Police XL Talk

[Snacktime]

I guess I am the only here who runs their spyderco lockbacks with enough pivot tension you can't flick them or let the blade drop shut. This closing thing was confusing me as it never donned on me that they are flickable.

[yablanowitz]

Nope, you are not alone. I've just seen enough posts by the fidgeteers to know what they're talking about.

[KeepCalm&Carrion]

I don't have a favorite regarding choil vs. handle-forward designs, but in this case I'd really like to see what Sal & Co. could do with a handle-forward Police XL.

My list of wants:

-bring that 4.5" edge as close to the scales as you can get it
-grind out a Boye dent (it's a small thing but the tip of my thumb appreciates the dent)
-offer a modest upgrade on the stainless
-make it in SE

I wouldn't be able to resist.

[vivi]

I guess I am the only here who runs their spyderco lockbacks with enough pivot tension you can't flick them or let the blade drop shut. This closing thing was confusing me as it never donned on me that they are flickable.

No I do the same thing. I tighten the pivot of every knife just past the point of preventing free swinging blades. Safer closing them that way IMO.

[Jeb]

I guess, I am the odd one here maybe lol. Now I like all my blades to literally swing if clutched. I just don't do the flipping of the blade. Opening or closing, I don't flip my knives.

[Wartstein]

I guess I am the only here who runs their spyderco lockbacks with enough pivot tension you can't flick them or let the blade drop shut. This closing thing was confusing me as it never donned on me that they are flickable.

Nope, you are not alone. I've just seen enough posts by the fidgeteers to know what they're talking about.

I am honestly not sure I fully understand..

- I personally DON`T use the "drop the blade on your forefinger method" with backlocks, but prefer other, imo better methods.

- But, that said: Closing a backlock just with the "drop on the forefinger..." method apparently seems to be the most popular, used by many (as far as I can recall also Sal) and really not just "fidgeteers"... and the blade does not need to be free dropping for that, I think many just give the knife a "shake" to create momentum for the blade to close

- I keep my backlock blades also NOT free dropping, but still can flick them open. I am not a "fidgeteer" at all, but just prefer flicking a knife open over slow rolling, cause for me the former is a bit quicker, more convenient and the knife remains a bit more secure in hand (I am aware that flicking open should lead to more wear on the lock interface, but so far I had no issues in that regard).
So a blade absolutely can be not free dropping but pretty "tight", but still can be flicked open. It is just about technique (and perhaps to a lesser degree finger strength).

[cabfrank]

My list of wants:

-bring that 4.5" edge as close to the scales as you can get it
-grind out a Boye dent (it's a small thing but the tip of my thumb appreciates the dent)
-offer a modest upgrade on the stainless
-make it in SE

I really like all these ideas.

[ZrowsN1s]

I definitely thumb 'marble flick' all my Spydies open. It's not a fidget thing at all. For me it's the fastest way. As quick as pushing the open button on an auto. Normal opening is just a little slower and requires me to adjust my grip a little more.

Pivot tension, I go as tight as possible to minimize side to side blade play, where it doesn't fall freely when the lock is pressed, but a slight flick of the wrist will let it swing down to my finger at half stop. Also for speed and ease of closing. I've tried closing other ways and they really don't work for me as well.

I like high wear resistance. I'm hoping for K390 or S90V, PE of course. I have a SE K390 Police4, it's got it's applications, but not something I edc.

[Wartstein]

I definitely thumb 'marble flick' all my Spydies open. It's not a fidget thing at all. For me it's the fastest way. As quick as pushing the open button on an auto. Normal opening is just a little slower and requires me to adjust my grip a little more.
...

So much this, agree on all points!

Some here seem to perceive flicking open a folder as only "fidgeting" (which it CAN be when done multiple times in a row without any purpose).

To me though it is just the quickest, most convenient and most secure opening method ("most secure", cause as you say it requires the least grip adjustment and the "force" needed pushes the knife mostly INTO the palm)

[Snacktime]

So much this, agree on all points!

Some here seem to perceive flicking open a folder as only "fidgeting" (which it CAN be when done multiple times in a row without any purpose).

To me though it is just the quickest, most convenient and most secure opening method ("most secure", cause as you say it requires the least grip adjustment and the "force" needed pushes the knife mostly INTO the palm)

I love fidgety knives! I just tend to carry lockbacks when going to work so I don't fidget with them. I can sit and play with a compression lock knife for hours and my wife no longer bugs me about it.

Onto constructive things can we keep this around a .12 or 3mm thickness? I feel like the police hits blade thickness to width pretty good! With age I have gotten better at miss using a screwdriver vs my pocket knife as a pry bar.

I actually have been buying off blade thickness more than steel makeup lately. Especially satisfied with .1" or 2.5mm knife that I bought recently. Just don't think I want something that slicey over 3.5".

[Kleon]

I would vote for a handle forward design on this 5” blade design as long as it fits within the police gestalt. I carried the og gin1 serrated for several years as my primary accompanied by a serrated copilot. My 440v c36gse Millie finally took over for on duty carry and stayed there until supplanted by the s90v/cf Millie which remained until retirement first one anyhow…

[vivi]

I'm really curious to see what Sal has in mind.

I'm picturing an FRN Police 4 stretched out a bit with the choil removed, so the handle shape is a little closer to the original Police. Similar handle and blade thickness....

Probably VG10 for an initial run to keep the price down on a very niche offering. Maybe some edge holding monster to drum up hype like K390 did for the Police 4 first run?

[KeepCalm&Carrion]

The more I think about it the more I think I'd prefer the choil. Truly though, as long as there's a stainless SE version, I'm in either way.

[vivi]

The more I think about it the more I think I'd prefer the choil. Truly though, as long as there's a stainless SE version, I'm in either way.

I use choils more on larger knives than smaller knives so I actually agree. But no choil seemed more popular so far.

I could go either way on a hypothetical Police XL.

[CDEP]

The more I think about it the more I think I'd prefer the choil. Truly though, as long as there's a stainless SE version, I'm in either way.

I use choils more on larger knives than smaller knives so I actually agree. But no choil seemed more popular so far.

I could go either way on a hypothetical Police XL.

I agree, but it seems like it would make the most sense for it to be no choil if it is a Police XL, and yes choil if it is a Police 4 XL. I'd carry the lighter weight P4 XL more, so I guess I'd lean that way, but I'm intrigued enough now to probably grab either.

[vivi]

that makes sense.

I'm down either way. Police XL, Police 4 XL.....I just want something larger like my catcherman but geared more towards edc than a niche use like folding filet knife.

catcherman is a great purpose designed knife but I just want a general utility extra large Spyderco.

The current XL line-up just feels like regular sized pocket knives to me.

Manix XL, Stretch XL....those are the same length as Enduras / Pacific Salts, which are literally the smallest models in my carry rotation.

Police feels perfectly sized for me, but sometimes a slightly larger knife is more useful.

[aicolainen]

It’s funny how so many topics turn into discussions on how we open and close our knives, and subjective opinions on safety.

I also have my preferences, which again is closely linked to why I’ve come to prefer backlocks over all others… BUT I’m not dead set in one way or the other. Variety is the spice of life. Different is good in its own right.

While a Police XL would probably be a fantastic knife, and a safe choice for Spyderco, if it just kept all the features of the Police 4 except longer. My curiosity is much more excited with the idea of trying out something new.
For me, as someone with medium hands (at best) big size is all about big edge. The added handle length on a big knife is just wasted pocket space that I sacrifice for more edge. So if a handle forward approach will result in even a marginally longer edge, I’m all for it. But my interest in handle forward is just as much for variety. Almost every other Spyderco I own has a choil, so I’d want to try a no choil PXL even if the edge length would end up exactly the same.

While there is definitively something to be said for backlocks with a choil or pronounced ricasso, that handles similarly and can be switched between without much thought, I also enjoy exploring knives that handles differently - figuring out the best way to operate it one handed and refining my technique. Both good, just different - as a wise person once said.
And if I end up having some safety concerns with the PXL when and if it’s released, I have plenty of options to fall back on in situations where ultimate safety has more priority than other features. Just as I do with the knives I already own.

Even though I’m ultimately fine with both options, I have to underline that in the case of a choil, not all of them are created equal, and I’d be more finer with a choil that’s subtle and don’t extend too far into the blade. And maybe not fine at all if the choil gets too excessive and eats up too much edge. To be a bit more specific, I much prefer how the choil is implemented on the Stretch 1 compared to the Native Chief.

[derangedhermit]

I can think about this choil / no choil and handle forward in another way, separating the two things. All the designs with an index finger choil (the majority of Spyderco folding designs, I guess) would be more comfortable (to me, anyway) in use if the scales extended forward, matching the blade part of the choil and part way up any thumb ramp.

So there could be a discussion about which knives *with choils* might be interesting in a handle-forward design. For example, I think the Police 4 would not be ideal because of the blade width would make the handle wide at that end, and the additional closed length would be undesirable, at least to some. OTOH, the Native Chief, and even more the Native, would maybe benefit from extending the scales onto the unsharpened blade, following the blade profile. Only the scales would need to be changed.

I have not thought about how such a scale change would affect opening and closing. Maybe I'll get some sheet material and look for a suitable Spyderco test subject in my (small) collection - something easy to make homemade scales for.

[sal]

Please keep in mind that if we use a mid-back-lock, then the "kick" has to land on the pivot for the lock, otherwise the blade edge will hit the spring holder. That's why there is a longer ricasso on models like the Endura. I have "removed" the long ricasso by either turning it into a finger-choil, so the front of the finger-choil becomes the "kick" or moving the "Handle forward" to the "kick", so the edge is close to the grip in either case. (Finger-choil or handle forward.

sal
______________________________________________________________________________________

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to humankind".

[CDEP]

Please keep in mind that if we use a mid-back-lock, then the "kick" has to land on the pivot for the lock, otherwise the blade edge will hit the spring holder. That's why there is a longer ricasso on models like the Endura. I have "removed" the long ricasso by either turning it into a finger-choil, so the front of the finger-choil becomes the "kick" or moving the "Handle forward" to the "kick", so the edge is close to the grip in either case. (Finger-choil or handle forward.

sal
______________________________________________________________________________________

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to humankind".

Thanks, Sal. The Endura example helps visualize the issue.

So, the folks who want max cutting edge would want the XL to be based on the P4 (3.97" edge) rather than the P2 (3.75" edge), and the yes/no choil issue would not impact edge length in a meaningful way. We'd basically be talking about a similar bump up as on the Stretch 2/Stretch 2 XL. Losing the choil gains no edge so best to keep it.

Any change to the layout of the handle or the lock mechanism would really be a Police 5.

So isn't the issue whether people want a P4 XL or a new variant P5?