overall F&F question

[unit]

are the frn spydies in seki all less than best?

YES. They are production knives...so they can not be expected to have the best f&f (ESPECIALLY considering the concept of price).

i've read up on the stretch now and am kinda not wanting to get one with the uneven blade grinds and lockbars. are the G-10 ones any better?

Why? A grind that appears uneven during close inspection, but performs flawlessly seems like something that would not bother me one bit...in fact there is no such thing as a perfectly even grind. Going a step further, many knives are created intentionally uneven (chisel grinds), and they perform VERY well.

The uneven lock bar issue is one I am not highly familiar with...the dent is uneven on a few of mine...depending on if I am using left or right hand this may even be a good thing.

looking for an amazing slicer and like the sage 1 but the caly3, 3.5, and s2 all look amazing. would like a good f&f

Having a knife be an amazing slicer and the potential issues you have read about have VERY little to do with one another. Regardless, if you are going to use the knife (and thus be proficient with regard to objectively reviewing its slicing ability) the imperfections to F&F should be less important (or at least they would be to me).

I understand the want for great F&F....the problem is, you can not know how good of a match a knife will be to your expectations unless you see it and examine it. (idiots like me spouting on the web can say anything, and none of it matters one bit, because it has zero bearing on what you will decide upon seeing and experiencing the knife).

Buy what you want, and return it if you are unsatisfied.

I can however guarantee a couple things to you.
1. If you get a Stretch that meets Spyderco's specs, it will slice very well relative to anything else (I have ever tried) in its price range.
2. If it is not within Spyderco's specs, they will take care of you.
3. If you own ANY knife long enough, you will find its imperfections (if you keep looking for them). "Perfection" does not exist...if you think you found it, you simply lack the ability to assess the imperfections that do exist. (I could tell you LOTS of stories of "perfect" knives that people bring me )

You are looking for "perfect for you" and that is achievable...but only you can determine if a knife fits that definition.

[Blerv]

The F&F on my Sprint Massad Ayoob is amazing. Probably the best finish of any Spyderco I own currently. Sure I had to put a little grease in the pivot and spend 30 seconds with a can of compressed air but I can commit that much work into a $160 tool.

By the common sterotypes thrown around it should have been a complete dud. Limited run, Seki, lockback in G10, hollow-grind. Oh well, lol.

As Unit said, F&F doesn't equate to performance if it's merely aesthetic. Chipped paint on a new Corvette ZR1 doesn't dismiss it's 638 hp supercharged LS9 engine. :D

[unit]

Chipped paint on a new Corvette ZR1 doesn't dismiss it's 638 hp supercharged LS9 engine. :D

Great analogy!

It is a shame to see machines/tools held to a standard that becomes meaningless the instant they are submitted to the use for which they were intended.

I have a buddy with a SWEET car that cost about the same as my house. It has scratches, chips and scuffs...because he DRIVES it and can tell you honestly what the car will do. He and I share the philosophy that if you cannot bring yourself to use it, WTF buy it?

[WalzAaronFFG]

Are you considering buying a knife, or a Faberge Egg?

I understand getting a knife and sending it back because it has problems, but suggesting that you won't buy a Seki model because you have heard of a few FF issues through the grapevine is just silly.

Was my Caly3 CF a little rough out of box? YES!, but it is the smoothest knife I own now that I blew a shot of compressed air into it and put a drop of oil in the pivot. Is the hand grind on my Lum Tanto sprint a little funky? YES!, but a few passes on a stone will fix it and make it "perfect".

It just isn't worth putting this much thought into it. Spyderco wouldn't have a long line of loyal followers if they were bad at what they did, but that doesn't mean they visually inspect every knife off the line. If they did you can bet the price would be higher.

Go to cutleryshoppe.com or one of the other recommended Spyderco dealers and when you checkout with your new stretch just put a note in the comment section to Jeff. Just ask him to do a quick inspection of the knife's grind before shipping. If you have to write more than a sentence, you are being too picky.

If you don't like it when you get it, send it back. Problem solved

[WalzAaronFFG]

Great analogy!

It is a shame to see machines/tools held to a standard that becomes meaningless the instant they are submitted to the use for which they were intended.

I have a buddy with a SWEET car that cost about the same as my house. It has scratches, chips and scuffs...because he DRIVES it and can tell you honestly what the car will do. He and I share the philosophy that if you cannot bring yourself to use it, WTF buy it?

Dude, your friend has a Lambo? Sweet cheezuz, what's a guy gotta do to find friends like your's?

[unit]

I have another friend with a McLaren also, but he wont let me drive it

I guess I am just a nice guy? :D

[WalzAaronFFG]

I have another friend with a McLaren also, but he wont let me drive it

I guess I am just a nice guy? :D

Hahah my friend has a Chevy Cavalier and he won't let me drive it :eek:

I thought I was nice to people, but maybe I need to be nicer lol

[Blerv]

I have another friend with a McLaren also, but he wont let me drive it

I guess I am just a nice guy? :D

Dang Unit, you run with quite the crowd. :eek:

I was cut off at high speed by a NSX in my Yaris once. Not exactly the same thing but I felt special. :p

[gbelleh]

My best friend has a 911, and he lets me drive it! :D

[WalzAaronFFG]

Dang Unit, you run with quite the crowd. :eek:

I was cut off at high speed by a NSX in my Yaris once. Not exactly the same thing but I felt special. :p

LOL, I'm right there with you in my 04' Civic EX Sedan

[bh49]

looking for an amazing slicer and like the sage 1 but the caly3, 3.5, and s2 all look amazing. would like a good f&f

If you are looking for amazing slicer Caly3.5 (or Caly3) is an excellent candidate.
I EDC Caly3.5 for about a year and absolutely love it. Thickness of the blade behind the edge vary between .015 and .018". I EDCed G10 Caly3 for about four years and love as well.
Fit & finish is very important for me. I owned 6-7 various Caly3/3.5, never had a problem with F&F. Will this guarantee that your Caly will be perfect, most likely no, but there is a good chance that it will. If you buy from a good dealer, you can ask to open the box and inspect. NGK always do this for me. Also you can return.

[unit]

Dang Unit, you run with quite the crowd. :eek:

I was cut off at high speed by a NSX in my Yaris once. Not exactly the same thing but I felt special. :p

Ha!

The crowd I usually run with generally drive mini-vans to where ever our kids have decided to meet up :D

I have had some amazing opportunities to experience some seriously high performance machines.

I think Spyderco exemplifies some of the most important philosophies I have learned on the test tracks. Looks can be deceiving...when you push something to its edge (but stay within the realm of what it was designed to do) you really start to appreciate performance over style.

Museum quality fit and finish is pretty worthless if the tool can not get you through a single day of work. When it comes to serious work, I could care less if the blade is centered, or if the grind is lop-sided.

[bh49]

I think Spyderco exemplifies some of the most important philosophies I have learned on the test tracks. Looks can be deceiving...when you push something to its edge (but stay within the realm of what it was designed to do) you really start to appreciate performance over style.

Museum quality fit and finish is pretty worthless if the tool can not get you through a single day of work. When it comes to serious work, I could care less if the blade is centered, or if the grind is lop-sided.

This is all true.
But how often average Joe need to push his folder to it edge? Once in the life, may be? may be not.
IMHO, $50-60 frn Spyderco is a pure tool: excellent steel, inexpensive durable handle. G10 probably a little more durable, but in my opinion not worth price increase, if you take in consideration only performance. The same goes with CF, probably times two or three.
I do not have a lot of F&F expectations, when I buy FRN knife for myself (this is not applicable to any limited editions, which I can buy for collector value). Scratch or stain on handle or blade - I can live with it. If I buy $100+ knife, I expect to see good workmanship and at $150+ I expect F&F to be really good, especially if this is gents knife or some highly collectable limited run.

[sal]

The Boye dent on the lockbar is almost always off slightly.

Hi Blerv,

The Boye dent is located so that the dent is parrallel to the bottom of the lock well when the lock is fully depressed.

sal

[Blerv]

Hi Blerv,

The Boye dent is located so that the dent is parrallel to the bottom of the lock well when the lock is fully depressed.

sal

Thank you for the insight Sal! I edited my response.

I actually looked at it a few times thinking it was strange but seemed to work much better than it would dead-center. Glad I shied away from engineering as a career path. :o

[unit]

This is all true.
But how often average Joe need to push his folder to it edge? Once in the life, may be? may be not.

Based on what I see brought to me for maintenance, I would say that the average joe pushes their knife MUCH farther than many (more knowledgeable) of the members on this forum.

This is partially joking, and mostly not. The average joe is not a knife collector, and he generally thinks 50 bucks is a lot of money for a knife...and believes that such an expensive knife ought to be similar to superman's cape in that it is un-blemishable. These guys will cut anything that gets in their way (wire, thin sheet metal, you-name-it). I have seen things that make me cringe...and all are what I would call "in line with what the knife was designed to do" (cut stuff).

I would suggest that these (less educated) users stand a much greater chance of finding a weakness in a knife than the guy who pulls out a magnifying glass to examine f&f.

I could be wrong....

and it may not even be pushing it to its ultimate edge (or brink of failure)...but suffice to say they push these knives through some serious work!

[WalzAaronFFG]

I totally agree that our tools should be used, but at the same time I try to keep in mind that some people do see them as just collector's items. I mean yeah, a $50 FRN Delica from Spyderco is a total user if you have a collection of expensive sprint runs, but some people may still see it is a collector knife. Some people collect the blister pack blades from department stores and are perfectly happy with those collections. Also the number of different colors and models makes them collectable to plenty of people.

If you are buying the knife and don't plan on using it I kind of understand being concerned with the little nit-picky things. I recently made a thread because my new Lum Tanto had a funky grind and I was concerned that may make it worth less in the eyes of some in the secondary markets. Like I said in my previous post, if I was planning on using the Lum Tanto I could easily fix it, but since I wasn't I didn't know what to do about it.

In my eyes the Stretch is a pure user only. It doesn't have the same legacy as the Delica and Endura models seem to have. Since it is really only a user(in my eyes) then being concerned about this is a waste of time.

[unit]

Some people collect farm tractors. Do you suppose John Deere gets complaints about the fit and finish?

Tractors are not cheap either....

Have a good weekend guys.

[WalzAaronFFG]

I wouldn't equate collecting tractors to collecting knives for most people. I would, however, equate it to collecting coins for some.

There seems to be many different kinds of collectors. Some who look at knives as investments, others who collect because a knife looks pretty or is well designed. Then there are some that fall in the middle of a user and a collector (probably many forumites). To people who aren't really looking at knives as tools, but more as a work of art, they sometimes inspect them like coins. I don't know the OP's intent, but like I said in my previous post: the Stretch is a user IMHO, it is not a knife I would be asking about F&F on. I would only want to know if it works.

Now if he was asking about F&F on a damascus/bone Delica with titanium bolsters I would totally understand. Not just because of the price, but because it is a more collectible knife.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here

[Ankerson]

If people are buying ~ $50 to $100 knives and expecting them to be perfect they are going to be disappointed.

You just can't expect to get Rolex quality at a Timex price, that's just the way things work.

If you want Rolex quality then spend the money and buy a Rolex......

Can't or won't afford a Rolex then get a Timex and live with it.....

Bottom line is that as the tolerances get tighter and the F&F gets better the prices go up due to the increased expense to produce the products, add to that the increased cost of materials and equipment.