Not ready to be sprinted, but inevitable!

[JD Spydo]

The more I think about it I do believe it's high time for another run of the C-60 Ayoob model :cool: It's sad that it can't be done in Spyderedge but it would be cool if they could do a Sprint in another blade steel. I know in my gut there are a lot of Ayoob fans that would come out of the woodwork for the C-60 Ayoob.

Again the G-10 Harpy is simply overdue >> just look at the new life the Police model got when reintroduced in G-10 again. Actually a G-10 Spyderhawk would be great as well.

Talk about a really LONG SHOT>> how about a "VAGABOND" model with a supersteel blade instead of the mundane AUS-6 it had the first go around. I thought that the concept of the Ayoob as being a great all purpose camp knife was right on but one with a new blade steel might be extremely appealing.

I"m beginning to believe that a Spyderedged CAPTAIN model would be a really DARK HORSE :D

[paladin]

Talk about a really LONG SHOT>> how about a "VAGABOND" model with a supersteel blade instead of the mundane AUS-6 it had the first go around.

JD...that is a BRILLIANT idea...refine the ergos just a little bit also...My Vagabond has some sharp edges....also maybe a better system to more "positively" lock the integral sheath in open & storage modes...

Oh & let's don't forget a toothy version also! :eek: :spyder:

[SpeedHoles]

No brainer: Dice in CTS-204P and blue G10

Dark Horse: blacked-out Techno (like Southard)

Long Shot: Yojimbo 2 M4

[spydieh0le]

No Brainer: Manix, Techno

Dark Horse: Nilakka, Chokwe, Vallotton

Long Shot: Captain, Kris, Barong

[GoldenSpydie]

No Brainer: PM2 in M4, K390, and S110V as well as a Manix in 204P and a Chinook in a new steel

Dark Horse: Nilakka in D2 or 01

Long Shot: Mini Manix in a tool steel

[The Mastiff]

How about a SK- 5 ( 1080ish) carbon steel version of the Cara Cara and Raven? Plain edge and dead simple reminding us old timers of the old Schrade and Camillus knives that would be out in both stainless and Carbon steel. Case still does this but not really anything like a large, tough lockback with a FFG blade of a good, tough, easy to sharpen steel. If the price was kept almost as low as the stainless original models the carbon steel variant might do well.

I'd keep them the same. No fancying up. Maybe a name to help the mind differentiate the SK5 non stainless variant from the original version.

It's clear the newer models and protos are pricing folks like me on fixed incomes (retired) out of the market. Time to invest in the old guys like me, but more importantly the next up and coming steel nuts with a bit of chum in the water. Some companies have begun having S35VN knives made in PRC. Not what I recommend. High price and PRC made still turn some people off. There are lots of $60 to $80 Chinese models with premium steels such as S35VN. Don't compete with that. Put out $35 high quality carbon steel knives of modern design.

Joe

[Ankerson]

How about a SK- 5 ( 1080ish) carbon steel version of the Cara Cara and Raven? Plain edge and dead simple reminding us old timers of the old Schrade and Camillus knives that would be out in both stainless and Carbon steel. Case still does this but not really anything like a large, tough lockback with a FFG blade of a good, tough, easy to sharpen steel. If the price was kept almost as low as the stainless original models the carbon steel variant might do well.

I'd keep them the same. No fancying up. Maybe a name to help the mind differentiate the SK5 non stainless variant from the original version.

It's clear the newer models and protos are pricing folks like me on fixed incomes (retired) out of the market. Time to invest in the old guys like me, but more importantly the next up and coming steel nuts with a bit of chum in the water. Some companies have begun having S35VN knives made in PRC. Not what I recommend. High price and PRC made still turn some people off. There are lots of $60 to $80 Chinese models with premium steels such as S35VN. Don't compete with that. Put out $35 high quality carbon steel knives of modern design.

Joe

Joe,

You know as well as I do that sub $40 market is over saturated already, most of the knives made overall across the board are in that lower range by far.

[bearfacedkiller]

But are they of any decent quality? If this 52100 ukpk comes to fruition I am a buyer. If a 52100 LW Native were to some how miraculously happen that would also be money easily spent. Sure I could get a Svord peasant or something like it but it isn't a Spyderco. I like Spydies, I like supporting Spyderco and they can built a budget knife that won't fall apart and that can be safe and reliable. While I do not want a Chinese option as Joe suggests I would love a domestic economy model in a carbon steel.

[Ankerson]

But are they of any decent quality? If this 52100 ukpk comes to fruition I am a buyer. If a 52100 LW Native were to some how miraculously happen that would also be money easily spent. Sure I could get a Svord peasant or something like it but it isn't a Spyderco. I like Spydies, I like supporting Spyderco and they can built a budget knife that won't fall apart and that can be safe and reliable. While I do not want a Chinese option as Joe suggests I would love a domestic economy model in a carbon steel.

The problem is that Spyderco already has knives in that range, a whole line of them at this time, the Byrd line.

So to add another one to that list and with the vast amount of knives already available it would be a HUGE risk.

Look at it this way, take a 55 Gallon drum, you could fill it with all of the different models that are in that range.

Now dump it out on the ground....

That's kinda what that market is like in that range.

[tvenuto]

Talk about a really LONG SHOT>> how about a "VAGABOND" model with a supersteel blade instead of the mundane AUS-6 it had the first go around.

JD...that is a BRILLIANT idea...refine the ergos just a little bit also...My Vagabond has some sharp edges....also maybe a better system to more "positively" lock the integral sheath in open & storage modes...

Oh & let's don't forget a toothy version also! :eek: :spyder:

You guys are killing me! You want a Vagabond with a better steel, better egros, more positive storage system, and maybe even serrated? I give you: the Aqua Salt. It's even in H1 this time!

[tvenuto]

The problem is that Spyderco already has knives in that range, a whole line of them at this time, the Byrd line.

So to add another one to that list and with the vast amount of knives already available it would be a HUGE risk.

Look at it this way, take a 55 Gallon drum, you could fill it with all of the different models that are in that range.

Now dump it out on the ground....

That's kinda what that market is like in that range.

I'm not sure I follow the whole drum analogy, but I have to agree that sprints of "value" models don't make much sense to me for a few reasons. We are talking about sprints after all, which in spyderco-land means: 1. Limited, and 2. Different than any other version of that model made previously.

There is almost certainly increased cost caused by using either a blade steel or handle material/color that was not being used in the production version. Remember, time is money, and even a less sophisticated steel would cause changes to the processing that would likely cost time. So even the the margin remains the same, the sprint would most likely be more expensive. And assuming the same margin, spyderco makes 3 times the amount off of a $105 PM2 that it does off the $35 Byrd (just to use some easy numbers). So to make a given profit, the Byrd sprint would have to be 3 times the size of the PM2 sprint. And then keep in mind the overhead cost of scheduling the run, keeping track of it, new labels printed etc. All stuff you don't have to do if you just keep churning out regular Byrds.

[Ankerson]

The problem is that Spyderco already has knives in that range, a whole line of them at this time, the Byrd line.

So to add another one to that list and with the vast amount of knives already available it would be a HUGE risk.

Look at it this way, take a 55 Gallon drum, you could fill it with all of the different models that are in that range.

Now dump it out on the ground....

That's kinda what that market is like in that range.

I'm not sure I follow the whole drum analogy, but I have to agree that sprints of "value" models don't make much sense to me for a few reasons. We are talking about sprints after all, which in spyderco-land means: 1. Limited, and 2. Different than any other version of that model made previously.

There is almost certainly increased cost caused by using either a blade steel or handle material/color that was not being used in the production version. Remember, time is money, and even a less sophisticated steel would cause changes to the processing that would likely cost time. So even the the margin remains the same, the sprint would most likely be more expensive. And assuming the same margin, spyderco makes 3 times the amount off of a $105 PM2 that it does off the $35 Byrd (just to use some easy numbers). So to make a given profit, the Byrd sprint would have to be 3 times the size of the PM2 sprint. And then keep in mind the overhead cost of scheduling the run, keeping track of it, new labels printed etc. All stuff you don't have to do if you just keep churning out regular Byrds.

It was more like a needle in a haystack type of thing, add one more needle in a stack of needles if you get my meaning.

Spyderco will do what it wants to do in the end however.

Personally I wouldn't even think about doing it if I was making the decisions.

I doubt the cost factor that you pointed out would be worth it, I think they would lose money on it.

Now if it was something like a Delica in say White Steel, something they could actually market, maybe.... That might make more since, I don't think it would be $35 though.

[tvenuto]

It was more like a needle in a haystack type of thing, add one more needle in a stack of needles if you get my meaning.

Spyderco will do what it wants to do in the end however.

Personally I wouldn't even think about doing it if I was making the decisions.

I doubt the cost factor that you pointed out would be worth it, I think they would lose money on it.

Now if it was something like a Delica in say White Steel, something they could actually market, maybe.... That might make more since, I don't think it would be $35 though.

I see, makes sense and I agree. I was thinking it was something like "models in this segment are dirt (ground)." But yes, limited runs cost money, and development of new models costs money. The more knives you have to sell to recoup that money, the riskier it is to do. Per your example, the Delica is already extremely popular, not much risk in throwing a different steel on it. There are even people so crazy to declare here that they'll buy any sprint FRN Delica no matter what the steel! (not naming names )

[Bodog]

"Now if it was something like a Delica in say White Steel, something they could actually market."

I agree.

I'd like to see an upgraded Centofante, look exactly the same but maybe with some Ti or Al handles and an adjustable pivot. That's my longshot.

Also, something like the civilian with 3V steel.

[Ankerson]

It was more like a needle in a haystack type of thing, add one more needle in a stack of needles if you get my meaning.

Spyderco will do what it wants to do in the end however.

Personally I wouldn't even think about doing it if I was making the decisions.

I doubt the cost factor that you pointed out would be worth it, I think they would lose money on it.

Now if it was something like a Delica in say White Steel, something they could actually market, maybe.... That might make more since, I don't think it would be $35 though.

I see, makes sense and I agree. I was thinking it was something like "models in this segment are dirt (ground)." But yes, limited runs cost money, and development of new models costs money. The more knives you have to sell to recoup that money, the riskier it is to do. Per your example, the Delica is already extremely popular, not much risk in throwing a different steel on it. There are even people so crazy to declare here that they'll buy any sprint FRN Delica no matter what the steel! (not naming names )

Just making a model to be cheap doesn't make any since at all as there are already so many out there now as I was saying before. The chance of losing money on it is just too great. That's why I have always had such a hard stance on this topic, that won't change either.

But if you take a model that already sells great like the Delica and add a different Steel like White Steel that they could actually market in that model based on prior sales like Super Blue etc it might have a good chance of being worth it.

It might be different if some distributor or large Company Like Wal-Mart wanted something, say 100,000 units as an example that would be bought. They could run the numbers to see if it would be profitable and the units would be sold as in Spyderco would have their money.

[Joris Mo]

Native 5 in FRN with M4!!
Main reason not to make this sprint is because it might be commercially successful enough for regular production although I believe there's already a S110V version coming so they probably won't make another regular production steel option.

PM2 in M4 should already be in process I guess?.. :)

M4 is such a nice working steel that I think it would be great in any FRN users, shame the Japanese FRN's can't be done in it.

Some knives in 3V would also be a great idea!

[bearfacedkiller]

Maybe 52100 is a poor example. I understand the marketing perspective. Make it a steel many people haven't had a chance to experience and then maybe it would be less risky.

What about a Native5 LW or Manix LW in L6? I am not sure if that is economical or available because I don't really know too much about it. Would something like this be more feasible or is there another steel that could work?

[Ankerson]

Maybe 52100 is a poor example. I understand the marketing perspective. Make it a steel many people haven't had a chance to experience and then maybe it would be less risky.

What about a Native5 LW or Manix LW in L6? I am not sure if that is economical or available because I don't really know too much about it. Would something like this be more feasible or is there another steel that could work?

I think it would have to be made overseas to hit that price range no matter what the steel was.

Something like a BD1 Manix 2 LW is over $70, the steel won't make that much of a drop going down from BD-1.

That's why I mentioned the Byrd line, they are cheap already, it's much more than just the steel that makes them cheap.

Or the Delica in the White Steel, won't be $35 but it would sell.

It has to make since.....

[bearfacedkiller]

Yeah, I hear ya. I didn't think it would be any cheaper than the BD1 version. I'm just thinking out loud. (Well, in type actually :) )

[Ankerson]

Yeah, I hear ya. I didn't think it would be any cheaper than the BD1 version. I'm just thinking out loud. (Well, in type actually :) )

That $35 range doesn't give Spyderco any room to work with other than something like the Byrd line.

That's the main reason why I always post what I do when these threads come up.

Start pricing those Byrd models, those BD-1 Models and VG-10 Models and changing the steel to a simple carbon steel won't make much of a difference at all in price.

That would be the reality, $35 wouldn't be reachable except in the Byrd line I think.