Watching this, I see a LOT of Choy Lee Fut. And I was a little surprised when he even mentioned Choy Lee Fut (he even pronounced it correctly = "Choy Lay Fut") among the Chinese systems that have certain things he was showing. Even that old-school bare knuckle boxing guard is very similar to the guard posiition used in our Choy Lee Fut lineage (which is a rare lineage). That oval-shaped motion he uses in his guard and when lead-hand punching does have some resemblance to the Wing Chun chain punching. He also mentioned Lama Pai (AKA Hop Gar; AKA Tibetan White Crane), which contains circular blows and fully turned-over punches and strikes virtually identical to Choy Lee Fut, including the reverse knuckle/backfist uppercut. Hung Kuen (AKA Hung Gar) also has the reverse knuckle uppercut.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Mr. Cestari giving credit where credit is due, in regards to the Kung Fu systems that contain these techniques and principles.
Many years back, I communicated with Marc "Animal" MacYoung, and he was well aware of the practicality of some of the more combat-oriiented Kung Fu systems, including Choy Lee Fut, and some of the Crane systems.
Jim
Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2024 12:03 pm
by James Y
"This is Strictly Business. Nothing Personal." David Tua vs Shane Cameron
David Tua was an absolute beast.
Jim
Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2024 7:15 pm
by James Y
"This is Why People Suck at Fighting"
*Video below:
I agree with him for the most part, although he left out a TON of reasons why street attacks are different from a sport fight. Namely, there are no rules against weapons, number of attackers, size and weight differences, age differences, differences in real fight experience, stomping a downed opponent, etc.
Many armchair warriors have ridiculous ideas about real self-defense, believing that "dirty fighting," or using any type of weapon to even the odds against an attacker, is "cowardly." Any attack on the street is already not fair, because they attack without provocation those they have determined to be easy enough targets, which they consider to be an acceptable risk to the attacker. They are already not playing by any rules, other than doing or getting whatever they want. They operate under no constraints. A person who would constrain themselves with an artificial set of rules to "be a hero and fight fair" is an idiot.
We are not (or at least I am not) talking about some one-on-one brawl between drunken frat brothers. I am talking about predatory street attacks. BIG differences.
I agree with him for the most part, although he left out a TON of reasons why street attacks are different from a sport fight. Namely, there are no rules against weapons, number of attackers, size and weight differences, age differences, differences in real fight experience, stomping a downed opponent, etc.
Many armchair warriors have ridiculous ideas about real self-defense, believing that "dirty fighting," or using any type of weapon to even the odds against an attacker, is "cowardly." Any attack on the street is already not fair, because they attack without provocation those they have determined to be easy enough targets, which they consider to be an acceptable risk to the attacker. They are already not playing by any rules, other than doing or getting whatever they want. They operate under no constraints. A person who would constrain themselves with an artificial set of rules to "be a hero and fight fair" is an idiot.
We are not (or at least I am not) talking about some one-on-one brawl between drunken frat brothers. I am talking about predatory street attacks. BIG differences.
Jim
The gentleman in the video is martial artist Jason Inay and he and his sister, John Peterson and David Ruiz were my instructors in Inayan for around 6 months when I lived in Silicon Valley. They are all excellent martial artists. I would have trained with them a heck of a lot more but the company business unit that I worked at was shutting down and I was scrambling to save a relationship by getting another job....my gf wasn't happy. I moved out and went off to Stockton, CA to study with 3 different schools, then home to Illinois.
I'll watch the video and see if there is anything else that I can add.
I agree with him for the most part, although he left out a TON of reasons why street attacks are different from a sport fight. Namely, there are no rules against weapons, number of attackers, size and weight differences, age differences, differences in real fight experience, stomping a downed opponent, etc.
Many armchair warriors have ridiculous ideas about real self-defense, believing that "dirty fighting," or using any type of weapon to even the odds against an attacker, is "cowardly." Any attack on the street is already not fair, because they attack without provocation those they have determined to be easy enough targets, which they consider to be an acceptable risk to the attacker. They are already not playing by any rules, other than doing or getting whatever they want. They operate under no constraints. A person who would constrain themselves with an artificial set of rules to "be a hero and fight fair" is an idiot.
We are not (or at least I am not) talking about some one-on-one brawl between drunken frat brothers. I am talking about predatory street attacks. BIG differences.
Jim
The gentleman in the video is martial artist Jason Inay and he and his sister, John Peterson and David Ruiz were my instructors in Inayan for around 6 months when I lived in Silicon Valley. They are all excellent martial artists. I would have trained with them a heck of a lot more but the company business unit that I worked at was shutting down and I was scrambling to save a relationship by getting another job....my gf wasn't happy. I moved out and went off to Stockton, CA to study with 3 different schools, then home to Illinois.
I'll watch the video and see if there is anything else that I can add.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for sharing, Naperville.
It's only a short video where he speaks a bit. I'll try to find some more of his videos.
I agree with him for the most part, although he left out a TON of reasons why street attacks are different from a sport fight. Namely, there are no rules against weapons, number of attackers, size and weight differences, age differences, differences in real fight experience, stomping a downed opponent, etc.
Many armchair warriors have ridiculous ideas about real self-defense, believing that "dirty fighting," or using any type of weapon to even the odds against an attacker, is "cowardly." Any attack on the street is already not fair, because they attack without provocation those they have determined to be easy enough targets, which they consider to be an acceptable risk to the attacker. They are already not playing by any rules, other than doing or getting whatever they want. They operate under no constraints. A person who would constrain themselves with an artificial set of rules to "be a hero and fight fair" is an idiot.
We are not (or at least I am not) talking about some one-on-one brawl between drunken frat brothers. I am talking about predatory street attacks. BIG differences.
Jim
The gentleman in the video is martial artist Jason Inay and he and his sister, John Peterson and David Ruiz were my instructors in Inayan for around 6 months when I lived in Silicon Valley. They are all excellent martial artists. I would have trained with them a heck of a lot more but the company business unit that I worked at was shutting down and I was scrambling to save a relationship by getting another job....my gf wasn't happy. I moved out and went off to Stockton, CA to study with 3 different schools, then home to Illinois.
I'll watch the video and see if there is anything else that I can add.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for sharing, Naperville.
It's only a short video where he speaks a bit. I'll try to find some more of his videos.
Jim
Jason Inay also has DVDs. I think I have all but one of them, and I have to pony up for it. With the training, the DVDs are a good refresher. What you do not get on the DVDs is how fast that things are done, but you can get the feel for the art by looking for YouTube videos on Angel Cabales, Mike Inay(Jason's Father and the Founder of Inayan), and Jason Inay.
There are some phenomenal videos out there. Mike Inay was one of Angel Cabales' Master students, and he helped Angel develop the training program for Cabales Serrada. It is one of the oldest arnis / escrima / serrada styles in the USA.
One of my main strikes is the palm heel hook, which is very similar to this, except he throws his more like a boxer's overhand right. The delivery I use on mine is a bit shorter and more horizontal; my elbow is a bit higher and is slightly bent, to align the forearm bones and palm heel into the target, thrown more like a slightly long hook punch. My hand and bent fingers are also held horizontally, instead of diagonally. Having the elbow a bit higher gives me more leverage and force in the strike, and it can whip around someone's guard. I also throw mine from wherever my hand happens to be, usually from closer to the opponent, with less wind-up. You can still get the same amount of torque behind it.
The lateral step, body torque, and slight weight drop that he shows are virtually identical to the way I do my palm heel hook.
Both methods are excellent, I just described my way of doing it that works for me.
In Choy Lee Fut, the palm heel hook is called Sau Jeung (Sweeping Palm). However, I'm one of the only CLF guys I know of who actually emphasizes training the palm heel hook, and who has adapted it as part of a simplified, personalized system that is strictly for SD, with no extraneous movements. I strongly believe in taking the most practical (mostly gross motor movement) skills from whatever art you learn and breaking them down to their essence.
Obviously, you cannot actually strike another person with the palm heel hook in practice, or in controlled sparring. It's an all-or-nothing type of blow. The feedback comes from hitting dummies and heavy bags. A lot.
Jim
Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:03 pm
by James Y
"I watched 100 Real Knife Fights ... This is What I Learned"
This video is embedding right now, because it was just posted. I'm pretty sure that within hours from now, it will become restricted and turned into a link to watch it on YouTube.
Jim
Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2024 9:42 pm
by James Y
Fairbairn Method Gutter Fighting - Effective Targeting for the Edge-of-Hand Blow
Jim
Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread
Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2024 12:36 pm
by Scandi Grind
I'm quite curious at this point, is there any reliable source of information that covers Fairbairn's general fighting system that he taught, or is there not really a good documented source of his principles. When looking for inspiration from men with experience in real fights he is on the short list for sure. I'd really like to do some more research on him and his fighting tactics.
I'm quite curious at this point, is there any reliable source of information that covers Fairbairn's general fighting system that he taught, or is there not really a good documented source of his principles. When looking for inspiration from men with experience in real fights he is on the short list for sure. I'd really like to do some more research on him and his fighting tactics.
I could be wrong, I may have the info in my head mixed up, but Carl Cestari was a follower of the techniques used by Applegate and Fairbairn, and there are some videos of both on YouTube Carl Cestari(quite a few videos) and Fairbairn(far less videos). There are books on Rex Applegate and Fairbairn at Amazon.
I'm quite curious at this point, is there any reliable source of information that covers Fairbairn's general fighting system that he taught, or is there not really a good documented source of his principles. When looking for inspiration from men with experience in real fights he is on the short list for sure. I'd really like to do some more research on him and his fighting tactics.
I could be wrong, I may have the info in my head mixed up, but Carl Cestari was a follower of the techniques used by Applegate and Fairbairn, and there are some videos of both on YouTube Carl Cestari(quite a few videos) and Fairbairn(far less videos). There are books on Rex Applegate and Fairbairn at Amazon.
Somebody who might know more of the history of these two people is @Michael Janich
I first learned about Carl Cestari from you sharing about him, Naperville, but my impression is that his main influence (along with many other sources) was Charles Nelson, the legendary New York self-defense teacher. I do know that Cestari trained under him. Nelson appears to have had an indirect influence from William Fairbairn's method.
This is a very brief description of Fairbairn's career.
Fairbairn adapted from more than only Jujutsu/Judo and boxing to create his Defendu CQC system. He was also influenced by the Chinese system of Bagua (Baguazhang, or Eight Trigrams Palm). I don’t know how MUCH of the art he was actually exposed to, but he was probably the very first Westerner to have been taught Bagua to any degree at all, even if only superficially.
I heard one story about Fairbairn giving a demonstration on stage in front of a crowd. At the time, Fairbairn was already an old man. One burly skeptic stood up from the audience and challenged him. It was said that in spite of his advanced age, Fairbairn easily manhandled the challenger and knocked him off the stage, sending him into the audience.
Jim
Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 2:51 pm
by James Y
57 Year old, Insane Striking Power
I find it interesting that the older I get, the more amusing it is what younger people consider 'old'. In my 20s, I thought 40-something was old. Now at 61, I don't consider 57 to be old at all. It's funny to me when people call a 40 or 50 year old 'an old man' or 'senior citizen'. There are actual old men out there who can still hit viciously, and with KO power.
This guy is middle-aged; still having the ability to mess people up at 57 is not a surprise at all, if he's been training and has taken care of himself for many years, as it appears he has. And it's obvious that he also has a considerable amount of real-life fighting experience under his belt. That doesn't just disappear when you start getting older, barring any serious health issues.
Not that I'm any comparison to him, but I hit harder now with my hands, elbows, etc., than I did in my 20s and 30s. It's not because I'm in any better shape than I was back then (I'm not); it's because my emphasis and mindset have shifted. As you get older, you take more seriously the fact that you cannot afford to *bleep* around.
I'm quite curious at this point, is there any reliable source of information that covers Fairbairn's general fighting system that he taught, or is there not really a good documented source of his principles. When looking for inspiration from men with experience in real fights he is on the short list for sure. I'd really like to do some more research on him and his fighting tactics.
I could be wrong, I may have the info in my head mixed up, but Carl Cestari was a follower of the techniques used by Applegate and Fairbairn, and there are some videos of both on YouTube Carl Cestari(quite a few videos) and Fairbairn(far less videos). There are books on Rex Applegate and Fairbairn at Amazon.
Somebody who might know more of the history of these two people is @Michael Janich
I first learned about Carl Cestari from you sharing about him, Naperville, but my impression is that his main influence (along with many other sources) was Charles Nelson, the legendary New York self-defense teacher. I do know that Cestari trained under him. Nelson appears to have had an indirect influence from William Fairbairn's method.
YOU ARE CORRECT, and that is why I usually issue a disclaimer when I post. I read so many articles and see so many pictures I get confused.
There are many photographs of Cestari and Applegate, but I have no proof they were anything more than acquaintences. The documents that I have read say that USMC Self Defence Intructor Charles Nelson, was one of Cestari's main instructors.
Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 4:55 pm
by James Y
A Lack of Manners & Respect Can Cost Your Life
This is totally unrelated to martial arts, except for one thing, which applies to many things in life:
Don't. Underestimate. Anyone.
Jim
Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 9:40 pm
by Naperville
Think long and hard about interveining in a situation involving people that you do not know.
High ranking boxer loses his eye when trying to stop a group beating up a teen.