Edge retention : 10V and 15n20 on used polypropylene and new hemp

[Bill1170]

Thank you, Jim. Those are elegant customs without being showy.

[Ankerson]

Thank you, Jim. Those are elegant customs without being showy.

Thanks, the top one was more of a test knife/beater to see how the ZAPP A11 did.

Put that knife though a lot when I tested it, now it's just my anything that needs to be cut knife/utility knife. I know that for the most part can't hurt it unless I do something really stupid.

The bottom one is a purpose built kitchen knife, all the nice touches etc. :)

[demoncase]

To go back to the original results, I would draw the conclusion that with a grit-laden hemp rope the difference in edge retention between a 10v blade and the other steel isn't as drastic as we might expect....That's fair enough. I'll wager the HV of the 'grit' retained in the rope is probably in the 1000HV+ (70HRC+) region, compared to the lower hardness of the blade steels.

The follow on results provided show that 10v is significantly better in edge retention on some other materials compared to the 'control' steel- Again, fair enough.

I can see subsequent posters getting a bit frothy about this, but where's the issue?- 10v is an excellent steel, but there's going to be materials and cutting situations out there that cause it lose it's edge as rapidly as other steels- that's a comment on the abrasiveness of the material being cut as much as the steel itself....To me it says "Grit laden hemp rope is the great leveller on blade steels"

Knives are not lightsabres.
They will go blunt with use, no matter how boutique the steel is.
Provided you know how to sharpen your knife afterwards, why get upset?

[Stuart Ackerman]

Knives are not lightsabres.
They will go blunt with use, no matter how boutique the steel is.
Provided you know how to sharpen your knife afterwards, why get upset?

Those words are profound, and sum up the reality of knives and the use thereof! :) :cool:
Life is too short to have a bunch of unused knives in safes and drawers... :)

[Cliff Stamp]

I have no interest in supporting Darrin, but I am curious if he will support the claim of his knives being used daily for over a year and still push cutting newsprint.

I have 10V from Wilson of course and other variants of the steel. Jeremy McCullen is working with 10V now, I might pick up a knife from him as he is starting his own hardening now and has a HRC tester and I am curious about a few cycle variants.

[Ankerson]

I have no interest in supporting Darrin, but I am curious if he will support the claim of his knives being used daily for over a year and still push cutting newsprint.

Who in the **** said anything about that. :rolleyes: :mad:

I already addressed it wasn't used everyday. :rolleyes: :mad:

*EDITED - Childish and unnecessary** - TazKristi

Not daily use.

Just around the house when things need to be cut, that's outside of kitchen use.

I don't EDC fixed blades.

Although I do have a knife I use in the kitchen almost everyday in S110V that I might have to touch up like once every 8 or 9 months when it starts to lose bite. It really never gets dull, always will still slice news print easy before I touch it up.

[Cliff Stamp]

Jim,

This was your original post :

What I call my box cutter, Custom in ZAPP A11 (3.25" blade) that has the same overall geometry as an SAK has been doing very well.

Haven't had to touch the edge for the most part since June of last year other than after I whittled an Opinel Blade with it like a piece of wood just because I could.

After that, haven't touched it since, sprayed it down with WD-40 today to get the junk off the blade and it still will push cut phone book paper so no need to touch the edge yet. :)

No formal testing, just real world use as I use it to cut anything that needs to be cut outside of the kitchen.

After that you clarified that you don't carry it outside the house, so only in the house. Now you are saying that you don't use the knife every day and beyond that that is is completely unreasonable for a person to assume that you actually use the knife each day, such an extreme leap that it is complete BS and even worth banning someone. Now given your constant talk about how much you use knives and your extensive experience, I though it fairly reasonable to assume you used a knife at least once a day in general utility work.

Ok, you have have corrected that mistake and clarified that days pass that you don't use the knife. You might have wanted to mention that when you claimed over a year of use as obviously the days used, not the time inbetween them is relevant. So to clarify, how often do you actually use that knife which went more than an entire year without losing the ability to push cut newsprint? Once a week, one a month?

--

As an aside :

And why you have been banned just about everyplace on the internet.

To once again I will correct this constant lie you like to repeat. I have been banned from one knife forum, Bladeforums, and the reason why is in my last post which is readily available. I criticized Spark for not holding up to the principles that Mike Stewart advocated when he formed Bladeforums. I have stopping posting on two other forums, not banned, my accounts are still active, I just don't support censorship and have a fairly strict policy on that.

Now how about you actually respect Sal's rules that you agreed to do when you signed up here and actually talk about knives and not people.

[Ankerson]

No Cliff,

*EDITED - Childish and unnecessary** - TazKristi


Sal is a 1st class guy IMO. :)

[FCM415]

Sal is a nice guy.

*EDITED - Childish and unnecessary** - TazKristi

Yes Jim blew his top here but we must know the reason for it. If we go by track record, I can count with one hand the amount of forum members in the various knife sites that he had a 'loud' disagreement with.... Pretty good considering the amount of debates he is in.

...And no, I am on neither side of the carbide argument....and yes I learn a lot from Cliff too. We all do, it isn't about that.

[Ankerson]

Yeah I usually don't get in very many arguments, less as time goes by. :)

I really try an be nice to everyone and have a nice discussion about stuff.

And I will generally exit the thread when things start to get heated because I don't generally like to be in those type of threads.

But when people twist my words around and try to stir things up for various reasons I do get lets say defensive to put it nicely.

Sometimes I will ignore it, other times not so much, just depends what the topic is and if I actually catch it.

Never saw the need to cause problems just for the sake of causing problems personally.

Some people just like to argue just for the sake of arguing or to have conflicts just to have conflicts.

I am not one of those people.

[tvenuto]

Some people just like to argue just for the sake of arguing or to have conflicts just to have conflicts.

I am not one of those people.

And yet this was your answer to a perfectly reasonable question?

Jim,

And so who is the maker that crafted this blade out of A11 that holds an edge which push cut newsprint for over a year of daily use?

*EDITED - Childish and unnecessary** - TazKristi

I find it interesting that people who cry foul when they believe Cliff is blowing up someone else's thread are now blowing up this one. If you don't want to interact with Cliff don't post in his thread. Don't claim to want to keep the peace if you really don't want to keep it.

[FCM415]

^
tvenuto, you got a point there and what your saying is, in the end the bottom line. Best way to avoid someone is to def at least avoid threads they started.

That's not always going to happen though and in this case things escalated quickly. What you perceive as a simple question came off to Jim as a challenge. Cliff may not have meant anything of the sort at all but they obviously have a history here and I will go out on a limb and assume that he "read between the lines". Not saying either is incorrect as it is not my "fight" but I'll have to go back to track record. One more thing, Jim's original post seemed jovial and inert lmao.... Yeah it got weird real fast.

[Ankerson]

Some people just like to argue just for the sake of arguing or to have conflicts just to have conflicts.

I am not one of those people.

And yet this was your answer to a perfectly reasonable question?

Jim,

And so who is the maker that crafted this blade out of A11 that holds an edge which push cut newsprint for over a year of daily use?

*EDITED - Childish and unnecessary** - TazKristi

I find it interesting that people who cry foul when they believe Cliff is blowing up someone else's thread are now blowing up this one. If you don't want to interact with Cliff don't post in his thread. Don't claim to want to keep the peace if you really don't want to keep it.

Yeah, it actually was, he knew who made the knife before he asked.

I posted that blade on here before, more than once I believe as a reference to various things.

He and that maker don't get a long at all, that's likely why he supposedly asked to make sure so he could do what he did.

The typical games that he plays.

Punch in ZAPP A11 in the search on this forum and it will pop up.

And no I didn't imply anything about using a knife everyday constant use for a year etc, etc.

And when he said something about it, I posted no not everyday.

That was ignored and then the BS started.

[edged]

Let's be real here. Cliff is a guy with a PhD who shares the results of experiments he does with knives (in the real world). He's more than happy to answer any questions people have about them, or anything knife related. That's a pretty valuable guy to have around if you like knives.

In this thread Ankerson comes in to make an incredible sounding, but unrelated post about his Custom knife. Cliff asks for more detail and Ankerson proceeds to backpedal on the claim, belittle Cliff and make personal attacks. FCM415 joins in to bash Cliff and encourage the forum owner to ban him.

In what universe does this make sense?

[Ankerson]

Let's be real here. Cliff is a guy with a PhD who shares the results of experiments he does with knives (in the real world). He's more than happy to answer any questions people have about them, or anything knife related. That's a pretty valuable guy to have around if you like knives.

In this thread Ankerson comes in to make an incredible sounding, but unrelated post about his Custom knife. Cliff asks for more detail and Ankerson proceeds to backpedal on the claim, belittle Cliff and make personal attacks. FCM415 joins in to bash Cliff and encourage the forum owner to ban him.

In what universe does this make sense?

You want to get real?

I can get very real if you really want.

I don't think the Spyderco crew would like that too much if I did that though.

I really don't think you want to go there.

The best thing to do is back off and let it alone.

[Mic1]

Let's be real here. Cliff is a guy with a PhD who shares the results of experiments he does with knives (in the real world). He's more than happy to answer any questions people have about them, or anything knife related. That's a pretty valuable guy to have around if you like knives.

In this thread Ankerson comes in to make an incredible sounding, but unrelated post about his Custom knife. Cliff asks for more detail and Ankerson proceeds to backpedal on the claim, belittle Cliff and make personal attacks. FCM415 joins in to bash Cliff and encourage the forum owner to ban him.

In what universe does this make sense?

I am no fan of BF or some of its older members and admin. I don't even go there anymore. I even once called Ankerson a troll. I like that here most of the BS and bullying is not allowed. The reason that I don't agree with cliff is that he does not post information just to be informative he constantly post things to stir up debate for his own amusement and when he is challenged by anyone or some one has differing results ( in the real world) he goes on attack with dissertations on why your wrong to think any different than him or have results different than his and why he is right. You don't agree with his testing methods then he becomes condescending rude and confrontational. He likes this attention and to debate. My father in law is the exact same way. When you behave this way it is hard for some to look past no matter how good or valuable your information is. I have read most of his latest posts there is some good information in them and some I completely disagree with. He may be the smartest guy in the room with PHD and microscope but his delivery is like pouring sand in your boxers and going for a run.

[edged]

You want to get real?

I can get very real if you really want.

I don't think the Spyderco crew would like that too much if I did that though.

I really don't think you want to go there.

The best thing to do is back off and let it alone.

Talk is cheap. :)

Be honest. If someone made constant and incredible claims but got angry and refused to go into detail when asked, what would you think? How much stock would you put in their claims?

[edged]

I am no fan of BF or some of its older members and admin. I don't even go there anymore. I even once called Ankerson a troll. But the reason that I don't agree with cliff is that he does not post information just to be informative he constantly post things to stir up debate for his own amusement and when he is challenged by anyone or some one has differing results ( in the real world) he goes on attack with dissertations on why your wrong to think any different than him or have results different than his and why he is right. You don't agree with his testing methods then he becomes condescending rude and confrontational. He likes this attention and to debate. My father in law is the exact same way. When you behave this way it is hard for some to look past no matter how good or valuable your information is. I have read most of his latest posts there is some good information in them and some completely disagree with. He may be the smartest guy in the room with PHD and microscope but his delivery is like pouring sand in your boxers and going for a run.

From what I've seen most of it comes down to people not being able to accept that they have holes in their logic or understanding. Cliff doesn't sugarcoat it but he isn't rude either. What is telling is that people attack Cliff personally, not his logic. I haven't seen him do that.

[Ankerson]

You want to get real?

I can get very real if you really want.

I don't think the Spyderco crew would like that too much if I did that though.

I really don't think you want to go there.

The best thing to do is back off and let it alone.

Talk is cheap. :)

Be honest. If someone made constant and incredible claims but got angry and refused to go into detail when asked, what would you think? How much stock would you put in their claims?

I don't need to copy and paste out of a book to go into detail.

I keep things short and to the point.

And I did answer his question, it was no not everyday.

That was ignored.....

[Ankerson]

I am no fan of BF or some of its older members and admin. I don't even go there anymore. I even once called Ankerson a troll. But the reason that I don't agree with cliff is that he does not post information just to be informative he constantly post things to stir up debate for his own amusement and when he is challenged by anyone or some one has differing results ( in the real world) he goes on attack with dissertations on why your wrong to think any different than him or have results different than his and why he is right. You don't agree with his testing methods then he becomes condescending rude and confrontational. He likes this attention and to debate. My father in law is the exact same way. When you behave this way it is hard for some to look past no matter how good or valuable your information is. I have read most of his latest posts there is some good information in them and some completely disagree with. He may be the smartest guy in the room with PHD and microscope but his delivery is like pouring sand in your boxers and going for a run.

From what I've seen most of it comes down to people not being able to accept that they have holes in their logic or understanding. Cliff doesn't sugarcoat it but he isn't rude either. What is telling is that people attack Cliff personally, not his logic. I haven't seen him do that.

That's actually really funny. ROFL :D

Needed some humor in the thread.