CF Military Imperfections

[rcbalt2]

AG Russell sells seconds that have less imperfections than Huugh's CF Millie. Many surplus military rifles produced under less than ideal wartime conditions are finished as well or better.

As you may recall from my inquiry about a G10 Millie, the guys in Golden cannot even get all of the screws properly installed in a spacer.

If you want a perfect knife get a sebbie if you want a user get a Spyderco. If you just feel like complaining go somewhere else.

[flipe8]

There have been some rather emphatic responses to such a simple question, and understandably so as we are all eager to fend-off unnecessarily knit-picky criticism. But nowhere in his only post of the entire thread do I see a gripe in any way, shape, or form

The thing is, in my opinion, this IS being unnecessarily knit-picky, just through more subtle means. I guess it's all relative as I don't see such things as issues whereas others do. Nothing wrong with it one way or the other.
But if someone contiues to find a product falling short of their expectations, why would they continue to waste their time and money on it? That's what I was getting at when I posted. And it wasn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular.

[Trihonda]

Well, as the starter of the infamous "manix" thread, I feel your pain. You are simply asking about these imperfections and wondering if they are normal. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking, and it bothers me when people are quick to jump down someone's neck, just for asking a simple question. Thats what a friggin forum is for (info learning and sharing). If it's a sensitive subject, maybe some people need to toughen up? or maybe lighten up a bit. Ya'll know who you are. Don't you think a simple question is ok? You have to remember, not everyone here is a knife expert, and the newbies gotta learn somehow. Please be a tad more understanding of the rookies and their "dumb" questions. :) Why get mad and flame someone, when a simple brief education might be more appropriate. You'll live longer not stressing the small things.

NOW, if you'd started your post with "I HATE THIS F-IN MILITRY, SPYDERCO SUCKS, BLAH, BLAH, ETC...", I can totally see people wanting to flame you, but you were polite, and were simply unaware of what "normal" is on the knife. . :o

I personally find the imperfections you brought up to be normal, and would not worry about them. Enjoy. :spyder:

[TazKristi]

Ok, so this is a touchy subject for many. Here's my .02.

One word that is synonymous with Spyderco is passion. We all have it. All of you have it. Perhaps some more than others and perhaps some differ in the details of their passion. All good, just different.

I think much of the "heat" in this thread came from the comment made about motivating our QC Crew. For those of you who don't know, it's a small crew - all of Spyderco is. We're a relatively small group of people doing an international business in 50 countries. Our staff is 38 people strong, including Sal, Gail, Eric and those of us fortunate enough to work here (SFO, Factory, W&R/Customer Service, Purchasing, Accounting, Marketing, R&D, Shipping/Receiving, QC and Sales).

Combine our Crew, our Passion and our goal, Reliable High Performance™ with function before form and all at the most affordable price possible and you get Spyderco.

Do we care about what you have to say? ABSOLUTELY – we wouldn’t have this forum, let alone participate in it if we didn’t.

Do we know that we can’t make everyone perfectly happy every time? ABSOLUTELY – we don’t try to.

We do our absolute best, every day. Everything we do, every decision made has a direct effect on our ELU. You! So, we take it very seriously and we take it to heart. We strive to do better, always. We don’t believe in settling. We do however live in reality and the reality of form before function is tolerances.

Just as we have a passion for knives and pleasing you our ELU, some of our ELUs feel a strong passion for our products, for Sal, for Spyderco as a whole. So when it seems as if someone is questioning our crew, some of our ELUs take it personally. To be honest, I did at first. I see these people every day and I’ve never questioned their motivation or their desire to do the right thing. Do they make mistakes? ABSOLUTELY. We all do. We’re human. But in this case, these things are not mistakes; they are within tolerances. They abide by function before form and Reliable High Performance™ within the world of production knives.

In the end, I don’t think any harm was intended by the comment. I also don’t think there were any true flames. Just passion.

So, with that in mind, thank you to each and every one of you, for your passion and your commitment to us.

We appreciate you. :D

Kristi :spyder:

[Huntinfool]

:spyder: s Forever. I love my Spydeys I submit to you all that beauty is in the eye of the beholder! :spyder: :D :spyder:

Chuck :spyder:

[shu]

then again these imperfections might encourage you to actually use the knife more and therein lies the "secrets of the Spyderaddiction."....

This certainly rings true... I might be tempted to let my Delica sit in drawer were it not for the ever-so-faint dimpling (for lack of a better term) behind the "SPYDERCO - ZDP-189"--what a waste of a fine knife that would be!

[zenheretic]

This certainly rings true... I might be tempted to let my Delica sit in drawer were it not for the ever-so-faint dimpling (for lack of a better term) behind the "SPYDERCO - ZDP-189"--what a waste of a fine knife that would be!

I bought a used, boxless CF Police just so I wouldn't feel bad about carrying it. (I suffer from a healthy dose of collectoritis.) Luckily it is so well made, the few times I've posted pics of it, I've received private compliments. Yet one more reason why we have our Spydie passion. :cool: :spyder:

[The Deacon]

Where did "defects" you mentioned come from (AFAIK not from me)? Imperfection is just what it says - that something is not perfect. Defect is when something is wrong, isn't it? Your willingness to defend Spyderco against heretics like me is admirable but maybe it makes you read something else than I wrote.

In other words - when you buy a lens to your camera and it has some color abberation then it is not perfect. When you buy a lens that pictures only half of the screen then it is defective.

I put "defects" in quotes, to empahasis that I did not feel the minute blemishes you felt compelled to present to the world in the hopes they might "motivate Spyderco QC workers" :rolleyes: fell into that category.

AG Russell sells seconds that have less imperfections than Huugh's CF Millie. Many surplus military rifles produced under less than ideal wartime conditions are finished as well or better.

I really doubt the first is true, at least my experience with AGR's seconds has not shown that to be the case. The rare instance where it may at least come close to being true would involve knives that AGR markets as collectables, and on which their pricing structure is geared to that level of perfection.

I find the second so totally absurd that, combined with your prior assertion that "mail ordering Spydercos is like playing Russian roulette", it make me realize we must be living in different universes, or at least separate realities. :rolleyes:

[Zac]

I have said it before and you cannot make perfect carbon fiber unless it is the ORIGINAL weave. I had the original prototype lip for my car and that ran me a nice $1500 (this is the front lip only). Look on anything that is carbon fiber and you will see it has imprefections.

Now, drilling carbon fiber is a B**** and cutting it is even worse. I am sure Spyderco went through many handles to make good ones. In the line of acceptable versus not, it is plenty. It is a work knife, not a show queen. You won't find carbon fiber many places for that price.

[huugh]

I agree that "motivating" part (although a smilie followed, so it shouldn't had been taken so seriously as it was) of my post wasn't the most fortunate formulation. Especially considering this as so sensitive subject to many people here.


Still I think bit nit-picking isn't so bad as anyone can judge wheter he/she subjectively considers it perfect or almost perfect (see, I am already afraid to say not perfect :D ).

If I should compare it - years ago people would act similarly to (some of) you (e.g. "if you want perfection buy a sebenza" <=> "if you want ZDP buy a WH for $300"/"if you want supersteel buy a custom"/"it would raise the cost, therefore it is not necessary") when someone would say that having a "super steel" (let it be VG10, S30V or ZDP189 (or planned S125V)) in normal knife for under $100/70/50 would be nice. But now we have $40 S30V, $65 ZDP etc. I wouldn't be much surprised if in few years Spyderco will be producing knives in exotic steels with Sebenza's F&F for $100. (and I am looking forward to )


Hadn't :spyder: been fulfilling (similar) lusts for better and better properties we would have no other option than to settle down to Opinels.

[spydutch]

When I first started collecting Spydies and before this forum, I never even noticed some of the "imperfections" we talk about.

However, after joining this forum and reading some of the comments about off centered blades, gaps between lock bar and scales ect, I started to look at my blades more closely and those imperfections suddenly started to bother me as well. I even put aside my all time favourite Paramil because of an off centered blade because of this.

However, after using my Delica 3/SE for work every day for the past 2 month, I discovered where it's all actually about: CUTTING ABILITY. My Delica has it's small imperfections, but it cuts like a lazer and that is what's the most important thing about a knife.

I must atmit that I'm still a bit disappointed when I receive a knife with " imperfections" but I'm slowly starting to get over them and just enjoy the knife as a high performance cutting tool.

As the matter of fact, I'm going to clip my Paramil to my pocket this instance.

[JD Spydo]

Well I tend to agree with what "TRIHONDA" said about the Brother's (Huugh) post about the CF Military model. Let's look at this in perspective>> first of all the CF Military is hardly an ordinary "user" type knife as you would think of the TASMAN, Endura, Delica ect,. Not that it wouldn't make a great user but most knives of that status invaribly end up in collections. So with that being said I think it is only reasonable to take a hard look at the knife in question.

But on the other hand I can also agree with "4ster"'s input about "just how perfect can you expect a production knife to be". The bottom line is that a production knife is liable to have a number of minor and insignificant flaws.

But the CF Military by all fairness is an upper tier Spyder by any of our standards. And I think the brother was probably making that observation about the CF Military in particular because he probably thinks that the "collectible grade" Spyders ( which the CF Military is) should be looked at a bit closer than the average user to come forth from the factory.

But the paramount issue here is that we are talking about a production knife. As "4ster" said there is no such thing as a PERFECT production knife. I would stick my neck out a say that there is probably no such thing as a perfect custom knife either.

But the minor and I mean extremely minor flaws in question just don't even matter at all when you see the overall construction of this model. I think you would have to look very hard in the production knife world to find an equal ( quality wise) of any of Spyderco's upper tier knives. So with that being said I think we got to be careful not to magnify things out of proportion. None of the mentioned imperfections would affect the tool value and usability of the knife what so ever.

But on the other hand I can admire a guy who is that analytical about his hobby. Because it truly has been an interesting thread with some great input so please try to understand where "Huugh" is coming from and try to give the guy a break. I am sure he meant well with all things being considered. :) :spyder:

[The Deacon]

[quote="huugh"]wouldn't be much surprised if in few years Spyderco will be producing knives in exotic steels with Sebenza's F&F for $100. (and I am looking forward to ]Huugh, will agree with you there. If only because I've lived long enough and seen enough change, some for the better, some for the worse, that very little surprises me.

Can tell you that, in the here-and-now, you should try to get your hands on a Volpe and examine it. If you're right handed and can live with the styling, I think it's the closest thing to CRK quality fit and finish you will ever find in a knife with a $100 "street price" in the USA. I realize stainless is both less expensive and easier to work than titanium, but I'm just comparing workmanship, not materials.

[huugh]

The Deacon - I will consider it when my next purchase will take the place


[joke]BTW there isn't a unity on following topic here either. :)

But the paramount issue here is that we are talking about a production knife. As "4ster" said there is no such thing as a PERFECT production knife. I would stick my neck out a say that there is probably no such thing as a perfect custom knife either.

If you want a perfect knife get a sebbie if you want a user get a Spyderco. If you just feel like complaining go somewhere else.

[/joke]

[WORKER#9]

I keep beating this drum, The Titanium ATR is perfect, both examples I have are flawless. Custom qaulity!

I looked at my CF Military it looks fine to me. :)

[4 s ter]

I keep beating this drum, The Titanium ATR is perfect, both examples I have are flawless. Custom qaulity!

I looked at my CF Military it looks fine to me. :)

:D Maybe you just haven't used enough magnification