Why do people like tip down carry?

[yablanowitz]

The advantage of tip-up is, you can pull and open the knife without ever pinch-gripping. Tip-down, every opening always involves a pinch grip. For any use which involves stress opening, tip-up is the way to go, as anyone who has ever thrown their knife across the room on a fast pinch-grip opening (admit it, that includes 100% of us) can attest.

The possibility of tip-up carry resulting in opening in the pocket is a very realistic concern. While I strongly favor tip-up, I only like carrying that way for knives that have a lock that provide a strong positive closing bias -- lockback being the best, something like a ball lock being not too far behind, and an integral/liner/compression lock only being acceptable if the ball-detent mechanism is really well executed.

Sorry Joe, you'll have to settle for 99.99%. I have never thrown a knife across the room by accident. I've done it on purpose a few times, but not while opening. As far as tip up avoiding a pinch grip, I must have no idea how to draw a knife from my pocket, because I always end up pinching whatever portion of the knife I can get a hold of, drawing it out and inchworming my way to the point where I can reach the hole. I've fumbled that manuever way more times than tip down openings.

Tip-up is SLOWER. It is. Spyderdrop or no Spyderdrop. It's also more difficult to get the knife out of the pocket.

Also, tip-DOWN is LESS SAFE. How can a knife carried tip-up open up if it's against the seam of the pocket? It can't. On the other hand, a knife carried tip-DOWN has the blade's path pointing toward the INSIDE of the pocket, so there's a chance that it can open up when your hand is on it's way up out of the pocket (don't ask how; we never understand how these freak accidents happen lol)

I think that most people believe in myths where exactly the opposite is true when it comes to tip-up/down carry.

I've been over this a few times. The side of the pocket only holds the blade shut if the knife is carried in the back corner of the front pocket, and if the clip keeps it there. I've had a Dodo, a Salsa and a D'Allara Drop Point open in my pocket when the clips failed to hold them in place against the side of the pocket. I carry my Millie in the front corner of my back pocket, and have for years. Guess what? It's tip down and the blade is against the pocket seam. Know what happens when you carry a BM 710 that way and jump down off a loading dock? I do. It's one of the reasons I carry Band Aids all the time. These things are not myths. These are personal experiences, and experience is the best teacher.

As for how a tip-down knife can get your hand on the way out of your pocket, if the detent is weak enough, friction from your skin dragging up the spine can open the blade, possibly enough to cut you. I had a BM 640 Mini-Spike assassinate my wallet that way, which taught me the folly of carrying a right-handed knife in my left back pocket.

[THG]

You mean, for you. For me, a fast, *reliable* opening, tip-up is faster -- grab and thumb open with no pinch grip.

Possibly. Maybe your hands are different from mine or something, but I cannot find a way to grab a tip-up knife with my thumb on the opening mechanism (hole, stud) with any reliability. Whenever I have to grab a tip-up knife, there's always some type of pushing against the pocket for leverage or some type of pinching for leverage which causes the clip to press against the pocket, making me have to tug. Withdrawing a tip-up knife is always a tug-o-war for me.

On the other hand, it's simple to grab a tip-down knife because I'm not pressing against the clip, and I don't need to do anything for leverage because I'm not grabbing at something that's on the other side of the pocket. Just pinch, pull while using the middle finger on the (already exposed) clip to bring the knife into the hand, and then open.

I've been saying that I've got to make a video demonstrating the difference between the two... Maybe someone can make a video showing how much faster tip-up can be; I could be doing it wrong lol

I've been over this a few times. The side of the pocket only holds the blade shut if the knife is carried in the back corner of the front pocket, and if the clip keeps it there. I've had a Dodo, a Salsa and a D'Allara Drop Point open in my pocket when the clips failed to hold them in place against the side of the pocket. I carry my Millie in the front corner of my back pocket, and have for years. Guess what? It's tip down and the blade is against the pocket seam. Know what happens when you carry a BM 710 that way and jump down off a loading dock? I do. It's one of the reasons I carry Band Aids all the time. These things are not myths. These are personal experiences, and experience is the best teacher.

Well... Then you carry your knives in strange places lol

I don't know how the 710 thing worked in your case (isn't the blade too long to open up in a pocket?), but I guess it did. Can't argue with that because I don't carry my knives in my pockets.

I carry IWB, which I think is the safest (so long as it's not AO, even though I still carry AOs IWB lol). I'll let you guys know if I ever gut myself. Or if I mysteriously stop posting on the forum, assume that I gutted myself :o

[SnowCrash]

I'd rather have my instant open ziptie mod on my police 3 g10 than have to spyderdrop it and then inch my hand on the handle.

hopefully i won't need to get a sheath for the civie, maybe it'll be easier to :spyder: drop

[p3pe]

a little off topic, sorry. But I need to know What size of torx i need to change my clips.

[Jay_Ev]

I prefer tip down. It's safer and not a myth. I can put my hand in and out of my pocket and the only thing that happens is my hand brushes lightly over the spine if the blade.

[Rapidray]

T-6 is the size you are looking for. :D

[NoFair]

a little off topic, sorry. But I need to know What size of torx i need to change my clips.

Probably a #6 (normal clip with 3 screws). I'd get a set with all sizes between 6 and 10.

Sverre

[white cloud]

The advantage of tip-up is, you can pull and open the knife without ever pinch-gripping. Tip-down, every opening always involves a pinch grip. For any use which involves stress opening, tip-up is the way to go, as anyone who has ever thrown their knife across the room on a fast pinch-grip opening (admit it, that includes 100% of us) can attest.

The possibility of tip-up carry resulting in opening in the pocket is a very realistic concern. While I strongly favor tip-up, I only like carrying that way for knives that have a lock that provide a strong positive closing bias -- lockback being the best, something like a ball lock being not too far behind, and an integral/liner/compression lock only being acceptable if the ball-detent mechanism is really well executed.

joe is right on target. i had two very bad experiences with tip up carry and the yojimbo. that said i still carry tip up but only with lockbacks.

[Frapiscide]

For me, I see no advantage of speed between tip up and tip down. I grab whatever is sticking out of my pocket and then adjust my grip, both with tip up and down. The way I carry my knives can't open that are tip up, since they are pressed against the side of the pocket. I do prefer tip up though, since the thumb ramp doesn't get in the way when sticking my hand down in my pocket. Actually, a knife opened on me that was tip down! Probably not the first, but it shows that tip down isn't 100% safe.

[Joshua J.]

I find that tip down on longer knives like the military, endura, chinook puts my thumb near the thumb hole as soon as it's out of my pocket without having to shift my grip.

+1

I often carry either way, and while it doesn't seem to make a huge difference, I do find that tip up requires more re-positioning to get the knife open. Tip down I just pivot the knife to its final position, tip up I almost have to let go and shuffle it to where my thumb can reach the hole.

(Thumb-studs are a figment of your imagination.)

[Evil D]

Being a die hard tip up guy, i finally have some appreciation for tip down after carrying my Para for a month or so exclusively. The best way is to do the spydie drop open method...otherwise i can't see any advantage to tip down. That said, i can see how on knives like the Para and Military, tip down may well be the best method of carrying because deploying the knife by dropping the handle into your hand is so smooth and fluid that it does work very nice once you get used to it. I've grown so used to it that i have to stop and think about thumbing the blade on my Delica when i carry it because it's tip up. I can't say i'm a tip down guy now, but it certainly seems to have its place on some knives.

[The Deacon]

Why do people like clipped carry? To me, the potential it creates for losing knives, "keying" furniture and vehicles, fraying pockets, and cutting yourself and your clothing due to accidental opening, not to mention the increased potential for police attention, outweigh any possible advantages it may have in terms of "deployment speed".

[Evil D]

Paul, for me i absolutely can't stand how a knife in your pocket will lay "sideways" across your thigh...it drives me insane. Before clipped knives, i really didn't carry a knife much because of that unless it was in a belt pouch.

[Billy]

For me, like others, I was a tip up guy for many, many years. But that was carrying mostly 3" or so folders. Once I got my first Millie, I *thought* tip down was going to be a hassle, but it's really not and I actually do prefer tip down on larger folders now. For me, speed is generally not the most important thing when presenting a folder, but I find I am just as fast with a Millie in tip down as I am with a D4 in tip up.

Also, for those that use the spydie drop method and claim it be super fast, how can that be if you still have to pinch the hole, flick the handle down and then shift your grip down to the handle? You might be able to open the knife faster, but having it in a controlled, useable grip faster, well, I just don't see it. Unless I'm missing something.

[chuck_roxas45]

Why do people like clipped carry? To me, the potential it creates for losing knives, "keying" furniture and vehicles, fraying pockets, and cutting yourself and your clothing due to accidental opening, not to mention the increased potential for police attention, outweigh any possible advantages it may have in terms of "deployment speed".

For years, I had to sew my left rear pocket into two compartments so my balisong would stay upright in the pocket. Clipped knives are the best thing that happened to me since cold drinking water. :D

[yablanowitz]

For me, like others, I was a tip up guy for many, many years. But that was carrying mostly 3" or so folders. Once I got my first Millie, I *thought* tip down was going to be a hassle, but it's really not and I actually do prefer tip down on larger folders now. For me, speed is generally not the most important thing when presenting a folder, but I find I am just as fast with a Millie in tip down as I am with a D4 in tip up.

Also, for those that use the spydie drop method and claim it be super fast, how can that be if you still have to pinch the hole, flick the handle down and then shift your grip down to the handle? You might be able to open the knife faster, but having it in a controlled, useable grip faster, well, I just don't see it. Unless I'm missing something.

My hands are large enough to pinch the blade at the Spyderhole and flip the handle down into a three finger grip that is quite secure for utility purposes. It probably wouldn't do for knife fighting, but I've carried knives for 46 years without ever needing to use one as a weapon. I've made quite a few cuts with the blade only half open as well. If all you need to do is slit open a box or cut a small rope, you don't really need full deployment, just an exposed edge.

[araneae]

People like tip down for the same reason others like tip up. It works for them, all good, just different.

[jackknifeh]

Both are good. I've had to get used to both because in my pocket I carry tip up. Don't know why. I think it's just what I got used to first. I've noticed when you don't have a choice because of design the knife is usually tip up. My Michael Walker is one. In a pouch I carry tip down because a lot of folders' handles are smaller at the tip end when folded and they slide in and out of the pouch easier than with the pivot end going in first. Whatever you get used to will become second nature and you'll never even think about it when getting your knife out.

Happy new year to all,
Jack

[Joe Talmadge]

People like tip down for the same reason others like tip up. It works for them, all good, just different.

Please retract this and replace it with a statement as to why people who like your chosen carry method are superior to those troglodytes who choose the opposite method. You're ruining our buzz.

Joe

:) :) of course!

[Onionman]

While I don't have a problem deploying the blade whether it is tip up or tip down, tip up carry is just more comfortable when you put you hand in your pocket. With most knives, the end of the handle is almost always tapered, smooth and curved toward the back of your pocket, allowing you to put your hand in your pocket without the knife scraping your hand or blocking your pocket.

While some tip down knives do not bother me to carry because they do not have a handle that flairs out where the handle meets the edge of the blade knife, the knives that have the flair at the top can be annoying to carry. Carrying my military tip down does not bother me so much, but I do not like to carry my benchmade sentinel for that reason.