Why Did The Jumpers Fail?

[Snacktime]

Can you elaborate on this a bit?

I carried an Endura for years. When I learned about the knife laws here in CO (max 3.5" for concealed), I ground the blade down to comply.

Are you saying that in a court of law, that 'now-less-than-3.5" knife' would be treated legally as an 'over-3.5" knife' due to the way the manufacturer made it or described it? Is that a law-enforcement perspective, or something that has been handed down to you as knowledge from law enforcement? I suppose every state is different, but I've been grinding down knives now for years to keep them 'legal' but I suppose it would be important to know if that would be all for nothing in a court of law.

Thanks for sharing any other thoughts you may have.

I work in the regulations and compliance so it boils down to prior knowledge. If you knowingly bought something that isn't compliant you have zero defense. Pretty easy to prove these days with the requirements to train people on product safety data sheets and that modified tools are not acceptable. In a federal building you are getting searched and charged, just nature of the beast. Since I am working you just play by the rules. Let's not get started on lasers in flashlights lol.

[Red Leader]

Can you elaborate on this a bit?

I carried an Endura for years. When I learned about the knife laws here in CO (max 3.5" for concealed), I ground the blade down to comply.

Are you saying that in a court of law, that 'now-less-than-3.5" knife' would be treated legally as an 'over-3.5" knife' due to the way the manufacturer made it or described it? Is that a law-enforcement perspective, or something that has been handed down to you as knowledge from law enforcement? I suppose every state is different, but I've been grinding down knives now for years to keep them 'legal' but I suppose it would be important to know if that would be all for nothing in a court of law.

Thanks for sharing any other thoughts you may have.

I work in the regulations and compliance so it boils down to prior knowledge. If you knowingly bought something that isn't compliant you have zero defense. Pretty easy to prove these days with the requirements to train people on product safety data sheets and that modified tools are not acceptable. In a federal building you are getting searched and charged, just nature of the beast. Since I am working you just play by the rules. Let's not get started on lasers in flashlights lol.

I appreciate your response!

Hmmmmm! Well, makes me slightly more appreciative of that 3.48" blade on the Stretch 2...

[R100]

I love my K390 Leafjumper. It by far has the best FRN kickback action of any Spyderco. Only the G10 Stretch XL Cruwear is close. My Stretch 2 K390 is absolutely awful by comparison (won’t even snap shut and is difficult to shake closed one handed… can’t do it without blade play and also has lock rock.) Not even the CF S90V Native 5 has an action as nice as the Leafjumper. I love it, and am shocked it didn’t sell well enough, especially in K390.

There are however 2 things I wish were improved if they re-release something in this choiless format. Fix the shape when closed so that it doesn’t have a bare open spine when shut. The Stretch and Native don’t have this issue… but it’s a minor aesthetic thing. The real issue for me is the palm swell. It needs to be reshaped. I think a shallower swoop near the front of the handle and less of a swell bulge would make the handle more comfortable, especially since there’s no “choil grip” position.

Also, regarding the Boye dent. On my Stretch 2, the dent actually lines up to almost disengage the lock. There’s no such issue at all on the Leafjumper or the Native 5, neither of which have the Boye dent. I think overall I like the Stretch 2 shape of blade and handle better than the Leafjumper, but the action and fit and finish are just miles and miles better than the FRN Stretch 2. If we don’t get a return for the Leafjumper, I would like to see some CQI put into the stretch to make the action smooth and less instance lock rock.

There is quite a bit of variation in fit and finish of Seki lockbacks. In this case you were just unlucky with your Stretch 2 K390. It's the opposite for me because mine is a near perfect example with better action and lockup than my 2 K390 Leafjumpers (PE and SE) which are also very good. On the other hand the first Endela I bought is a complete dog with terrible lock rock. I was quite prejudiced against this model until I bought the Cruwear version and got a good one. I have learned over the years that it is a bit of a gamble with Seki and you can get a good or bad version of any model.

In my experience the Golden models are tighter but not not as smooth.

Dan

[Woodpuppy]

I’m guilty of waiting for a more interesting combo than black scales + VG10 or s30v. To me the choil makes the most sense when it’s used on a rather compact knife so one can get a full grip using the choil, like on the Urban. Even so I mostly use a pinch grip on most knives.

I really like the GB2 I recently got on DQ pricing. It’s got a very short distance between grip and edge, and no kick. I wish the opening hole weren’t obstructed by the bump in the handle, but otherwise it’s a really good knife, and fit and finish is probably the best of any Spyderco I’ve ever had.

I think a bright color handle and MagnaCut might have made a better intro model. I like bright handles on outdoor tools, and as much as I love M4, it’ll rust/pit on you in no time.

As to the discussion about blade/handle ratio, well I like a full handle regardless of blade length. Especially on an outdoor tool. I am very curious about the Jumpers still, and may get one to try.

Can you elaborate on this a bit?

I carried an Endura for years. When I learned about the knife laws here in CO (max 3.5" for concealed), I ground the blade down to comply.

Are you saying that in a court of law, that 'now-less-than-3.5" knife' would be treated legally as an 'over-3.5" knife' due to the way the manufacturer made it or described it? Is that a law-enforcement perspective, or something that has been handed down to you as knowledge from law enforcement? I suppose every state is different, but I've been grinding down knives now for years to keep them 'legal' but I suppose it would be important to know if that would be all for nothing in a court of law.

Thanks for sharing any other thoughts you may have.

I work in the regulations and compliance so it boils down to prior knowledge. If you knowingly bought something that isn't compliant you have zero defense. Pretty easy to prove these days with the requirements to train people on product safety data sheets and that modified tools are not acceptable. In a federal building you are getting searched and charged, just nature of the beast. Since I am working you just play by the rules. Let's not get started on lasers in flashlights lol.

If I ever find myself in any federal building besides the PO something in my life has gone very sideways. I certainly wouldn’t work in one. When I do get called for jury duty, knives just stay in the truck. Luckily here in Florida the limit is 4”.

A knife blade ground down to less than max legal length must be legal to own/possess/carry at the time of discovery/seizure; it is what it is, not what it was. Losing your property or being charged for carrying a knife over the legal limit would be a gross misapplication of law. Not that I’m one to ever confuse legal with just or right…

[Meadowlark]

Dumb question, did the rock jumper (wharncliffe) come in k390 SE like the lead jumper did?

[dsvirsky]

Dumb question, did the rock jumper (wharncliffe) come in k390 SE like the lead jumper did?

No. Some of us had been hoping, but no.

[Meadowlark]

Dumb question, did the rock jumper (wharncliffe) come in k390 SE like the lead jumper did?

No. Some of us had been hoping, but no.

That's unfortunate. So the only rock jumper commercially available was the vg-10 black frn with either pe or se?

[zhyla]

KnifeCenter still has the K390 LeafJumpers for $92. I just ordered one. I’m on the least interested end of the fancy steel spectrum but am a little curious whether a high edge retention steel will be a noticeable improvement in my day to day. And I’m bored and the Mantra 4 I preordered apparently is vaporware

[Catchadroppingknife]

Right - Rockjumpers only came in VG10, black FRN etc...

And I think they are all great!

[Woodpuppy]

I realized I only have a Dragonfly and a Manbug in VG-10, and neither are EDCs. I’ve cleaned up one ZWEAR two M4 knives today and am presently annoyed at corrosion. So I ordered a Leafjumper in VG10 to scratch the itch.

[sal]

Actually. I've learned quite a bit from this thread. Thanx. We'll be doing the test again, but with a more niche model size. The new test is with a 5.0" blade length Police Model. Both variations are planned to come out at the same time. One has a finger choil and the other has a handle forward. Other than that, they are both almost the same.

I'm hoping that there will be good comparisons and thought.

sal

[WilliamMunny]

Actually. I've learned quite a bit from this thread. Thanx. We'll be doing the test again, but with a more niche model size. The new test is with a 5.0" blade length Police Model. Both variations are planned to come out at the same time. One has a finger choil and the other has a handle forward. Other than that, they are both almost the same.

I'm hoping that there will be good comparisons and thought.

sal

Excited to see those, sound like they will be great.

[Steeltoez83]

The LJ has been a favorite of mine for awhile. Definitely on board for the 5 inch variant.

[zhyla]

I will never sell my stainless Police. But I also will never wish for a longer version of it. 5” yikes.

[Meadowlark]

Actually. I've learned quite a bit from this thread. Thanx. We'll be doing the test again, but with a more niche model size. The new test is with a 5.0" blade length Police Model. Both variations are planned to come out at the same time. One has a finger choil and the other has a handle forward. Other than that, they are both almost the same.

I'm hoping that there will be good comparisons and thought.

sal

Like the jumpers these will also come as frn backlocks, right?

Really interesting, sounds like @vivi wish is coming true.

[derangedhermit]

I bought, but only briefly used, a Jumper. The thumb ramp was much too steep for me, although I guess it is necessary with a medium-size knife with a narrower (less than tall) grip and large opening hole.

I've learned I prefer knives where that angle / curve is lower, even if it means the knife overall is taller. The smooth curve from tip to butt of knives like the Native series, Shaman, Bodacious are my favorites because the shape doesn't bias use towards (or away from) particular grips. I'd put the Yojumbo in that category too.

[Wartstein]

Actually. I've learned quite a bit from this thread. Thanx. We'll be doing the test again, but with a more niche model size. The new test is with a 5.0" blade length Police Model. Both variations are planned to come out at the same time. One has a finger choil and the other has a handle forward. Other than that, they are both almost the same.

I'm hoping that there will be good comparisons and thought.

sal

This will be interesting to see and find out indeed (though I am a bit afraid there might not be too many who'll buy a 5" blade folder...?)

Honestly:
- If with this "Police XL" the version with choil will offer about the same amount of actual cutting edge as the handle forward version (which could be, since with handle forward the choil area is basically "just" covered by a longer handle...?)...
...I' d probably go with the choil version:
Why? Cause in a folder that large there will still be tons of grip area behind the choil anyway, and the choil should lock the finger in nicely and offer a "rear guard" to push back against when cutting .

[kennethsime]

Carried my RockJumper for a few days last week - first time in some time. I love the action and the function. I bought it on a whim to show some support for the concept (and my hometown's local knife store).

Would probably carry it more with a Lynch clip.

[Ramonade]

This will be interesting to see and find out indeed (though I am a bit afraid there might not be too many who'll buy a 5" blade folder...?)
[...]

In my "knife" friend group, most of the mlove blade length or 4" and over. And we're in France, I'm sure the US (and other less restricted countries) will have more than enough people that welcome a 5" Police with open arms !

But you're right, as Sal said it's still niche, the size of the niche can't be determined unless they test.

I'm totally in for a handle forward version. I kinda skipped the Jumpers because they answered no "need" for me back then. I might still score a leafjumper though, having a handle forward backlock is something I'd like, and I can't make that (yet)

[Actinolite]

In my "knife" friend group, most of the mlove blade length or 4" and over. And we're in France, I'm sure the US (and other less restricted countries) will have more than enough people that welcome a 5" Police with open arms !

But you're right, as Sal said it's still niche, the size of the niche can't be determined unless they test.

I'm totally in for a handle forward version. I kinda skipped the Jumpers because they answered no "need" for me back then. I might still score a leafjumper though, having a handle forward backlock is something I'd like, and I can't make that (yet)

"Less restrictive". Well, that doesn't cover my state. I can own a 5-inch folder, but I cannot carry any blade hidden ("in a pocket") that is over 3.5 inches. This is why I opt for fixed blades over 3.5 inches, because they are easy to carry openly in sheaths, and THAT IS legal here. But, pity the folks in Chicago...2.5 inches max is the legal limit.