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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:47 pm
by 410ericb
I have an add on to this if you don't mind? I have a chance to grab a mule m390 for 100$ should I get it? I want one so bad and for some reason this is the only one that tickles my fancy. Actually it's a little more with shipping. No scales nib
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:04 pm
by phillipsted
I've been really working with my grey Para2 lately - trying a couple of different combinations of edge geometries. My initial experience with the factory edge and a thin primary bevel wasn't as positive as I'd hoped. But I think I found a good approach for the steel that works for me.
First, I reprofiled the edge down to 28 degrees to get a good primary bevel and expose some fresh steel. Then I put a secondary bevel at 40 degrees (it is a bit more than a "microbevel"). Didn't go for a mirror polish - I left it at 1000 grit. Then I stropped the edge out nice and smooth.
The knife cuts like a champ - its not a slicer really, but the edge is tough and durable. This weekend I was working in the garage. I wasn't watching what I was doing and accidentally whacked the edge into a steel pipe. It took a good chink out of the pipe, but the edge was untouched. Not a roll, not a chip, nothing. It's got me sold...
TedP
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:03 pm
by chuck_roxas45
maa14 wrote:Sorry but no, would like to though but I just like m390's sharpenability(if that is a word) and it doesn't chip out very easily. it just seems like 20cp would chip out much easier and what I have seen from reviews and from people who cut a lot of cardboard, it does.
Ahhhhh...
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:09 pm
by maa14
chuck_roxas45 wrote:Ahhhhh...
Yea :o sorry
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:16 pm
by chuck_roxas45
maa14 wrote:Yea :o sorry
Nah, it's ok. Opinions as welcome. Just shouldn't be confused as facts. :D
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:19 pm
by maa14
chuck_roxas45 wrote:Ahhhhh...
If not going by steel(since I have no experience w/20CP) then I would go with the 20cp one just because if you are going to dye the handle it will be easier and also I see none on the 'bay so it might be harder to find if you wanted it back.... anyway, this I am saying this based on the things SnooSnoo said about the one he was going to keep, my first post was based on what I had experience with, steel wise........there, is that better??????????? :D :D :D :p
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:23 pm
by chuck_roxas45
maa14 wrote:If not going by steel(since I have no experience w/20CP) then I would go with the 20cp one just because if you are going to dye the handle it will be easier and also I see none on the 'bay so it might be harder to find if you wanted it back.... anyway, this I am saying this based on the things SnooSnoo said about the one he was going to keep, my first post was based on what I had experience with, steel wise........there, is that better??????????? :D :D :D :p
Much...
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:17 pm
by razorsharp
I cant speak for 2cp but m390 is everything I need in a steel. I have battoned it, cut tin with it, cut aluminium with it, gently pried with it, stabbed with it, cut the most dirty cruddy cardboard with it, and the only thing that damaged my edge was when I decided to push-cut Tin, it slightly flattened- thats it
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:24 pm
by maa14
chuck_roxas45 wrote:Much...
OK GOOD!!!! LOL :D
(hope you understand I am joking)
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:08 am
by The Mastiff
My vote is 20CP as M390 is much easier to find at this time. It doesn't have the brand recognition of S90V, but it has it's performance. One of the first, and still one of the best of the "super steels".
Joe
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:29 am
by haarspalter
keep em both! or frankenstein the blue handles with the 20cp blade and sell the grey m390 - to me! .-)
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:09 pm
by nirvanero
Both steels are similar but M390 sharpens easier, so if cash is priority number one I would sell the grey Para for a little extra bucks.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:02 pm
by DeathBySnooSnoo
Thanks everyone for your replies. I have made a decision...made slightly easier by you guys, and the fact that I have a M390 Millie.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:53 pm
by CrimsonTideShooter
Donut wrote:I want to say that the chemistry behind it has more to do with how the steel performs than the size of the particles. 20CP is similar to S90V in chemistry, M390 is different than both. I'm thinking that the chemistry plays a role in the size of the particles and the "generation" of the steel. As far as I know, only Bohler refers to "generation" in reference to the particle size.
M390 and 204P are the only steels we've heard particle size or generation in reference to, and those are both similar chemistry.
Now... I've heard people say that they prefer a steel that is easier to sharpen and I can understand that, but I'm not someone who likes a steel for being easy to sharpen. I might recommend it to someone else for that reason, but I won't lean towards a steel for ease of sharpening.
And, for my "on topic" statement, I have sharpened M390 twice, and haven't used it enough to dull it, but I haven't used 20CP much at all. I don't have much of an opinion on either.
When you see "generation," it isn't in reference to particle size directly.
Generation refers to the powder steel tech that is used to make the steel. When a new technology is used, it becomes a new gen. Dispersion and particle size just so happen to become finer with the new powder steel tech generations.
Crucible uses 1st gen tech,
Carpenter uses 2nd gen,
Bohler uses 3rd.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:58 pm
by Donut
Sorry, only Bohler's marketing refers to "generation". It has been discussed in a little more detail, but I had written it off as a marketing stunt.
*edit* I'm going to add, it seems like Bohler only mentions "generation" in reference to M390, why would they limit this great technology to only one of their products?
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:17 pm
by CrimsonTideShooter
Donut wrote:Sorry, only Bohler's marketing refers to "generation". It has been discussed in a little more detail, but I had written it off as a marketing stunt.
*edit* I'm going to add, it seems like Bohler only mentions "generation" in reference to M390, why would they limit this great technology to only one of their products?
Bohler makes many more powder steels than just M390. They probably don't talk about the gen because it's a given that all of their PM steels are 3rd gen tech. :)
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:55 pm
by Donut
That's a very big probably. It seems like there are a lot of magical things going on that we don't seem to be seeing anything about.
zKnives covers quite a bit of it here:
http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steeltec.shtml
So, if Carpenter has technology to make their particle size and carbide size smaller than M390, will we see 20CP with this smaller particle size? Will it have another name? Why don't we see tables that indicate the entire line of carbide steel with the size of the carbides?
I wonder how much ZDP would be improved with a finer grain.
Maybe I'm just missing all this information.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:22 pm
by Mjolnir74
I've had the s90, 20cp and m390 para 2's. I like them in reverse order, but that's just my opinion.