Spyderco Forums

cornelis wrote:The knives of a lot of forum members see more wear from sharpening instead of from working IMHO :D

:spyder: Guilty as charged! :spyder:

Jurphaas wrote:Hi Guys - the MF204 Tri-Angle Sharpmaker kit takes the guessing out of sharpening....

Well...compared to free-handing yes; compared to a jig with a "shelf" (edge pro) or a clamp (Lansky, etc), the Sharpmaker still can introduce quite a bit of user-introduced error depending on skill. Many humans are not machinelike in their ability to hold a blade completely vertical while simultaneously moving it.

[quote="Bolstermanic"]Well...compared to free-handing yes]


I think that with big enough stone I wouldn't describe it like you did :)

Even with the Sharpmaker, sharpening is far from automatic.. it's an art that takes a lot of time and practice to perfect.

I got my sharpest edge ever the other day, using just the basic Sharpmaker stones and a quick stropping on a worn cardboard pad; it wouldn't "treetop" a freestanding hair, but it would whittle dusty little slivers off of one. I don't doubt that I could get a sharper edge with care and ultra-fine abrasives.

The best advice I can give is to keep the knife as straight as you can (even small variations in angle will alternately make the edge more obtuse and miss it entirely, resulting in a duller edge and more metal wasted) and to watch your pressure; holding the blade firmly against the stone is one thing when you're starting out with the coarse stones and recreating a good edge, but by the time you move to the fine stones you're already smoothing and polishing the edge and you need to go really lightly. Pretend you're carefully shaving peach fuzz off the stone instead of trying to cut into it like a stick.

Here is a whittled hair. The Spyderco ultra fine benchstone gets the credit.

redhawk44p wrote:Here is a whittled hair. The Spyderco ultra fine benchstone gets the credit.

Nice job! My wife's hair is what I use to whittle test my knives, and it has proven way tougher than my own head hair for that, or most any other other hair I have treid for whittling. With my Manix I can get some whittling of my wife's hair with the ultra fine finish, but most of the time I need to go a bit finer to get a good whittling finish for my wife's hair.

Mike

This has been a great thread. Very informative.

Amazing photo Gunmike.

I can't climb Everest so it must be a myth that people can!

bell wrote:I know this has been beaten to death and thats why I was so dissapointed with my own efforts. I bought the Sharpmaker, I bought some Spyderco kitchen knives for my MIL, I keep them sharp and now I am the numero uno son in law. Their knives are sharp and they are happy but I keep looking for better results. Scary sharp, hair popping results.

I bought a 10x loop. I bought a strop. Las week I bought an Arkansas hard stone. I have lots of hair. I run the blade against the hairs and they just lean over and the blade rolls on. No haircut. I can shave with some edges because there is some resistance at the base of the follicle.

So finally the light has come on. Just like when I used to go snipe hunting. Hair popping sharp is a forum myth.

He he. I guess I should PM Dr. Snubnose and tell him that the sharpness of the Crossbill PE that I loaned him for the meat test is only a figment of his imagination. Problem is that I’d have to say the same thing to myself and Irish Lager since IL and myself have both examined the same edge used in the meat test.

I think that within the context of this thread there is a difference between what people refer to as “hair popping sharp”, and “shaving sharp”.

There have been a few instances where I have gotten a knife so sharp that it will slice hair off my arm without having to drag the edge on the surface of my arm. I’d just lay the blade flat on my arm and move it, and then watch the hair fly. I accomplished this with my Native III, a Meadowlark SS, and my aforementioned Crossbill PE. Hair popping sharp isn't a myth, but I do think it's something that isn't as common as some people claim.

That said. I don’t carry a knife if it doesn’t shave hair. If a knife gets that dull in the course of a day, and I don’t have time to sharpen it, then it gets put in my drawer and relieved of duty by another knife until it can be brought back to a respectable edge.

Using a dull knife is a good way to hurt yourself.

Just how sharp do you need your knife? All my Spydies came factory sharp. Do you need to shave with your knives? I have tried and been the worse for wear. A curved blade of inconsistent geometry should not be at your throat. I can give a hair popp'n edge to ZDP 189 but what is the point? The factory edge is almost as sharp and way more useful.

I've never tried to split hairs with a Spydie but if I could it would not be worth the effort. My prized Jess Horn LW will lopp hairs and is an exception to the rule. It scares me and I am (almost) fearless. Dang thing has cut me twice. Honestly, My Jess Horn LW will lop free-standing hairs and take names.

The dang thing has gotten my name several times.


Just another Spyder NUT (and sharp-insane-crazy-guy)

SPYderco,,, M'nnn good...

:spyder: I don't think need plays a part in any hobbyist conversation. I'm constantly trying to get my knives sharper because it's fun, not because I need them sharper. If a knife will effortlessly cut through an aggressor's leather jacket sleeve, sweat shirt sleeve and bicep in one swipe then it's "sharp enough", but why shouldn't it be
sharper? :spyder:

bell wrote:OK, maybe this is not some kind of kungfu, flying dragon mumbo jumbo.

Uh, you haven't seen my Kung Fu, flying dragon style...

Slick wrote:Just how sharp do you need your knife? All my Spydies came factory sharp. Do you need to shave with your knives? I have tried and been the worse for wear. A curved blade of inconsistent geometry should not be at your throat. I can give a hair popp'n edge to ZDP 189 but what is the point? The factory edge is almost as sharp and way more useful.

I've never tried to split hairs with a Spydie but if I could it would not be worth the effort. My prized Jess Horn LW will lopp hairs and is an exception to the rule. It scares me and I am (almost) fearless. Dang thing has cut me twice. Honestly, My Jess Horn LW will lop free-standing hairs and take names.

The dang thing has gotten my name several times.


Just another Spyder NUT (and sharp-insane-crazy-guy)

SPYderco,,, M'nnn good...

Most factory Spyderco edges pop hairs, and the last one I handled tree topped hair and split free hanging hair. An X coarse edge should be able to shave if you put it on properly, why would you not want to have the sharpest knife for any given grit finish? The sharper you get a knife at a given grit, them more cutting ability and edge retention you will have. When I finish with the Spyderco Medium stones my edges pop hairs, and they still have good slicing aggression for a good utility edge. If you aren't getting hair popping edges with a Spyderco brown stone then you aren't getting the most performance you can out of your blades at that grit. On good days with the right steels I can sometimes get my blades to shave above the skin at that grit. I recommend practicing until you get good shaving edges with X coarse or at least Coarse stones, then refining them from there. The better edge you put on with your coarsest stones, the better final edge you will have. Yes, taking the edge to a very high polish and splitting hairs so that little curls come off of them and make them look like a cornstalk aren't the best for slice cutting a lot of cardboard, but they pushcut and whittle extremely well and can hold that edge and cutting ability for a significant amount of time. If you are constantly getting cut by your knives you might want to look at how you are handling your blades. I got a good reminded a few months ago about that when I lopped my thumb in half lengthwise at the tip, it served as a very good reminded to pay attention to where the edge is at and is going at all times.

Mike

bell wrote:This has been a great thread. Very informative.

Amazing photo Gunmike.

That was Redhawk44P's photo, I can't take credit for that one. It is a great photo of hair splitting.

Mike

Have you cleaned the stones lately ?

Suprised no one has mentioned this.
The cleaner you keep the ceramics, the better edge you will get.

Should be able to shave easily , just by using clean brown ( med ) ceramics.

The voice of experience here... 18yrs of freehand, 5yrs with the 204MF & 303MF, 4yrs with a strop.

Just touched up my delica last night, got it hair popping sharp with little effort. No short session, but not a lot of effort either.

I usually just use a white eraser on my ceramics for cleaning. Does the job.

Stropped, hit the brown stones, hit the white, used 2.0 micron compound, used 0.5micron compound, hit the whites again, hit the 0.5micron again for longer and lighter, and finally the white again with little more than the blade's weight on it.

My kinda sharp, but doesn't last long under my normal use.

datan wrote:The falling scarf thing is a myth.... a hyperbole to illustrate something being extremely sharp ! There just isn't enough weight or counter-force of the scarf against the blade edge, no matter how sharp it is, to make the slice :rolleyes:

Wait til my lightsaber comes in. Then we'll re-test your hypothesis. :p

The sooner you wear your knive by sharpening, the quicker you have a reason to buy a new :spyder:

"The sharper you get a knife at a given grit, them more cutting ability and edge retention you will have"

i beg to differ.... my spoons hold their edges better than any of my knives.

these thick blades aren't meant for shaving. if they were, they wouldn't last long at all

but, for the knives I use rarely, I like to "try" to get them shaving sharp.

OnceBitten wrote:"The sharper you get a knife at a given grit, them more cutting ability and edge retention you will have"

i beg to differ.... my spoons hold their edges better than any of my knives.

these thick blades aren't meant for shaving. if they were, they wouldn't last long at all

but, for the knives I use rarely, I like to "try" to get them shaving sharp.

Sorry, I assumed we were speaking about knives when I made that statement, not spoons. And we are on the Spyderco forums, the company known for being among the sharpest out of the box edges there are, right? I was refering to the fact that if you sharpen the same knife with the same geometry and same grit stone, the sharper you get it initially the longer it will hold it's edge. For instance, if you get a knife to a finish that only roughly slices newsprint with a DMT X Coarse stone you won't get much in the way of edge retention. If you get it shaving smoothly with that finish (not hard to do with decent technique and burr removal), it will hold it's edge much longer, and cut much better. For a real world example after 64 cuts on 5/8" manilla rope (very abrasive stuff) over only 2" of cutting edge, a CPM D2 Military I was testing was still slicing newsprint a bit roughly (this was on a DMT Fine finish, a coarser finish would have sliced much better for longer, but I wanted the test to take as little time as possible), where in my early sharpening days I would have been happy to start with the edge that sharp at that grit. If I had started at that level of sharpness I may not have even been able to complete 64 cuts without using serious force to cut the rope, compromising safety.

At the same grit and angle the microteeth will be the same size for slicing agression, but the edge will be better aligned and burr free on the shaving finished knife. Thick knife or thin knife, the same knife finished to a higher push cutting sharpness at the same grit and geometry will have better edge retention than one that starts out duller. Just because you use a coarse finish doesn't mean you can't get an edge that shaves and push cuts newsprint, you just have to spend the time to form the edge right. If you want to try a coarse finished knife that will blow your mind with it's tree topping sharpness, try something sharpened by Tom Krein on his 120 grit belt. Those edges slice like a mother and pushcut great, too.

As for thick knives, I find the same thing holds true, though I definately prefer thin knives. I have a couple knives reground down to a .005" edge by Tom Krein that will amaze you with their cutting ability and edge retention. They also are easy to sharpen, as they have very little steel to hone and they sharpen up real quick.

Mike