Spyderco Forums

jmh58 wrote:Find another job.. And another reason to work for your self..

+1 do what you have to until you can move on.

My place of work doesn't allow knives and I carry a PM2 or Pac Salt daily. In pocket like you mentioned. I don't get paid enough or like this job enough not to carry a Spydie.

There are rules that private businesses insist upon. There are also state statutes. For an example, let’s take concealed carry. My state statutes clearly define where a concealed carry permit holder may NOT carry a weapon. Elsewhere, it is up to the discretion of the business or property owner. Privately posted signs have no force of law, however, if someone carries in a place where the owner does not allow it, the owner can ask a person to leave. Fine. Concealed carry person leaves. No further action can be taken. If the concealed carry person does not leave he or she can be cited for trespass.

If you are asked by your employer not to carry and you disregard that, you can be fired. So, choose your battles, decide what is best for you and act accordingly.

I have simply switched to in-pocket carry and only use discretely in controlled areas. I still carry whatever blade I feel like, usually something with a 2.75" to 4" blade. I work in a large industrial factory as the site IT manager. My most common uses include opening boxes, cutting cable ties, and cutting food. I'd also like to add that having a blade has save my butt a few times when dealing with roof leaks in network closets, impromptu wire stripping, gaining entry to a locked cabinets, etc. Many others at work pocket carry too. Some have gone the small multi-tool route. I simply choose to trust my own judgement and maturity about when and where to use my knife.

In my facility the company has never fired anyone for having a knife. I do know of one confiscation. Repeat offenders would get written up a couple times, but I don't know of anyone being written up. Reason I asked the question is, yesterday in the restroom I noticed a familiar benchmade clip in someones pocket while their jeans were around their ankles under the stall wall. Policy prohibits them from the premises, meaning you're not allowed to have one in your car in the parking lot either. Carrying is just a part of who I am. Keys, wallet, phone, & knife; everyday. I feel naked without a blade. On principle: I choose to have one of the most useful tools humans have ever created on me at all times.

To be honest I could make do without a knife at work, but then I wouldn't have one on the way to or from work, which is where I spend most of my time awake. Then I wouldn't have one on me until I got home, if I remembered to put one in my pocket. Then I wouldn't have one when I needed one which really bothers me. I'll always carry and I'd survive if it came to losing my job over a dumb rule on principle. I second wanimator's view.

Thanks nascar, your comment was helpful. I'll think long and hard about my morals.

As a business they have to do what they have to do. As a person you have to do what you have to do. Do what you need to but don't expect others to change because of it. They probably feel the same way and expect you to not flaunt rule breaking behavior while on their dime. Not too much to ask right? Just don't let anyone know what you have in your pocket. I assume there are no searches right?

You should try working in a high security lock up. They search your lunch. Check to see nothing is in sandwiches and I'm not talking about just waving a metal detector over it.

If you think that's bad then realize as an employee you can't even leave without permission. If there is an escape or power outage they can and will force you to stay the duration.How long does a snow storm last? No calling home to notify family you won't be home. No cell phones allowed. Now that is a restrictive environment. Office environments don't compare with voluntary adherence to their rules. :)

Joe

Joe. That sounds awful. I would not give high security lock up a half a chance. Hats off to those that do.

I surprised by how many comments this question brought on. Knowing that nobody was going to change my mind on the matter, but its nice seeing where and how others stand on the topic.

Thanks everyone.

My company has a vague but still real firearms policy. I have a company car as do my 3 direct reports. My private take to them all is "you do what you need to do to get home to your family". None of them know if I carry a firearm, that I am legally lisenced to do so, or what make of firearm I would carry if I did in fact carry in my car. I also have not said anything difinitive as to their choice but have still said a lot. Read between the lines...

Civil disobedience against laws or regulations that you consider against your personal moral code has a long history in the U.S. IMO, as long as you are not endangering others or pose an identifiable threat you have the obligation to live by your beliefs.

Never had tovdeal with that. I had an office job with a no weapons policy. Never raised any eyebrows using my Police 3 to cut up an apple during lunch each day.

jdw wrote:Civil disobedience against laws or regulations that you consider against your personal moral code has a long history in the U.S. IMO, as long as you are not endangering others or pose an identifiable threat you have the obligation to live by your beliefs.

Really, carrying a knife is part of anyone’s moral code? I mean unless you’re a Siek or something, what’s the big deal? Leave your knife in your car and go on about your business.

I’ve carried knives into a variety of places they weren’t welcome but I see no reason to play games with a paycheck. Or whine about it.

It’s not about money.

MichaelScott wrote:It’s not about money.

Yes it is, otherwise we call it a "hobby" not a job.

I’m grateful to be self employed.

As far as my workplace is concerned: a knife in your car is the same as a knife in your pocket. I'll keep it in my pocket thank you. We have saws, chisels, grinders, drills, forges, mills, and metal shards everywhere throughout the shop. I see people using dangerous tools everywhere I turn. The knife I carry that nobody will ever see but is of use to me multiple times everyday is a non-issue in my book.

"It's not about money" was more meant as "Its about principle". On principle I choose to carry. Yes the job is about the money. I wish to be self employed, but until that is the case I'll ignore my pocket clips.

I would get a multi-tool that would fit in my pocket. I still would not pull it out, even to help someone do something. I would tell them to get a box cutter or scissors.

Joe. That sounds awful. I would not give high security lock up a half a chance.

It's not for everybody to be sure. I have always had a thing about people telling me what to do or not do so yes, it was tough. I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore.

Many or most jobs have rules that aren't enforced but still there. Many in management feel the same way as their employees but can't and won't admit it on the record. They might be doing the same thing as you.

It's just part of the stuff one has to put up with to pay the bills. There is much worse than no knife or gun policies yet when it comes close to crossing the line we personally all have it makes many of us bristle. :)

Joe

jdw wrote:Civil disobedience against laws or regulations that you consider against your personal moral code has a long history in the U.S. IMO, as long as you are not endangering others or pose an identifiable threat you have the obligation to live by your beliefs.

True, as long as you're aware of the consequences of such action and are willing to accept them. Still, I wouldn't call what he's doing civil disobedience. To me, that would require OPENLY violating a regulation in order to protest it. Everyone has a right to live by their beliefs but, like it or not, an employer also has the right to have and enforce company policies that may go counter to your beliefs. He can do as he's doing and ignore those policies, he just won't have any grounds for complaint when he's fired. Finding a job in place where carrying a knife is not against the rules would be a better idea.

zhyla wrote:

jdw wrote:Civil disobedience against laws or regulations that you consider against your personal moral code has a long history in the U.S. IMO, as long as you are not endangering others or pose an identifiable threat you have the obligation to live by your beliefs.

Really, carrying a knife is part of anyone’s moral code? I mean unless you’re a Siek or something, what’s the big deal? Leave your knife in your car and go on about your business.

I’ve carried knives into a variety of places they weren’t welcome but I see no reason to play games with a paycheck. Or whine about it.

The 'moral code' has less to do with the physical object and more to do with the liberty to allow people to decide what's best for them on a personal level and then act on that belief without their livelihood being threatened over a perceived or unsubstantiated threat.

The Deacon wrote:

jdw wrote:Civil disobedience against laws or regulations that you consider against your personal moral code has a long history in the U.S. IMO, as long as you are not endangering others or pose an identifiable threat you have the obligation to live by your beliefs.

True, as long as you're aware of the consequences of such action and are willing to accept them. Still, I wouldn't call what he's doing civil disobedience. To me, that would require OPENLY violating a regulation in order to protest it. Everyone has a right to live by their beliefs but, like it or not, an employer also has the right to have and enforce company policies that may go counter to your beliefs. He can do as he's doing and ignore those policies, he just won't have any grounds for complaint when he's fired. Finding a job in place where carrying a knife is not against the rules would be a better idea.

You make some excellent and well thought points Deacon. I agree with you on many of them but even though a person would have the right to find another job the amount of pay or an employer seeking a specific skill set may not be equivalent. One thing that I absolutely agree with is that true civil disobedience would be to openly challenge the policy and then if fired seek resolution through some sort of arbitration.

zhyla wrote:

MichaelScott wrote:It’s not about money.

Yes it is, otherwise we call it a "hobby" not a job.

I have to disagree. It’s about how many of, or which of your principles you are willing to trade for money. We work, most of us, to make money to support ourselves and others.

Let’s say you have a very high-paying job. A rule is established that says you cannot carry any kind of knife while at work. It violates your principles but you comply because you want to keep that paycheck.

Then a new rule says that you can’t wear anything but clothing made from natural, organic and sustainable materials since any other material is harmful to the environment. And, no leather because an animal suffered to provide your shoes, belt and wallets. You comply because you want to keep that paycheck.

Then a rule is established that you must now refer to any employee with the pronoun they desire for you to use to them: he, she, ze, they, it, etc. There are thirty-seven approved pronouns to choose from. If you don’t comply you can be fired.

At some point you have to just say no, or give your life over to someone else because you want to keep that paycheck.

I realize these are extreme illustrations. They are meant to be a simple example of reductio ad absurdum to show that at some point it is about principle and ethics more than money.

We all have to choose where that point is.