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Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:54 pm
by Surfingringo
I think I would like to see significantly more belly in the blade on something like that (like a less extreme catcherman blade). Enough that I could get at least half the edge on a flat surface like a cutting board. Seems a waste to have that much blade and not be able to use anything but the tip on a flat surface.
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:30 pm
by vivi
I really like the minimal belly on the Police series. In fact for a lot of uses I'd take something closer to the P1-3 than the P4 blade shape, though the P4 is more versatile.
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:40 pm
by Mushroom
@vivi I think we're on the same page. There
is some constraint put on lockback design when that closing tradition is a requirement. I dont think there needs to be a compromise with this particular design though. I think the edge can be brought all the way back to the handle and also retain enough kick to use their finger drop closing method.
@sal Thanks for the update, thats good to know! I might be using the incorrect term for what I had in mind but when I say "floating stop pin" I did not mean the style of internal stop pin used on the Chaparral but I was thinking more along the lines of the style of stop pin used in the Parata, produced in Seki City.
Screenshot taken from YouTube video -
How to disassemble and maintain the Spyderco Parata Pocketknife
I feel like a small stop pin like that could fit in a larger Police design without having any impact on the function. It could be positioned in such a way that the choil/
lock pivot kick can effectively be removed in favor of extending the edge all the way to the handle. I believe there might still be enough blade left to act as a kick to safely drop it on to the finger in this configuration as well.
Photo used from
@vivi's thread -
"Police 4 Blade Swap"
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 8:53 pm
by xceptnl
Surfingringo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:54 pm
I think I would like to see significantly more belly in the blade on something like that (like a less extreme catcherman blade). Enough that I could get at least half the edge on a flat surface like a cutting board. Seems a waste to have that much blade and not be able to use anything but the tip on a flat surface.
Good to see you drop by.
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 9:44 pm
by ZrowsN1s
vivi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:30 pm
I really like the minimal belly on the Police series. In fact for a lot of uses I'd take something closer to the P1-3 than the P4 blade shape, though the P4 is more versatile.
I agree on the minimal belly (for my taste), heck I'd take a Wharncliffe if they'd make one.
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:51 pm
by Wartstein
vivi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 1:36 pm
But, I can't help but feel lockback design may be held back to a degree by these built up habits.
One handed opening pocket knives were a pretty big departure in how they operate compared to stockmans and barlows. Pocket clips also changed how they were carried dramatically.
So to me the idea of pushing the envelope in this particularly small niche doesn't seem so radical. But I also understand Spydercos position - I'd also be reluctant to design a product that flies in the face of the methods I've been teaching customers for half a century.
...
The matter is a bit complicated indeed..
- On the one hand of course sticking to "built up habits [and beliefs]" would have hindered a a lot of or most innovations or just alternative designs, generally and also in the knife world (if for example everybody would still be convinced that serrations are so hard to sharpen Spyderco probably would not have refined theirs to the degree they have now, just cause a lot less people would have been interested in SE folders).
- And of course it is completely understandable and justified to wish for at least some backlock models with truly as much as edge as possible, if one knows how easy it is to close a backlock without dropping the blade (or in this case then the
edge) on the finger.
- But: The problem is that in the process of trying to change THIS particular habit people could actually get hurt - of course a bad thing in itself, but also for Spydercos reputation.
Just cause many buyers of such "maximum edge length backlock folder" would probably not even realize that it has to be closed in a different way than they are used to and nick their fingers...
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:58 pm
by Wartstein
Surfingringo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:54 pm
I think I would like to see significantly more belly in the blade on something like that (like a less extreme catcherman blade). Enough that I could get at least half the edge on a flat surface like a cutting board. Seems a waste to have that much blade and not be able to use anything but the tip on a flat surface.
vivi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:30 pm
I really like the minimal belly on the Police series. In fact for a lot of uses I'd take something closer to the P1-3 than the P4 blade shape, though the P4 is more versatile.
Interesting new discussion point....
- One thing I definitely like in a folder is a rather "low" sitting tip (in comparison to where the hand sits on the handle), so if more belly also means "higher" tip it would be a con for me (but with more negative blade angles knives with a lot of belly still can offer a "low" tip).
- I also like a long, straight edge section starting from the heel of the blade rather than a pronounced, contiuous curve.
This means in shorter knives I want a bell that starts to raise rather close to the tip
- The Police though has such a long blade that "long straight edge section" and "a good amount of belly" could potentially co-exist on the same blade... I´d have to get a Police in hand to actually form an opinion here.
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 12:19 am
by sal
Hi Gernot,
I guess we'll see what the reactions are when we finally release the 5" Police model? I'm currently waiting for drawings and plastic models of the two variations of the model.
We know that we can't please all of the people all of the time, but we do our best.
sal
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 1:38 am
by CDEP
sal wrote: ↑Tue Apr 08, 2025 12:19 am
Hi Gernot,
I guess we'll see what the reactions are when we finally release the 5" Police model? I'm currently waiting for drawings and plastic models of the two variations of the model.
We know that we can't please all of the people all of the time, but we do our best.
sal
You could call it the "Five-O"
"Book 'em, Danno. Murder One."
Can't wait, Sal. Thanks for the insights and updates!
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 7:24 am
by vivi
really excited to see any drawings when you're able to share them Sal.
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:18 am
by Tristan_david2001
When’s spyderco every released the drawings before the actual model..
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:40 am
by horzuff
Mis/overinterpreted some messages, sorry
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 10:45 am
by vivi
Tristan_david2001 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:18 am
When’s spyderco every released the drawings before the actual model..
"when you're able to share them Sal."
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 1:08 pm
by Tristan_david2001
I have doubts we’ll see the drawing before the actual prototype. That’s typically how it works, I’m happy for those looking forward to this model
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 1:47 pm
by vivi
I'm just excited to see the model man. Don't care if it's a drawing, a plastic mock-up or a release prototype. Just want to see what Sal has in mind.
This could potentially be a new favorite for me. It's like if Sal made a post saying he's bringing back moki made micarta caly jr's
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 8:53 am
by ZrowsN1s
This is exciting news indeed.
As a side note, I tried as hard as I could yesterday with my Police4 PD1 sprint, to close the knife in a different way than using my thumb to depress the lock and dropping the ricaso onto my finger.
I don't know if it's poor technique, weak finger strength, or more likely due to having small hands, but I could not depress the lock with my index finger if my life depended on it. Similarly I found I couldn't use my thumb for the lock while using my index finger in the spydie hole to lower the blade.
The only two alternative closing methods that worked for me were two handed, or using my thumb to depress the lock with at least one finger in the blade path so I could use enough force to press the lock, and then very gently starting to close the knife by pushing the spine against my leg. Then moving my fingers out of the way, and closing it all the way.
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:20 pm
by Wartstein
sal wrote: ↑Tue Apr 08, 2025 12:19 am
Hi Gernot,
I guess we'll see what the reactions are when we finally release the 5" Police model? I'm currently waiting for drawings and plastic models of the two variations of the model.
We know that we can't please all of the people all of the time, but we do our best.
sal
Sal,
a 5" Police will be an amazing knife in any case, regardless if it has a bit more or less belly, the tip sits a bit "higher" or "lower", with finger choil or with "handle forward"
Very exciting and thanx you´re doing this - can´t wait to see what the result will be!
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2025 12:47 am
by gk4ever2
vivi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:30 pm
I really like the minimal belly on the Police series. In fact for a lot of uses I'd take something closer to the P1-3 than the P4 blade shape, though the P4 is more versatile.
I agree about the minimal belly of the older Police versions. I also like the thinness of the current C07S/C07P (I'm not sure what generation these are like), and the blade shape and blade angle to the handle. The P4 is ok, but not my favorite. Make a longer C07S/C07P, with either a G-10 or steel handle, and sign me up!
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:15 am
by Snacktime
sal wrote: ↑Tue Apr 08, 2025 12:19 am
Hi Gernot,
I guess we'll see what the reactions are when we finally release the 5" Police model? I'm currently waiting for drawings and plastic models of the two variations of the model.
We know that we can't please all of the people all of the time, but we do our best.
sal
I need this by Christmas! The one day a year my family can't make fun of me for enjoying cutting up boxes!
Re: Police XL Talk
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2025 10:03 am
by Bill1170
vivi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:02 pm
p_atrick wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 2:15 pm
Vivi,
On a previous page, you talked about how we (those of us who use the blade-drop) need to expand our methods for closing a back lock knife one-handed. I looked over the videos you posted, and decided to give it a shot. It still feels a bit clumsy and not very secure with my Police 4 (it works like a charm on my Siren, however). I'm not totally sure this is an issue related to practice. My hand feels like its at its limit for dexterity when using only my index finger to close the blade. Wartstein's method of using the index finger to start moving the blade and then the thumb to close the blade feels better.
I don't think my hands aren't big enough to comfortably close the blade with only my index finger on a larger knife. Or, at the very least, when the distance between the Spydie hole and the lock bar becomes too large (see the very unscientific photo below). I wouldn't be surprised if this distance is related to blade length. I'm guessing that there are some physics at work. Either the lock becomes "weaker" when you shrink the distance between the hole and lock bar, or it becomes more challenging to disengage the lock when this distance decreases. Or maybe it is something altogether different. I'd be interested if anybody with some knife-making experience could shed some light on this.
did you try pressing the lock releaae with your index finger and swinging the blade shut?
the siren is the easiest model to do that method with that I've tried.
I've been doing the swing shut with my index finger method for over 15 years, so it's second nature.
how about pressing the lock release with your thumb and pushing the spine of the blade against your leg? lets of people close slipjoints that way, and I close buck 110's that way, but for some reason that option is never on the table when people talk about closing modern knives one handed.
I close my mid-lock folders against my leg all the time. It’s not fast or “cool,” but is safe and reliable, and has become second nature. I use other methods sometimes as well.