mindedness with warranty repair probably didn’t help them. MAP pricing may have driven down the volume of their knives being sold.

[The Mastiff]

MAP pricing may have driven down the volume of their knives being sold.

What makes you think this? Are you in sales and have noticed lower volume?

The knives I buy are waiting list pre order only but I suppose that is more what I buy rather than any market trends.

Joe

[500Nitro]

Adding in some new open mindedness with warranty repair probably didn’t help them.

What do you mean by this ?

Especially "open mindedness with warranty repair"

[sal]

Unless you want wages in the US to drop to Asian/Chinese levels of a few cents an hour,
then yes, expect to pay more for US made items.

Hi Nitro,

I know of few places that pay a few cents per hour. Even the guys pushing the rafts down the Chinese river for tourists all had cell phones. More Audi's and BMW's in Nanjing than in Denver. Don't buy into the BS.

sal

[Eli Chaps]

I don't read this as "Made in America" is expensive so much as "quality made" is expensive. Relatively speaking, I don't find the Colorado versions any different in price than the versions from other countries. Even the Chinese models are priced accordingly to the materials, finish, etc.

There's a ton of junk out there and a lot of it from big name companies. Really step back and consider a Spyderco offering as an overall cutting product. Blade geometry, handle thickness, finish, factory edges, massive variety, etc. These are refined, quality cutting tools. You're going to need to pay for that.

The bottom line is, like it or not, American or not, we now live in a global economy. I work in manufacturing in America but probably ~70% of our product goes to Asia and probably ~85% goes to Asian-owned companies. The world consumer base, in-turn, buys the products they make from our product. And the cycle goes round and round. It's a good thing.

I love supporting the "little guys" and always do my best to shop local and avoid Wal-Mart like the plague, but just buying something based on country of origin is misleading. What about the machines that built the product? Where were they built? What about the trucks that delivered the product? What about the parts in the truck that delivered the product? And so on.

Buy the best quality you can afford and that makes sense for the intended use.

[sal]

Wise words Eli.

sal

[curlyhairedboy]

I'd say made in America doesn't ensure quality, but it does make fixing quality issues a bit easier. Definitely appreciate the kinds of sprints we can see from Spyderco's USA-made category.

[MichaelScott]

Back in the 1960s I was a married Navy enlisted man. I had little extra cash to spare. When we needed a reliable, economic car we bought a VW Beetle. We didn’t buy American. You all know why. I wasn’t spending my hard earned money to support the people in Detroit who were turning out shoddy American product, I went for quality and value.

Today that principle still holds. Buy the best you can afford for your requirements regardless of where it is made. As Eli pointed out, modern business is so globally integrated that few things are actually produced and distributed solely in and by Americans.

Yes, it is satisfying to have a quality knife made in Golden, but I will put my Taichung One-Eyed Jack up against anything from there.

[500Nitro]

Sal

It was an expression more than anything to highlight the differences, although it was used by the CEO of a company here the other day
in a meeting when I commented on containers of beer from Asia NOT being on pallets where as those from Europe are. Difference in unloading is 3 hours vs 1/2 an hour with a forklift. He said "it's cheaper in Asia to pay people a few cents an hour to load it manually".
I Agree though, few would be paid so low but obviously low enough to make it worthwhile where as in Europe it's not.

[sal]

Hi Nitro,

We get pallets from everywhere, including China. There are many USA import laws now regarding pallets. What they can be made of, how they are treated for insects, etc. $12/hr divided by a 6/1 Yuan/dollar I guess could be spun to be $2.00/hr.

sal

[Some1]

Hi Nitro,

We get pallets from everywhere, including China. There are many USA import laws now regarding pallets. What they can be made of, how they are treated for insects, etc. $12/hr divided by a 6/1 Yuan/dollar I guess could be spun to be $2.00/hr.

sal

Pallets are some of the most potentially dangerous items to import/export.

While it's nice to support your country it's not really feasible to always do so. I'm saying this while playing with my entirely well designed and well manufactured PM2 M4/CF exclusive. One of my favorite all time knives and has kicked pretty much everything else out of my pocket, and really, my mind too. It's exactly what i want. However, if this was produced by another company from another country, it'd still be just as good. Kudos to you and Eric for designing and manufacturing such a great knife here in the US, Sal. I'd still be just as happy with the knife if it was made in China or Kenya.

**Typing this on a computer made in china or Indonesia or Korea or someplace other than the US**

[Spyderman91]

Eli Chaps you are one percent spot on with your response.

The reason I love Spyderco as a company is because they offer knives for ever budget, preference, style, personality, and on until forever.
I must admit the title of this forum is very generalized, and does not offer much nuance on the topic at hand but I still believe you "get what you pay for".

Personally, I don't mind spending extra to know that the product was built with precision and to last a lifetime. The attention to detail and quality can be felt immediately in hand. Exhibit A, the Shaman, PM2 and the Manix2 lw sv110.

[wrdwrght]

Need to be expensive? 'Fraid so. Unless you want American workers to submit to Nicaraguan, Cambodian, Chinese etc. conditions of employment.

[sal]

Hi Some1,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[sal]

I might add that it is very difficult to guess the value and quality of a product simply by looking at a picture. Even the size can be difficult.

sal

[Eli Chaps]

**Typing this on a computer made in china or Indonesia or Korea or someplace other than the US**

That's probably true but I can almost guarantee you it has metal product inside it that was refined, cast, and machined in the US.

[JD Spydo]

I'd say made in America doesn't ensure quality, but it does make fixing quality issues a bit easier. Definitely appreciate the kinds of sprints we can see from Spyderco's USA-made category.

Curly that's a great point you make for sure. Because many of the USA manufacturers took for granted that USA citizens would buy their product no matter how bad the quality is. The automotive manufacturers are a prime example of that. From the mid 70s to the early 90s the quality of USA made vehicles was really getting bad there for a while.

Most of us want to be patriotic to our own countries and that's understandable and I'm no exception. But when I was still in the tree-trimming and tree removal business I was insistent that the only chain saws I would buy were mainly Stihl>> most of my Stihls were made in Germany but I did have a couple made at the Virginia Beach, VA USA plant. But I bought STIHL for one big reason>> "Quality & Durability". At that time I couldn't find any USA chain saw producer that came close to STIHL. Now Poulan came in at a very distant second but I had such great luck with STIHL I wouldn't even consider any other brands of saws at all.

For many reasons I've had an affinity for Spyderco's GOLDEN, CO USA made models but when the number count comes in I actually have more Japan made Spyders. I've actually found it intriguing that Japans reputation for high quality cutlery goes back a long time>> actually even centuries.

[500Nitro]

**Typing this on a computer made in china or Indonesia or Korea or someplace other than the US**

That's probably true but I can almost guarantee you it has metal product inside it that was refined, cast, and machined in the US.

Computer chips maybe. Not sure about the metal !

[MichaelScott]

Thinking about this thread, quality and where something is made led me to consider Formula 1 and MotoGP. These venues and vehicles are used to, among other things, test new technologies and procedures that may make their way into production cars and bikes. The respective race series are brutal on both cars and bikes. Mainly the best will survive and do well. It is striking that there are no American F1 cars or GP bikes. Why is that?