Leatherman are operating on some really strong substances, trying to get close to $300 for the blacked out Arc. That's a $150 tool at best with a $130 markup for the blade. They're really hoping people are willing to pay multitool plus knife money for that MagnaCut blade, and maybe if I were limited to just one tool and couldn't carry a knife with it I might bite but I already have a modded Supertool 300 that suits me better.
As for MagnaCut I'm personally way past the honeymoon phase and I still absolutely love it. I use my MagnaCut mule everyday and it still impresses me. It wouldn't take the place of every steel for me but I'd be perfectly content with it being the standard steel for every knife. I don't feel that you'd lose anything if suddenly VG10 and S30V and all the other similar steels in this range suddenly disappeared and all you had to choose from was MagnaCut. I can't see a scenario where making a model in MagnaCut hurts sales.
Right now I really think the "mic drop" move that Spyderco could do with this steel would be to (for once) publish their hardness numbers. The initial hype of this steel quickly turned into a conversation of "yeah it's great but at what hardness" and we've seen people doing independent testing and I think they need to take back control of that discussion and put the numbers out there. Kershaw did this with their MagnaCut and people love it (me included) because I feel a lot more confident about my MagnaCut Livewire that they showed tested around 64HRC than I do about Leatherman's MagnaCut Arc that's reported to be around 60HRC.
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I grabbed one, worth it to me. For the amount of tools and features it has it is well worth $275. Spydercos are pushing this nowadays easily as well.
I can't tell you you're wrong for liking it, I just can't justify $125 for the blade vs the cost of a P4. The tool set may be better than a P4 but the tool options are also a whole can of worms, I'm convinced that Leatherman intentionally make their tool layouts "almost perfect". You can't please everyone but they surely know what most people want by now, it makes no sense that they don't do the Arc tool combo on other models. It's also suspicious that the P4 was (seemingly) discontinued or perpetually out of stock right after the Arc came out, leaving you with only the more expensive option.
We all have our methods of justifying cost. If I ever see a really good sale on one I might pick one up. I almost never use multitool blade so it's just not a big selling point for me.
What's funny is I have about $300 invested into this Supertool 300 build, so it's not just about the money. I call it the Supertool $300
That’s a pretty sweet build. You able to break it down? (Forgive me if you’ve already done so somewhere.)
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I grabbed one, worth it to me. For the amount of tools and features it has it is well worth $275. Spydercos are pushing this nowadays easily as well.
I can't tell you you're wrong for liking it, I just can't justify $125 for the blade vs the cost of a P4. The tool set may be better than a P4 but the tool options are also a whole can of worms, I'm convinced that Leatherman intentionally make their tool layouts "almost perfect". You can't please everyone but they surely know what most people want by now, it makes no sense that they don't do the Arc tool combo on other models. It's also suspicious that the P4 was (seemingly) discontinued or perpetually out of stock right after the Arc came out, leaving you with only the more expensive option.
We all have our methods of justifying cost. If I ever see a really good sale on one I might pick one up. I almost never use multitool blade so it's just not a big selling point for me.
What's funny is I have about $300 invested into this Supertool 300 build, so it's not just about the money. I call it the Supertool $300
That’s a pretty sweet build. You able to break it down? (Forgive me if you’ve already done so somewhere.)
It's weird, I kept waiting for Spyderco to release their Magnacut, by the time they did the market was saturated with it. Even Leatherman. Somewhere along the way I lost my fomo.
I also lost my FOMO after I got a few from Chris Reeve in Magnacut, because I am completely satisfied by them. CRK was an early adopter, with Magnacut heat treated hard (and IMO correctly) from the start. That removed the one major thing that I disliked about CRK, their reputation for "low" heat treatments at a high price.
I like the steel a lot and carry it often. Even got the PM2. Itch scratched hard.
I would not mind to see more Magnacut as a "standard" steel in the line, as long as it is heat treated appropriately. It fills a certain niche, and could unseat many similar steels playing in that same area. I do not however see it replace most of the other interesting steels offered by Spyderco. Variety is the spice of life.
I have been tempted by the CRK's many times but never pulled the trigger. I've bought some knives in that price range, McNee's custom, Strider, Microtech. And while I've never been disappointed with any of those purchases at all. I also find that my money goes further with Spyderco, Emerson, etc. Money is tighter too, this economy sucks and home/auto insurance rates in California are absolutely ridiculous now (not to mention the cost of gas and food). Still, every now and then I give CRK a hard look.
-Matta.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
I hear you, $500+ is a lot if cash for a non-essential purchase, and Spyderco will get you much further.
Sometimes for me, the lightweights don’t scratch the itch, and buying them turns out to be much more expensive over the long term: I'd start out with an affordable lightweight, find out that I like the steel, add one or two cool variations over time, and in the end I'd cave and buy the expensive knife I tried to avoid in the first place!
Cutting out the lower tiers saves me money!
Hans Favourite Spydies: Military S90V, PM2 Cruwear, Siren LC200N, UKPK S110V, Endela Wharncliffe K390 Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK: L Sebenza, L Inkosi, Umnumzaan
I had an interesting phone conversation with a vendor recently, and I'm not going to mention their name and throw them under the bus but I promise this was a real conversation.
I've been on the hunt for a particular Hinderer and I was calling around just taking a shot seeing if there was any chance someone had one, even one of the employees that might be willing to sell their own. I asked one guy if he knew if Hinderer planned on running MagnaCut again (and this question came before I had any idea about that whole drama), and he said that he's heard a lot of knife makers are moving away from MagnaCut because "it has a high failure rate" and I asked what he meant and he said it's a PITA to heat treat and often results in a lot of scrap during manufacturing.
Until a maker speaks out and confirms this, it's just speculation, but I wonder if this is why Spyderco were slower to bring it out? Maybe they struggled with it, or maybe everyone else rushed it and Spyderco saw problems and held back and tried to make it better.
The heat treat topic is interesting to me. I can't help but feel that a big part of this topic is psychological. I'm not denying that there's a real difference in performance from say 60-62 vs 63-64, but I don't know how many people can truly tell the difference or if it's a placebo effect. An example for me is my mule, I've had nothing but joy out of that knife only to hear that apparently they were ran on the lower end of hardness. Then I wonder if maybe I'm just ignorant because I don't have a 64HRC MagnaCut blade to compare it to, so I don't know how much better it can be.
This looks to be accurate. Here is what Peters' Heat Treating says regarding Magnacut:
All Magnacut should be prepped in accordance with best industry practice, i.e. surface ground – oversized. Due to the fine structure of this steel, any mill scale or oxidation remaining on the surface can impact the heat treat response negatively in the form of excessive distortion and/or potential decarburization at the surface. Peters’ Heat Treating will strive to do our best with any unprepared Magnacut but cannot guarantee the level of quality straightness that we hold to other blade steels. Peters’ Heat Treating has processed over 64,000 blades of Magnacut for over 100 different customers.
Hmm, @Evil D , I just read something similar in the comments section of a post by PM2OG
Bradford Knives is offering Guardian 3 and 3.5s in "High Hardness" Magnacut today vs their "standard" heat treatment (I can hear DeadBoxHero whispering in the background "Microstructure is what matters not hardness) - I'm curious, but I'm not much a fixed blade user.
Thanx much for sharing your story. First, I would like to say that Spyderco spent a great deal of time and effort to work with Magnacut processing, with both Larrin and Shawn. We think it's a great steel and have plans to use it in many models. I can't speak for other knife companies or custom makers. We were the first to bring it out and we have processing down.
We actually have a lot of it on hand and the only reason that we haven't had it out more has nothing to do with the steel itself or processing blades. We've been bottle-necked by some of our vendors waiting for other parts to the knives. It has been frustrating for sure, but you can expect many models to be coming out soon with Larrin's extraordinary steel.
Thanx much for sharing your story. First, I would like to say that Spyderco spent a great deal of time and effort to work with Magnacut processing, with both Larrin and Shawn. We think it's a great steel and have plans to use it in many models. I can't speak for other knife companies or custom makers. We were the first to bring it out and we have processing down.
We actually have a lot of it on hand and the only reason that we haven't had it out more has nothing to do with the steel itself or processing blades. We've been bottle-necked by some of our vendors waiting for other parts to the knives. It has been frustrating for sure, but you can expect many models to be coming out soon with Larrin's extraordinary steel.
sal
That's excellent news, thank you for taking the time to update everyone. I deal with ordering/vendors and such at work, I understand how many cogs are turning in that machine.
Last edited by Evil D on Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
In my use I have seen a significant increase in performance at higher hardness. The edge stability is increased and it is a breeze to bring back a very keen edge with a few passes on the Sharpmaker. And even at high hardness, it is still tougher than other stainless steels at lower hardness. I see Magnacut at being a dominant knife steel for years to come given its great mix of attributes, but hope that it is taken to higher hardness to exploit its full potential.
I live in Europe and I’m a little disappointed in the recent availability of Spyderco products. Since MagnaCut N5 was announced I have had no chance to get one because of the limited availability. I just want to buy a MC Spyderco (not the N5 specifically) and seems to be impossible to purchase a regular production MC Spyderco here. I can buy regular productions Leatherman, Buck, CRK (etc.) in MagnaCut with ease but not Spyderco, and this is disappointing.
I would rather buy a Spyderco knife instead of considering other options and I hope this availability trend will stop soon, I mean very soon.
