M4 Shaman Exclusive

[Sumdumguy]

They need to have a temporary limit of 1 per customer on these exclusives, that way the people who really want one have a shot...

Was thumbing through the classifieds over on another forum and saw a flipper selling 4 M4 Shamans @ $290ea

I don't usually care about flippers, but that guy is a tosser...

Hope his dog bites him.

(Apologies for the rant)

[SpyderSeth]

Is anyone mad at BHQ for making a profit? Or are we only mad at individual sellers trying to do the same?

[attila]

They need to have a temporary limit of 1 per customer on these exclusives, that way the people who really want one have a shot...

Was thumbing through the classifieds over on another forum and saw a flipper selling 4 M4 Shamans @ $290ea

I don't usually care about flippers, but that guy is a tosser...

Hope his dog bites him.

(Apologies for the rant)

This fella actually had an original price of $325 each. There were almost 10 disapproving responses that eventually got deleted before the price was lowered to $290.

Is anyone mad at BHQ for making a profit? Or are we only mad at individual sellers trying to do the same?

There's nothing wrong with BHQ making a profit; that's why they are in business. Gouging flippers, however, take away some peoples' chances at a decent price on popular models. That's why we don't like them. They do a disservice to the community.

[SpyderSeth]

Everyone had the same chance. You should be mad at BHQ for not ordering more and not limiting quantity.

[Sumdumguy]

Everyone had the same chance. You should be mad at BHQ for not ordering more and not limiting quantity.

No, I will blame the grubby little parasites who go in looking to make a quick buck.

You will never hear me complain about someone buying two and flipping one for a slight($20-$30) profit. Someone missed out on the knife, you have an extra one and you get paid a slight finders fee. Everyones happy.

$100 markup is gouging and those doing it should be ashamed(as should those paying it).

[SpyderSeth]

I guess we will have to disagree. To me it seems like BHQ and these "grubby little parasites" have the exact same business model, only BHQ can do it on a larger scale.

[steelcity16]

Everyone had the same chance. You should be mad at BHQ for not ordering more and not limiting quantity.

No, I will blame the grubby little parasites who go in looking to make a quick buck.

You will never hear me complain about someone buying two and flipping one for a slight($20-$30) profit. Someone missed out on the knife, you have an extra one and you get paid a slight finders fee. Everyones happy.

$100 markup is gouging and those doing it should be ashamed(as should those paying it).

This is still hypocritical. If there are 600 knives and the first 300 to click "complete order" each buy 2 with the intent of flipping one, that is still 300 people like me and you who have to pay a $60 mark up so someone else can make maybe $20 after fees, shipping, your time to list the item, pack it, drive it to the post office, etc. So you are cool with that? Paying $210 for a $150 knife so someone can make enough money to get dinner at Chick fil-a? I'm not. One per customer should be the limit. If you must have a backup, buy it on the secondary market. I doubt many people are really hoarding backups in a safe in case they lose or break a knife. Most of the people buying two are buying that "backup" to flip. Pretty soon the 5 minutes sellouts are going to be 5 second sellouts driven by bots ordering 10+ knives per scalper and unless you have a bot you are going to be paying 2x the retail price.

I was guilty in the past of buying a few multiples and ending up realizing there are so many models I like it was silly to have multiples of the same model. I'm back to buying one, and only the ones I REALLY want and plan on putting into my user rotation. I don't want a fellow Spydie forumite to have to pay a markup so I can break even on a knife I decided I don't need. The M4 Native is the only knife purchase I've made this year. I feel guilty about selling a few knives above retail last year but I was just trying to back to even on most. The fees and shipping and all of that really add up. I sold most of the knives at a loss after all was said and done.

[Tucson Tom]

Everyone had the same chance. You should be mad at BHQ for not ordering more and not limiting quantity.

I'm mad about the second, not so much about the first. I am all for a limit of 1 -- and I really doubt at the end of the day they would have been stuck with many knives.

It would be interesting what the data looks like. How many they sold of 1 (the good people), of 2, of 3 (the jerks), of 4 or more (****).

[steelcity16]

I guess we will have to disagree. To me it seems like BHQ and these "grubby little parasites" have the exact same business model, only BHQ can do it on a larger scale.

Being a retailer and a "grubby little parasite" are nowhere close to the same business model. One is providing a service to the community by investing tens of thousand of dollars (probably $100K+ in some cases) to bring a special and unique model to the community. The other is looking for a way to make a quick buck off the back of the true fans and is doing a terrible disservice to the community.

Let's just say there are exactly 600 people in the world who want an M4 Shaman to put in their user rotation. If "grubby little parasites" didn't exist and BHQ had exactly 600 to sell, these users could all buy their knife directly from BHQ for $199. When "grubby little parasites" come in to the picture looking to resell for $300+ so they can profit off the back of these users, the people who really want the knife to use are now forced to pay the price or go without.

What if someone decided to buy the entire run on their credit card and then make the market by releasing them on the secondary market one at a time for $499 each? Is that cool too? Just a good business model? :rolleyes:

[SpyderSeth]

How do you define "true fan"? And who is responsible for vetting me to make sure I am worthy?

It is BHQ that is causing the false rarity by ordering a low number and not setting the purchase limit to 1.

What if someone decided to buy the entire run on their credit card and then make the market by releasing them on the secondary market one at a time for $499 each? Is that cool too? Just a good business model?

If they are able to sell them all at $499 then it is a great business model. In this scenario BHQ becomes the wholesaler/distributor (which works well in many different industries) and the "grubby little parasites" become BHQ.

[ZrowsN1s]

I may have said something similar to this when a different model droped, but seems a good time to say it again.

I have no problems with companies making a profit, shops that regularly sell at msrp and above don't bother me. The high price keeps the knives available for people who really want them enough to pay for them. I have no problems with someone selling a rare knife for well over what they paid for it......

BUT.....

... it really bothers me when people buy a limited edition knife and turn around and sell it for a profit on the same day or even the same week.

Is that hypocritical of me? Maybe. From a business stand point though I think it's in Spyderco's and BHQs interest to limit flippers if they can. It creates resentment with the fans when they see the sold out knives instantly showing up on ebay.

The no limit policy was a mistake, if for no other reason than me being confident the knives would have sold out anyway. Look how fast they sold out at dlt. No one is mad at them. Bhq should take note.


.........

...
I think you're right Matt. I believe I saw a sighting of it that someone posted from BHQ's FB or Instagram page a couple weeks ago?

I saw it in the Spyderco Byte

[BornIn1500]

Is anyone mad at BHQ for making a profit? Or are we only mad at individual sellers trying to do the same?

You can't honestly be equating a business like BHQ to a greedy scalper. The only reason this sprint exists is BHQ forked over the cash to buy a special sprint run. All the scalpers are doing is buying them before YOU can just so it takes them off the market so they can charge an insane price. They literally did nothing else but yank the product out from under your feet.

The huge thing that you're missing is that BHQ made the investment to even create this model. The scalpers had nothing to do with that.

I do agree that BHQ is mostly to blame for this, though. Make the limit 1. But the only thing that will stop it is some kind of a boycott to hit them where it hurts and make them pay attention.

[bearfacedkiller]

I wish they had done a limit but we also have to realize that they had no way to be certain it was gonna sell like that.

The Military took a long time to sell out and I don't think that the satin Manix2 sold out lightning fast. Maybe sales of the base model Shaman have been low giving them reason to be unsure?

I think there should be a one per household limit for the first 24 hours and then open it up to no limit.

In the end they ponied up a lot if cash to make this happen so you do have to give them that.

[bearfacedkiller]

What models are left? ManixXL and all the Lil' Natives. Probably not the P'Kal. What about a fixed blade? Isn't the Waterway being made in Golden? Is there any chance of a Manix Backlock? I think that would sell well. If the Shaman taught us anything here it is that the very first sprint of a new model will sell.

[TkoK83Spy]

I agree, whenever someone says they bought 2 to "keep one in a safe" or "as a backup knife" I just roll my eyes...when talking about a sprint or exclusive. EVERYONE knows you're not using said knife sooooo hard that you need a backup. Keeping a knife in a safe is just plain dumb as well...what good is that?? You're not going to make some insane profit on the thing some day.

I DO love seeing someone buy 2, especially here on the forum...because they know other members may not have the opportunity to do so with their work/sleep schedule or whatever it may be and plan on selling it to a member before the person that missed out has to fork out all the extra money because of these low life flippers. THAT is what helps bring this community together.

[curlyhairedboy]

since this is a batch that BHQ ordered, they've already spent 6 figures making it happen.

I'm just glad the micarta/cruwear is supposed to be a normal spydie sprint. It'll make it easier to find.

I plan on buying 2 as I'm 99% certain that it's going to kick a good portion of my collection out.

[TkoK83Spy]

since this is a batch that BHQ ordered, they've already spent 6 figures making it happen.

I'm just glad the micarta/cruwear is supposed to be a normal spydie sprint. It'll make it easier to find.

I plan on buying 2 as I'm 99% certain that it's going to kick a good portion of my collection out.

Good for you if this becomes your grail knife! :cool: I'm still searching...

[Evil D]

Unfortunately I believe if it wasn't for flippers and heightened demand, many of these exclusives would never happen. It's all part of the system. Be ready and don't miss out and the flippers never effect you.

[Pelagic]

A limit of one seems ridiculous to me, and I'm not a collector. High-end knives are luxury items. This is not the same as someone buying all the water at Walmart days before a category 5 hurricane hits.

This is a (relatively) free market. You vote with your wallet. If you feel strongly about this, boycott BLADEHQ or contact them and express your concerns. They may change their policy.

Supply and demand. The great thing about a (relatively) free market is that no one is forcing you to buy anything. All transactions are agreed upon and consensual. The real issue, if I actually had to put my finger on one, would be the sheer number of knives available. Supply was severely limited, thus demand was high. The flippers take advantage of increased demand. And no, I'm not a flipper, nor am I defending flippers.

EVERYONE should have known this would sell out. The Shaman is an extremely popular model. And I'm not exactly talking about sales numbers. Anyone who has been paying attention has seen that a rather large number of people weren't happy with the price (including the large price hike shortly after its release) of the Shaman considering the steel it came with. LOTS of people have been expressing their desire for Shaman sprint runs. This should have been an easy prediction IMHO. A no-brainer.

Consider an extreme scenario, solely to highlight a concept. Spyderco decides to reveal a Military in CPM REX 121. But they only decide to make 5 of them. Shockingly, it's not enough to meet the demand. They sell out quickly. And I wouldn't be surprised at all to see one on ebay for $10,000. Is there any blame to be cast in this scenario? Subjective. In my opinion, no. No one is to blame. I would just see it as a bad decision (business—wise, not morally of course) by Spyderco as they drastically underestimated the demand for the knife. Spyderco didn't do anything wrong, they just missed out on a Golden (pun intended) opportunity.

In this case I do feel the number of knives manufactured wasn't high enough to meet demand, and the shortage was probably just due to a miscalculation in Spyderco's estimation department. Do I like or respect flippers? No, I don't. But flippers have no power to price gouge when supply comes at least somewhat close to meeting demand.

I am not criticizing Spyderco or pointing the finger at anyone. As I said, I blame no one for this. But I do think a lot more of these would've sold. Perhaps spyderco was playing it safe because there is a Shaman sprint on the horizon, and figured some people may hold out for that. Who knows. But if the upcoming sprint is in Micarta and cruwear (or Rex45, or k390), I hope they do multiple runs to increase supply.

[ABX2011]

I think they should have set a limit of 2 per person. They probably will for the DLC version.