jztml; I'm wondering if ZDP may be best served by a fast moving belt or paper wheel system similar to how the factory does it. Not sure why this is the case but for some reason my stones don't perform as well as they do with S30V.
I carry the SFRN everyday. My usual routine is to ride my bike to and from work so I can get pretty sweaty before the day is done due to being in the South. I would bet that the patina would take longer to form if it was winter time. I have noted that the SFRN does not appear to be as prone to staining as my E4. I did a little test with some apple and orange juice from freshly cut fruit. Left it on the blade for about an hour and then washed off, no staining was noted on the SFRN but similar actions caused mild staining on my E4.
The microscope pictures came from a cheap 40X microscope form the Chinese vendor DealExtreme. It works fairly well but is difficult to take photos through.
I'm not sure if the chipping is specifically from the composition of the ZDP or just from the factory sharpening process. I have noted that with most steels the factory edge will tend to degrade through chipping but after the first sharpening I perform the chipping will be reduced significantly and edge damange will be from rolling. I'll give the SFRN a similar cutting routine with this second sharpening and see how it performs. I don't think the chipping is a real issue, it's just how this steel wears. I find it to be no great loss in performance or maintenance versus other types of edge wear. THG, what have you noticed with your E4? What sharpening system are you using?
I'm an adherent to the thought that fast moving belts and wheels during production heat the edge enough to make it more brittle than the steel will actually be with hand sharpening. Not sure if this is scientifically/metallurgically sound but it's something I've noted in my experiences with factory knives. It is worth it note that my limited experience with serrated knives shows that chipping of that factory edge type is much less than a plain edge in similar steels. This may be due to the fact that SE only has work done on on side so heat is mitigated. I don't profess to be an expert, just trying to objectively report what I see. :)
The on-going Stretch 2 review thread: Rust Review!
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spoonrobot
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spoonrobot
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Update
After the sharpening on 10-9-09 I performed similar cutting tasks as done with the factory edge to see if anymore chipping occurred. Sliced up several feet of carboard and then sectioned some 1/4" and 3/8" wooden dowels as well as pointing one of the dowels.
Chipping after the tests. I noted it was much less severe than before and did not affect performance at all. I feel this may not be an issue in the future but will monitor and see if it completely goes away.
Burr that was raised with the Sharpmaker after the cutting tests. This is the first large burr I've ever seen from the Sharpmaker, very interesting in that it was with ZDP. I've found a combination of Lansky diamond hones and finishing with the white stones gives me a more familiar feeling edge that performs closer to the factory edge.
Still performing up to expectations. :)
After the sharpening on 10-9-09 I performed similar cutting tasks as done with the factory edge to see if anymore chipping occurred. Sliced up several feet of carboard and then sectioned some 1/4" and 3/8" wooden dowels as well as pointing one of the dowels.
Chipping after the tests. I noted it was much less severe than before and did not affect performance at all. I feel this may not be an issue in the future but will monitor and see if it completely goes away.
Burr that was raised with the Sharpmaker after the cutting tests. This is the first large burr I've ever seen from the Sharpmaker, very interesting in that it was with ZDP. I've found a combination of Lansky diamond hones and finishing with the white stones gives me a more familiar feeling edge that performs closer to the factory edge.
Still performing up to expectations. :)
Last edited by spoonrobot on Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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spoonrobot
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Rust Review!
So, I've been carrying the knife for about a month. Have used it quite a bit as seen from the previous posts. Today I ended up spending a few hours rolling around underneath my car, fixing a broken exhaust connection. The SFRN in my pocket came out of the job quite gritty from the fine sand and dust that worked it's way into my pocket. Figuring that a full-disassembly would be the best way to get everything clean I grabbed my box and torx drivers and went to work.
Here's what I found:
(The mark on the blade in the second picture is tape residue.)
Quite a bit of surface rust on the liners. This knife is washed in hot/soapy water at least once and week. It was last washed after cutting up some chicken on Thursday afternoon. I generally shake it dry and wipe down the blade with a towel. Lubrication is sometimes added, sometimes not.
Of note is the complete lack of rust or discoloration on the blade, the lockbar and the lock spring. I find this very surprising, not sure if the finish is different or I've just been treating it different but this specific ZDP appears much more resistant to corrosion than my previous ZDP E4. The patina mentioned in previous posts has not gotten any worse, for now it's holding steady.
The rust on the liners is all surface rust with not visible/tactile pitting. It was easily removed with steel wool with only a few small stains remaining.
Also, for whatever reason the small amount of vertical play the knife had is now gone. Not sure if this is from tightening the lockbar screw all the way or just getting some crud out of the action, but right now it is very solid with not up/down play.
Summary; still loving it! :) :) :)
So, I've been carrying the knife for about a month. Have used it quite a bit as seen from the previous posts. Today I ended up spending a few hours rolling around underneath my car, fixing a broken exhaust connection. The SFRN in my pocket came out of the job quite gritty from the fine sand and dust that worked it's way into my pocket. Figuring that a full-disassembly would be the best way to get everything clean I grabbed my box and torx drivers and went to work.
Here's what I found:
(The mark on the blade in the second picture is tape residue.)
Quite a bit of surface rust on the liners. This knife is washed in hot/soapy water at least once and week. It was last washed after cutting up some chicken on Thursday afternoon. I generally shake it dry and wipe down the blade with a towel. Lubrication is sometimes added, sometimes not.
Of note is the complete lack of rust or discoloration on the blade, the lockbar and the lock spring. I find this very surprising, not sure if the finish is different or I've just been treating it different but this specific ZDP appears much more resistant to corrosion than my previous ZDP E4. The patina mentioned in previous posts has not gotten any worse, for now it's holding steady.
The rust on the liners is all surface rust with not visible/tactile pitting. It was easily removed with steel wool with only a few small stains remaining.
Also, for whatever reason the small amount of vertical play the knife had is now gone. Not sure if this is from tightening the lockbar screw all the way or just getting some crud out of the action, but right now it is very solid with not up/down play.
Summary; still loving it! :) :) :)
Last edited by spoonrobot on Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Great review!
It's intersting that the LINERS corroded and not the ZDP. One would think that the liners are made of cheaper, yet still stain-less steel, since they don't have to hold an edge. It would be interesting to know if this is the same material as used in the VG-10 Stretch and the Endura/Delica series. Sal?
I EDC my VG10 CE Stretch 2 since I got it, and although I am on the fence about ZDP-189, I finally picked up a blue PE Stretch (the one with the uneven grind in the other thread) and plan to give that steel a last chance to perform in my EDC rotation. The first one, a BRG Delica, was disappointing. Not only it was, as described, a PITA to sharpen but it wouldn't stay sharp when I finally managed to get it there
I ended up sending it to Jürgen Schanz for a FFG regrind, but I went even further and ordered a ZERO grind (without any secondary bevel), just ground flat right to the edge. It came back sharp, but again, it wouldn't stay that way any longer than a cheaper steel. - The ZDP Endura I bought after that was sent to Jürgen again, just to come back with a "Krein-like" FFG. This knife seemed to hold the edge a little better, but I didn't keep in my EDC rotation long enough to be 100% sure (too many other Spydies to carry 
). The CF Stretch I own never saw extensive use, it is just too precious and sits in my showcase (I know, it's a pity, but it is a $390 knife over here, so I hope you can forgive me :o ).
So, here comes the FRN ZDP stretch to finally get me used to this new steel in a knife whose pattern I like so much that it's easy to keep as my EDC for a while, and that's cheap enough to be used without too much qualms.
I am thankful for your ongoing report about the experiences with this special knife and curious about how it will perform in the future for you. Keep up the good work!
Dennis
It's intersting that the LINERS corroded and not the ZDP. One would think that the liners are made of cheaper, yet still stain-less steel, since they don't have to hold an edge. It would be interesting to know if this is the same material as used in the VG-10 Stretch and the Endura/Delica series. Sal?
I EDC my VG10 CE Stretch 2 since I got it, and although I am on the fence about ZDP-189, I finally picked up a blue PE Stretch (the one with the uneven grind in the other thread) and plan to give that steel a last chance to perform in my EDC rotation. The first one, a BRG Delica, was disappointing. Not only it was, as described, a PITA to sharpen but it wouldn't stay sharp when I finally managed to get it there
I ended up sending it to Jürgen Schanz for a FFG regrind, but I went even further and ordered a ZERO grind (without any secondary bevel), just ground flat right to the edge. It came back sharp, but again, it wouldn't stay that way any longer than a cheaper steel. - The ZDP Endura I bought after that was sent to Jürgen again, just to come back with a "Krein-like" FFG. This knife seemed to hold the edge a little better, but I didn't keep in my EDC rotation long enough to be 100% sure (too many other Spydies to carry ). The CF Stretch I own never saw extensive use, it is just too precious and sits in my showcase (I know, it's a pity, but it is a $390 knife over here, so I hope you can forgive me :o ).So, here comes the FRN ZDP stretch to finally get me used to this new steel in a knife whose pattern I like so much that it's easy to keep as my EDC for a while, and that's cheap enough to be used without too much qualms.
I am thankful for your ongoing report about the experiences with this special knife and curious about how it will perform in the future for you. Keep up the good work!
Dennis
This is a great idea for a thread/review-nice job! I think that it's very strange that the liners rusted too-I always thought liners were pretty much exclusively made of 420 steel, but I guess it's less rust resistant than I thought. It looks like it's just surface rust though. It's strange that the ZDP didn't rust at the pivot, though-that's where I always thought the trouble spot was on folding knives, not the liners themselves.
I would expect to find rust/corrosion if I completely saturated a knife built like this one in water every week and only shook it "dry".spoonrobot wrote:Rust Review!
Quite a bit of surface rust on the liners. This knife is washed in hot/soapy water at least once and week. It was last washed after cutting up some chicken on Thursday afternoon. I generally shake it dry and wipe down the blade with a towel. Lubrication is sometimes added, sometimes not.
Personally I wouldn't use a knife like this to cut raw meat, if for no other reason than to avoid proper cleaning afterward, but if I did I would almost certainly disassemble for cleaning. On knives I can't take apart (Caly 3), after washing and rinsing I use a hair dryer to heat the knife to the point that most if not all residual water will evaporate, and then lube, always lube.
It's good that you showed what can happen in just a few weeks since most people will probably never take theirs apart. Just think what those liners, etc.. would look like in 10 years :eek:
Great thread Spoonrobot.
Nothing like in depth "real world" testing. Thanx for the effort and the great pics.
We also appreciate all of the other comments as well. The Stretch has been a 25 year work-in-progress and we'd like to continue to make it better. The ZDP FRN version finds a lot of my pocket time.
sal
Nothing like in depth "real world" testing. Thanx for the effort and the great pics.
We also appreciate all of the other comments as well. The Stretch has been a 25 year work-in-progress and we'd like to continue to make it better. The ZDP FRN version finds a lot of my pocket time.
sal
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spoonrobot
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Could be, but I would expect this kind of corrosion in most climates. Maybe it would be less severe in a very arid and dry climate but it's still water in a very tight space so some corrosion is going to inevitable. It gets extremely dry in the winter here so I'll keep up the regular use and then check it again and we'll see if there was any difference.jzmtl wrote:Looks like the rust is only where the edge of FRN is and where water tend to persists, could it be where you live is too moist and it takes too long to dry?
Of course, I wasn't passing any sort of judgment, just making observations. I use Leatherman multi-tools so I'm used to seeing rust! :pI would expect to find rust/corrosion if I completely saturated a knife built like this one in water every week and only shook it "dry".
I've not noticed any ill effects (literally!) from using folders to handle raw meats/poultry but I do understand the potential issues with using knives that have so many nooks and crannies. But I come from a kitchen background and a lot of my views on knives are based around how a 8" chef knife works in a certain role. By using my folders in a similar role it allows me to experience the ergonomics in a way I'm familiar with a evaluate them accordingly.
Interestingly enough I've been observing another model in a similar role, just with a reduced timespan. Last winter I carried my Khukri folder for 5 months, using it in a similar way to the SFRN. After about 5 months I moved on to a different carry piece so I took the Khukri apart and noted the amount of rust inside the liners. I did not remove any rust and used gloves to take it apart/get it back together to try to reduce the variables. Fast forward another 6 months and I've noted that when not in use the rusting happens either not at all or slow enough that I've noted no change so far. In the long term, I don't know the exact results but I think with a proper application of oil before storage a knife should be just fine for quite a while.Just think what those liners, etc.. would look like in 10 years
Thanks a lot Sal! It feels good to be able to benefit from the hard work and shared experience of you and your crew. :spyder:
Well I got a Stretch today with some other stuff and part of why I got it was because of your write up.
Im astounded with this knife. Just how it sits and fits within the hand and the ease of opening.
Ive wanted one for a while. Its not the ZDP or Carbon Fibre, but because of the deal I got, it makes the knife that much more amazing.
I can see where the evolution of the Spyderco branding comes into play with this.
Happy as a pig in poop!
Im astounded with this knife. Just how it sits and fits within the hand and the ease of opening.
Ive wanted one for a while. Its not the ZDP or Carbon Fibre, but because of the deal I got, it makes the knife that much more amazing.
I can see where the evolution of the Spyderco branding comes into play with this.
Happy as a pig in poop!
Oderint Dum Metuant - Let them hate, so long as they fear.
:spyder:'s - I have sincerely now lost count.
http://www.spydiewiki.com/
http://spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/glossary.php
:spyder:'s - I have sincerely now lost count.
http://www.spydiewiki.com/
http://spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/glossary.php
Half a thought here...I have recently changed how I'm lubing my folders and it might have some relevance here (everybody can form their own opinion).
First, I got a little disappointed by how my old favorite TufGlide behaved as a lubricant as it accumulated. It seems to me to pick up and hold dirt without flushing it out when re-lubed, so for joints and pins (but not for blade surfaces, especially not for blade edge areas), I've started using either TriFlo or CLP.
Second, and this is the relevant point, I'm using compressed air to blow out excess lube. This seems to be leaving a very, very thin film of TriFlo or CLP on the interior of the folders, which might address the corrosion you found.
FWIW...
First, I got a little disappointed by how my old favorite TufGlide behaved as a lubricant as it accumulated. It seems to me to pick up and hold dirt without flushing it out when re-lubed, so for joints and pins (but not for blade surfaces, especially not for blade edge areas), I've started using either TriFlo or CLP.
Second, and this is the relevant point, I'm using compressed air to blow out excess lube. This seems to be leaving a very, very thin film of TriFlo or CLP on the interior of the folders, which might address the corrosion you found.
FWIW...
FIMS wrote:Well I got a Stretch today with some other stuff and part of why I got it was because of your write up.
Im astounded with this knife. Just how it sits and fits within the hand and the ease of opening.
Ive wanted one for a while. Its not the ZDP or Carbon Fibre, but because of the deal I got, it makes the knife that much more amazing.
I can see where the evolution of the Spyderco branding comes into play with this.
Happy as a pig in poop!
Its an amazing knife for sure!
dc
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thebestnoobcake
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brilliant blade! got me looking at more spydies after being a BM and Gerber fan.. looks like a lot of people use it regularly too! one look at the "what have you cut today" thread will tell you that
I used to NOT like thumbholes. Until I used one.
Just like I didn't like the look of Spyderco knives in general. Until I held one.
-THG
Just like I didn't like the look of Spyderco knives in general. Until I held one.
-THG
I'm wondering if it's worth to get it in a CE, to use it as the knife to take with me on camping trips...
I have a CE Endura 3 wich could do with an "upgrade". Will the CE on the Stretch II still give me enough PE to cut stuff ? Or do you get the Delica-effect (wich, for me, would be better in either PE or SE just because of the blade-length).
Anyone out there who has it in CE and want to comment ?
Great thread btw :) usefull stuff.
I have a CE Endura 3 wich could do with an "upgrade". Will the CE on the Stretch II still give me enough PE to cut stuff ? Or do you get the Delica-effect (wich, for me, would be better in either PE or SE just because of the blade-length).
Anyone out there who has it in CE and want to comment ?
Great thread btw :) usefull stuff.
I EDC one and I think it's great as an everyday knife. The PE part (4,5cm) is long enough for anything I need it to, and the SE part (4,5cm) is scary sharp AND long enough to work properly as intended. I agree that CE is not that great on shorter blades, but the Stretch is long enough to make sense in CE: the cutting edge is only 5mm shorter (PE part) than on the Endura 4 CE which has 5cm PE and 4,5cm SE.
I didn't regret picking one up for EDC. Just a great knife, in any configuration.
Dennis
I didn't regret picking one up for EDC. Just a great knife, in any configuration.
Dennis
