To all:
Thank you for the positive feedback. I recently met with Sal to discuss the prototype and sort out some of the details. Specifically, I wanted to ensure that it was reversible for left and right-side carry. If possible, we're going to try for four-position carry, but we need to make sure the clip works properly and feels right in a tip-down position.
I'm always reluctant to make promises that I can't personally keep, so I can't give specifics on prices and production dates. However, I was pleased to hear that Sal wanted to have the knife available during the first half of 2003.
Thanks again for your feedback.
Stay safe,
Mike
mike j
Spyderco Yojimbo/Folding Ronin Prototype Pics
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Michael Janich
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dialex
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Nice knife. I'm a bit confused, though. From the pics, seems like it features a linerlock. I thought it's gonna use the compression lock. From the banter I heard at different Forums, I understood that the linerlock is not suitable for MBC.
<marquee loop=infinite ><a href="http://users.pcnet.ro/dialex"><font color=blue>(my webpage)</font></a></marquee>
Edited by - dialex on 11/23/2002 4:41:22 AM
<marquee loop=infinite ><a href="http://users.pcnet.ro/dialex"><font color=blue>(my webpage)</font></a></marquee>
Edited by - dialex on 11/23/2002 4:41:22 AM
"From the banter I heard at different Forums, I understood that the linerlock is not suitable for MBC."
I think a well designed liner lock is perfectly fine for MBC, although I would prefer a compression lock.
I have carried, and used, a liner lock Tempest since mid 1998. Everything from opening envelopes to hacking through brush. The lock is still very positive. If the lock were to fail under extreme force, I believe it would fail so as to lock the knife open.
I should mention that the Tempest was designed by Michael Janich, which is a guarantee of suitability.
If the compression lock Spyderco version of the Yojimbo does not come available soon, I would be perfectly happy with the liner lock Snody version of the same knife.
Qship
I think a well designed liner lock is perfectly fine for MBC, although I would prefer a compression lock.
I have carried, and used, a liner lock Tempest since mid 1998. Everything from opening envelopes to hacking through brush. The lock is still very positive. If the lock were to fail under extreme force, I believe it would fail so as to lock the knife open.
I should mention that the Tempest was designed by Michael Janich, which is a guarantee of suitability.
If the compression lock Spyderco version of the Yojimbo does not come available soon, I would be perfectly happy with the liner lock Snody version of the same knife.
Qship
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sam the man..
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Knife Knut
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Michael Janich
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Dear Knife Knut:
The blade length for both knives is the same (3 inches); however, the handle on the Yojimbo is longer for use as an impact tool and to provide a better grip for folks with meaty hands. Since the Ronin was designed as a neck knife, its handle was kept short to aid in concealment.
For the record "Yojimbo" means "bodyguard" in Japanese. Its name was inspired by Toshiro Mafune's classic character in the movie by the same name, directed by the legendary Akira Kurosawa. Although Sal actually prefers the term "Folding Ronin," "Yojimbo" seems to have caught on well enough to stick -- I think.
Stay safe,
mike j
The blade length for both knives is the same (3 inches); however, the handle on the Yojimbo is longer for use as an impact tool and to provide a better grip for folks with meaty hands. Since the Ronin was designed as a neck knife, its handle was kept short to aid in concealment.
For the record "Yojimbo" means "bodyguard" in Japanese. Its name was inspired by Toshiro Mafune's classic character in the movie by the same name, directed by the legendary Akira Kurosawa. Although Sal actually prefers the term "Folding Ronin," "Yojimbo" seems to have caught on well enough to stick -- I think.
Stay safe,
mike j
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SpydercoKnut
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Hello Mr. Janich,
I finally got the Ronin pictures to show up on my computer and the knife is awesome. You better believe I will have to get my hands on one. My questions are what does the Ronin offer that the Tempest and Lil Temperance (Leaf point style blade) don't offer? I'm an owner of the Tempest and it's simple, brutal and effective. The Ronin looks similar to the Lil Temperance as well. Take care!!
I finally got the Ronin pictures to show up on my computer and the knife is awesome. You better believe I will have to get my hands on one. My questions are what does the Ronin offer that the Tempest and Lil Temperance (Leaf point style blade) don't offer? I'm an owner of the Tempest and it's simple, brutal and effective. The Ronin looks similar to the Lil Temperance as well. Take care!!
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Michael Janich
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Dear SpydercoKnut:
In answer to your question, in my experience doing ballistic cutting tests, the wharncliffe-style blades of the Ronin and Yojimbo cut deeper and more efficiently than blades with "belly" to the edge because they take the cutting power all the way to the point. For short-bladed knives, this makes a lot of difference.
Traditionally it is believed that blades need belly to cut effectively. If you use a traditional saber grip and cock the wrist forward to orient the point of your knife, this is true. However,I prefer a natural wrist angle because it is easier to achieve and maintain under stress.
If you grip a knife with belly with a natural wrist angle and cut, you will hit a point where the angle of the cutting edge and the arc of your arm run completely parallel. At that point, although the edge is contacting the target, it is no longer applying any cutting pressure into the target. As such, the motion is wasted.
Like hooked blades (like the Civilian), the Ronin and Yojimbo focus their cutting power on the tip. However, unlike hooked blades, they are very suitable for thrusting (in fact,they penetrate better than many daggers). As such, in my opinion, they offer the best of both worlds.
Also, I prefer what I call a Filipino grip -- focusing one's grip strength on the little, ring, and middle fingers of the hand. The best handle shape for this grip is one that tapers toward the butt of the knife. The Ronin does this. The Yojimbo does it also, but provides an extra length of tapered butt for use as a striking surface. In my opinon, handles that widen toward the butt are best suited for large, chopping knives to act as a stop to keep the knife's weight and momentum from pulling it out of your grip. Small knives should have handles that taper toward the butt.
By the way, the Filipino grip is not exclusive to the Filipino arts. It is also used by the Indonesians and Japanese in their blade work, and is also very similar to the grip tension used on a handgun -- gripping tightly with the last three fingers of the hand. Although I've taken a lot of flak for using this grip over the years, the more I learn, the more convinced I am that it's valid.
I hope this helps answer your question.
Stay safe,
mike j
Edited by - Michael Janich on 12/9/2002 5:57:09 AM
In answer to your question, in my experience doing ballistic cutting tests, the wharncliffe-style blades of the Ronin and Yojimbo cut deeper and more efficiently than blades with "belly" to the edge because they take the cutting power all the way to the point. For short-bladed knives, this makes a lot of difference.
Traditionally it is believed that blades need belly to cut effectively. If you use a traditional saber grip and cock the wrist forward to orient the point of your knife, this is true. However,I prefer a natural wrist angle because it is easier to achieve and maintain under stress.
If you grip a knife with belly with a natural wrist angle and cut, you will hit a point where the angle of the cutting edge and the arc of your arm run completely parallel. At that point, although the edge is contacting the target, it is no longer applying any cutting pressure into the target. As such, the motion is wasted.
Like hooked blades (like the Civilian), the Ronin and Yojimbo focus their cutting power on the tip. However, unlike hooked blades, they are very suitable for thrusting (in fact,they penetrate better than many daggers). As such, in my opinion, they offer the best of both worlds.
Also, I prefer what I call a Filipino grip -- focusing one's grip strength on the little, ring, and middle fingers of the hand. The best handle shape for this grip is one that tapers toward the butt of the knife. The Ronin does this. The Yojimbo does it also, but provides an extra length of tapered butt for use as a striking surface. In my opinon, handles that widen toward the butt are best suited for large, chopping knives to act as a stop to keep the knife's weight and momentum from pulling it out of your grip. Small knives should have handles that taper toward the butt.
By the way, the Filipino grip is not exclusive to the Filipino arts. It is also used by the Indonesians and Japanese in their blade work, and is also very similar to the grip tension used on a handgun -- gripping tightly with the last three fingers of the hand. Although I've taken a lot of flak for using this grip over the years, the more I learn, the more convinced I am that it's valid.
I hope this helps answer your question.
Stay safe,
mike j
Edited by - Michael Janich on 12/9/2002 5:57:09 AM
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glasgow_kiss
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Michael Janich
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I'd like to chime in here a bit as well. The Lil' Temperance and Yojimbo share a few things;
1) They are both 3" in overall blade length which makes themn legal carry almost anywhere.
2) They are both using the exact same compresion lock. Both Mike and I agree that we wanted a very strong (MBC rated) lock that was very difficult (if not impossible)to accidentally unlock.
3) Both are very strong and are able to handle tough tasks that the average 3" folder could not.
4) Both have very ergonomic handles that give both grip and control even though the sape is different.
5) Both will be using CPM-S30V
All good things to share to be sure.
They are both different solutions to similar requirements. The slight belly of the leaf offers more versatility. The straight cutting edge offers uncompromised control.
(The Warncliffe and Sheepfoot blade designs provide consistant control from the heel to the tip of the cutting edge. That's why Spyderco's Rescues all use it).
They are competely different in shape and feel. The Yojimbo is the physical embodiement of the folding knife Spirit that Michael wanted in his knife. The Lil' Temp does the same for me.
I'm sure I'll carry both often. Ferrari today, Lotus tomorrow.
Both are big muscles in a shorter package.
Regarding the handle blade ratio question. This seems to have the biggest effect of the "look" of the knife. For anything other than "looking", there is no ratio question. This means that, IMO, if you are only going to "look" at the piece, then, as 3D art the ratio has importance.
May I suggest that you consider the concept that "handles are for holding, blades are for cutting". Consider the scalpel as an example of a form folows funtion ratio. If you want to carry a very strong legal 3" blade as a big muscle, then, absolute control over that blade is critical.
just another opinion.
sal
1) They are both 3" in overall blade length which makes themn legal carry almost anywhere.
2) They are both using the exact same compresion lock. Both Mike and I agree that we wanted a very strong (MBC rated) lock that was very difficult (if not impossible)to accidentally unlock.
3) Both are very strong and are able to handle tough tasks that the average 3" folder could not.
4) Both have very ergonomic handles that give both grip and control even though the sape is different.
5) Both will be using CPM-S30V
All good things to share to be sure.
They are both different solutions to similar requirements. The slight belly of the leaf offers more versatility. The straight cutting edge offers uncompromised control.
(The Warncliffe and Sheepfoot blade designs provide consistant control from the heel to the tip of the cutting edge. That's why Spyderco's Rescues all use it).
They are competely different in shape and feel. The Yojimbo is the physical embodiement of the folding knife Spirit that Michael wanted in his knife. The Lil' Temp does the same for me.
I'm sure I'll carry both often. Ferrari today, Lotus tomorrow.
Both are big muscles in a shorter package.
Regarding the handle blade ratio question. This seems to have the biggest effect of the "look" of the knife. For anything other than "looking", there is no ratio question. This means that, IMO, if you are only going to "look" at the piece, then, as 3D art the ratio has importance.
May I suggest that you consider the concept that "handles are for holding, blades are for cutting". Consider the scalpel as an example of a form folows funtion ratio. If you want to carry a very strong legal 3" blade as a big muscle, then, absolute control over that blade is critical.
just another opinion.
sal
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aero_student
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Joe Talmadge
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Hi Sal,
REgarding the blade-to-handle ratio, I enjoyed reading your thoughts, and agree somewhat but also disagree to an extent.
I come at this question from the opposite point of view. I have a knife in my pocket right this very moment that has a 5" handle and a 4" blade. When I look at purchasing the Yojimbo, one question I ask myself is: this knife has the same handle length as my current knife so it'll be just as uncomfortable to carry, <i>and </i> I'm sacrificing a full inch of blade. Is there any reason I should do that?
In many cases, the answer is a resounding yes. If I lived in a state with a 3" blade limit, the Yojimbo would be a big advantage over my current knife. If I had huge hands but wanted a more modest-sized blade, the Yojimbo would fit perfectly. If my current knife had a suspect lock, bad workmanship, shoddy materials, or inefficient design, I'd jump at the Yojimbo, which has excellent design and I'm sure will have Spyderco's usual great execution.
But in a no-blade-limit state, the issue becomes murkier. The Yojimbo has some advantages, but it's got to make up a full inch of blade!
That said, I'll probably buy one and carry one. But I want to get across what those of us who want bigger blades might be thinking. I'm not just going for looks -- but the real world isn't just about utility either. It's about carryability, too, and getting the most out of what I do carry. Slap a 3-3/4" blade in there without lengthening the handle -- which I'm certain you could do -- and all of a sudden the Yojimbo looks like the ultimate carry folder for me. Or maybe ultimate-carry-folder-of-the-week <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Joe
REgarding the blade-to-handle ratio, I enjoyed reading your thoughts, and agree somewhat but also disagree to an extent.
I come at this question from the opposite point of view. I have a knife in my pocket right this very moment that has a 5" handle and a 4" blade. When I look at purchasing the Yojimbo, one question I ask myself is: this knife has the same handle length as my current knife so it'll be just as uncomfortable to carry, <i>and </i> I'm sacrificing a full inch of blade. Is there any reason I should do that?
In many cases, the answer is a resounding yes. If I lived in a state with a 3" blade limit, the Yojimbo would be a big advantage over my current knife. If I had huge hands but wanted a more modest-sized blade, the Yojimbo would fit perfectly. If my current knife had a suspect lock, bad workmanship, shoddy materials, or inefficient design, I'd jump at the Yojimbo, which has excellent design and I'm sure will have Spyderco's usual great execution.
But in a no-blade-limit state, the issue becomes murkier. The Yojimbo has some advantages, but it's got to make up a full inch of blade!
That said, I'll probably buy one and carry one. But I want to get across what those of us who want bigger blades might be thinking. I'm not just going for looks -- but the real world isn't just about utility either. It's about carryability, too, and getting the most out of what I do carry. Slap a 3-3/4" blade in there without lengthening the handle -- which I'm certain you could do -- and all of a sudden the Yojimbo looks like the ultimate carry folder for me. Or maybe ultimate-carry-folder-of-the-week <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Joe
Hi Joe. Thanx for the comments. I always appreciate someone that has their own mind. I don't know that we disagree.
To me, purely personal, I agree with you. I think that 4" to 4.25" is the perfect blade size. The reason to carry a 3" blade is pretty much strictly due to legal limitations, as you stated. In Golden, and in the mountains where I live, My 4 inchers are usually in my pocket, but If I'm going into Denver, it is more prudent to carry the Lil' Temperance.
If the Yojimbo has some success and the market is asking for a larger blade, and Mr. Janich wants to see a larger blade version, then we would certainly consider making some, even as a test, for guys like you, me and 95% of those on this forum.
My suggestion is to keep in mind that the functions of the blade and handle are quite different even though they must work in harmony. There will be situations where a designer must rely on a shorter blade for legal or function reasons and one must remember not to make the handle too small to have effective control. That's why Spyderco got involved in finger choils. It gives more handle to the smaller blade in a smaller overall package.
sal
To me, purely personal, I agree with you. I think that 4" to 4.25" is the perfect blade size. The reason to carry a 3" blade is pretty much strictly due to legal limitations, as you stated. In Golden, and in the mountains where I live, My 4 inchers are usually in my pocket, but If I'm going into Denver, it is more prudent to carry the Lil' Temperance.
If the Yojimbo has some success and the market is asking for a larger blade, and Mr. Janich wants to see a larger blade version, then we would certainly consider making some, even as a test, for guys like you, me and 95% of those on this forum.
My suggestion is to keep in mind that the functions of the blade and handle are quite different even though they must work in harmony. There will be situations where a designer must rely on a shorter blade for legal or function reasons and one must remember not to make the handle too small to have effective control. That's why Spyderco got involved in finger choils. It gives more handle to the smaller blade in a smaller overall package.
sal