Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

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James Y
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#141

Post by James Y »

Naperville wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:52 pm
There is no need to go quietly in to the good night! You attacker has the same targets on them that you have on you.

There are FREE apps for cell phones and FREE anatomy portals on YouTube that I watch for knife targeting.

Go to the Apple or Google Play Store for cellular apps and download the Grays Anatomy App. FREE

Go to Google Images and download anatomy and major blood vessel images to your desktop computer. FREE

Once you know these targets a pocket knife with the right tip, and 4 inch blade, can hit most of them.

EDIT - NOTE
I have updated my Gab Group "Edged Weapons and Applications" with links to anatomy charts.
https://gab.com/groups/4318

Thank you for sharing.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#142

Post by The Mastiff »

I’ve also heard of numerous instances where people were shot fatally, but still continued to run and/or fight for various amounts of time, seemingly unaffected, before succumbing to their wounds. There was an old book written by Massad Ayoob ( IIRC, the title was either ‘In The Gravest Extreme’ or ‘The Truth About Self-Protection’) that documented many such cases.

Once, MANY years ago, on the old show COPS, they showed a dead guy who had been shot in a fight. The shooter had used a 22 pistol. The victim’s friend told the cops that the victim had been chasing after the shooter, after being shot once in the torso, and had yelled, “You can’t kill me with a *bleeping* little 22.” Then right in the middle of chasing the guy, he’d just collapsed. He was shown lying there dead with his eyes wide open. I doubt they would ever air that again, at least not without tiling out the face/body.
I've never read his book but I'm sure it wouldn't take long to find those instances to publish . They are fairly common. I've seen a few myself including one guy that we ( base MP's at Ft Carson) stopped for what we thought was drunk or distracted driving that turned out to be a guy who had been shot twice in the head and was driving himself to the hospital. Humans can be amazingly resilient or they can drop dead from shock in a situation they should normally survive. In those situations first responders might see anything. It's one of the reasons we respect that field of work.

I never watch shows that have cops, corrections or EMT type stuff now. I just don't want to see it anymore. Give me something completely boring anytime. Nothing that intends to provoke strong emotions. I even change the channel now when they show those commercials with suffering dogs and violin music to try to guilt watchers into sending money. I'm retired! :)
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#143

Post by Naperville »

The Mastiff wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:45 pm
...
I never watch shows that have cops, corrections or EMT type stuff now. I just don't want to see it anymore. Give me something completely boring anytime. Nothing that intends to provoke strong emotions. I even change the channel now when they show those commercials with suffering dogs and violin music to try to guilt watchers into sending money. I'm retired! :)
My brother who had been a Chicago police officer for more than 26 years has seen everything. He finalized his retirement with the Department last month and is officially retired in a couple more months. Given everything that cops are going through nationwide he did not want to remain on the streets.
I Support: Navy SEAL Foundation, SEAL Jason Redman; America’s Warrior Partnership; Second Amendment Foundation(SAF); Gun Owners of America(GOA); Firearms Policy Coalition(FPC); Knife Rights; The Dog Aging Institute; Longevity Biotech Fellowship; https://andrewsteele.co.uk/ageless/how-you-can-help/
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#144

Post by VashHash »

James Y wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:07 am
VashHash wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:28 pm
Some people even believe they would see a knife to begin with.

Sorry, I missed your post before. Yes, you’re right.

Jim
It's a pretty common misconception that people will show you weapons before using them. Surely it does happen as vivi pointed out but I believe it is the exception not the rule. In a self defense situation I would say you should always be fighting for your life because anything else would put you at a great disadvantage. Fighting for anything less than your life is pointless. Arguments and words aren't worth anything.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#145

Post by The Mastiff »

It's a pretty common misconception that people will show you weapons before using them. Surely it does happen as vivi pointed out but I believe it is the exception not the rule. In a self defense situation I would say you should always be fighting for your life because anything else would put you at a great disadvantage. Fighting for anything less than your life is pointless. Arguments and words aren't worth anything.
Yeah, I can't put it any better. As far as showing a weapon? Not if it can be helped. I won't even show myself if at all possible. :D Ambushes are an art form in the army. I learned many lessons there that all can't be applied but the general ideas translate somewhat. Being invisible is a wonderful thing when it can be done. All kinds of advantages. If I have to be seen at the very least I want my intentions to be unavailable when possible.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#146

Post by James Y »

Most people will never see a bladed weapon.

In general, I’ve always been pretty good at blending in and avoiding/staying away from trouble, especially as I’ve gotten older. I also don’t ‘stand out’. Meaning, when out in public, there’s really nothing about me that draws people’s attention one way or the other.

Back when I was pursuing acting, the acting coach had us get up one at a time in front of the class, and the other students would volunteer their thoughts on that person’s personality traits, based on their impressions of that person. NONE of the people who volunteered their thoughts on me guessed anything close to the real me. In fact, their guesses on me were the farthest off of anyone else in the class. And I was secretly happy about it. Because all of their guesses underestimated who I am (not necessarily insultingly). I’m certain that most other people who are superficially acquainted with me also have similar inaccurate impressions.

IMO, it pays to not stand out; to fly under the radar as much as possible, and to have an awareness of the environment. Those are WAY more important than which martial art(s) you may have studied, or how much weight you can lift. Whether ‘standing out’ means being flamboyant, extravagant, cocky, aggressive, timid, nervous, oblivious, etc., etc.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#147

Post by VashHash »

I've never been in a fight after Jr high and I'm pretty proud about that. I've always found a way to talk myself out of any altercation since. Maybe it's luck or maybe it's skill but I'll take it either way. As the old saying goes though. "Better to have and not need, than need and not have".
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#148

Post by The Mastiff »

Jim, you reveal a little of your life here and there. Most actors I know are pretty skilled at the subjects needed to pull off the things you describe. I have/had a few actors and singers in the family and it always surprised me not only how much they can change the way others see and hear them as well as stuff like turning their charisma off and on which from my perspective was mostly used schmoozing others some of whom seemed to want to just be around them at times. :o
I've never been in a fight after Jr high and I'm pretty proud about that. I've always found a way to talk myself out of any altercation since. Maybe it's luck or maybe it's skill but I'll take it either way. As the old saying goes though. "Better to have and not need, than need and not have".
I've been in without exaggeration several hundred uses of force over my career in different jobs but as a civilian I haven't been in any fights since I was pretty young. I would defend myself but fighting is out. If self defense/Defense Of Others isn't needed then there is pretty much nothing worth all the potential problems that go along with it. I typically won't even use harsh language in my dealings with others.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#149

Post by James Y »

The Mastiff wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:33 pm
Jim, you reveal a little of your life here and there. Most actors I know are pretty skilled at the subjects needed to pull off the things you describe. I have/had a few actors and singers in the family and it always surprised me not only how much they can change the way others see and hear them as well as stuff like turning their charisma off and on which from my perspective was mostly used schmoozing others some of whom seemed to want to just be around them at times. :o

Joe, I would be lying if I said that my acting, at its best, was ever anything more than fair. And that’s being generous. I was never really happy with my acting ability. By ‘acting’, I mean acting from a script. An actor has to get into the character/situation and ‘feel that the fictional situation is real.’ I was usually too much in my own head. Most others didn’t see any problems with it. Even one well-known agent whom I auditioned in front of at an agent showcase said my audition was “not bad; not great, but not bad.” Note: This agent has no inhibitions against telling an actor if she thinks their audition sucks, to their face, and in front of everybody else in the room.

But I was never happy with my own acting; every time our acting class would view the video playbacks of our acting on a big screen at the end of class, I would cringe in my seat. Plus, I have kind of a low voice, and once in a while my S’s sound like SH’s (something I hadn’t noticed before acting and watching all the playbacks).

I’m MUCH better at manipulating the impressions I give off to others in real life. :)

Back on topic, I stayed out of trouble pretty well, but regretfully, there were a few stupid, avoidable fights I got into in my 20s. Only a few. Not counting the one I got into with a psychotic training partner I mentioned several posts back, which happened in my early 30s. They had been avoidable, but I chose not to avoid those particular ones. Luckily, things went my way. But I would do things differently now.

I will point out there is a big difference between “getting into fights” (meaning avoidable ‘mutual combat’ ego contests) and legitimate self-defense situations. In January 1985, at age 21, during my first week living in Taiwan, some gangsters attempted to kidnap me. One man mistook me for a Singaporean, and even said, “Hey, Singapore! I’m talking to you, Singapore!” in Mandarin when addressing me. Then two other men rushed up behind me to my right. I fought off all three of them; it took about 15 or 20 seconds of hard fighting, then someone whistled at them, and they jumped into a big, black car that had been waiting for them.

Everything happened quickly. I never said a word. No amount of talking would have gotten me out of that situation. And I couldn’t have outrun them; there were three of them and one of me. Those are only some of the big differences between a “fight” and a predatory criminal attack. Luckily, no weapons were involved. But weapons or not, they weren’t getting me into that car. I got the impression they were used to just overpowering their victims, and hadn’t expected me to fight back so hard. But they were fighting to snatch a victim; I was fighting for my life. About 20 minutes afterwards, back at the place I was staying, I got a mild case of “the shakes,” the only time I’ve ever experienced that.

Months later, I was reading a Taiwanese English-language newspaper, and an article mentioned that Triad (Chinese organized crime) organizations in Taiwan had been targeting university students from Singapore (known to be from rich families) and demanding ransom. Then they killed the hostages anyway, even if the ransom was paid. So I had literally saved my own life that time. I left Taiwan at age 29, but nothing like that ever happened to me again.

I mention this because many people, especially many martial artists and sport combat athletes, seem to confuse getting into ‘mutual combat’ fights, and sudden situations involving predatory criminal attacks, when it comes to self-defense situations.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#150

Post by The Mastiff »

No amount of talking would have gotten me out of that situation.


You being aware of that might have helped save your life that day. I guess they figured they would have had to kill you just to capture you. That changed the equation to one that was dangerous to them and probably not worth the risks they took. It was a very dangerous situation for you and them really. It must have been working well enough for them in the past or they wouldn't have continued the kidnapping schemes. It might have worked in your favor that they were practiced and salty. If they were scared first timers they probably couldn't have kept their reasoning wits about them to make the decision that you weren't the simple student/prey they thought and there is a good chance the most scared of them would have made a bad decision to shoot or stab you instead of withdrawing to find an easier target. You had nothing to lose by going all out . I'd bet they remembered you for a long time. :)
I mention this because many people, especially many martial artists and sport combat athletes, seem to confuse getting into ‘mutual combat’ fights, and sudden situations involving predatory criminal attacks, when it comes to self-defense situations.
Yeah, I've even seen that in articles by "experts". Anyways, I'm too old for either now. :) I take being a boring person to new levels and am happy doing so. :D When I leave a room now I want people to question if there was even anyone there at all . ;)
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#151

Post by James Y »

The Mastiff wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:02 pm
No amount of talking would have gotten me out of that situation.


You being aware of that might have helped save your life that day. I guess they figured they would have had to kill you just to capture you. That changed the equation to one that was dangerous to them and probably not worth the risks they took. It was a very dangerous situation for you and them really. It must have been working well enough for them in the past or they wouldn't have continued the kidnapping schemes. It might have worked in your favor that they were practiced and salty. If they were scared first timers they probably couldn't have kept their reasoning wits about them to make the decision that you weren't the simple student/prey they thought and there is a good chance the most scared of them would have made a bad decision to shoot or stab you instead of withdrawing to find an easier target. You had nothing to lose by going all out . I'd bet they remembered you for a long time. :)
I mention this because many people, especially many martial artists and sport combat athletes, seem to confuse getting into ‘mutual combat’ fights, and sudden situations involving predatory criminal attacks, when it comes to self-defense situations.
Yeah, I've even seen that in articles by "experts". Anyways, I'm too old for either now. :) I take being a boring person to new levels and am happy doing so. :D When I leave a room now I want people to question if there was even anyone there at all . ;)

You’re right, Joe, on every point. One of the factors on my side was that it happened during daylight, at around rush hour time, right next to an outdoor market I was walking past. After the incident, a shopkeeper came over, eyes wide, and asked if I was alright. Then he said (in Mandarin), “Those are bad people! VERY BAD people.” I’m certain the fact that there were so many potential witnesses made it clear that no weapons were to be used. The first guy who had spoken to me looked to be maybe early 30s, about my height (5’ 9”), but stockier, with a military haircut and a brown leather jacket. He also yelled “Kan!”, a Hokkien/Taiwanese expletive you can Google if you’re interested, as he got into the car. My recollection of the other two, as well as the guy waiting by the open rear door of the car, is unclear. I was weirdly calm during the entire incident, as well as during the walk back to my place with my head on a swivel. But as I mentioned, I got the shakes later. For months after, I avoided that part of town, and was slightly paranoid I’d see them again, or worse, they’d spot me. It never happened. I wonder if they suffered any consequences for their failure (I hope so). Or maybe they didn’t even tell their superiors.

As far as going unnoticed in a room, most of the time nowadays, I don’t even need to try; it just seems to happen anyway. :p

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#152

Post by VashHash »

I try to go unnoticed but unfortunately a certain celebrity has adopted my look. I say this because I looked this way before he was known. I just doubt anyone tells him he looks like me. I just hope he shaves his face soon and everyone forgets about it. Luckily I can wear a mask in most places so it doesn't happen as often. I like the anonymity.

Matter of fact it almost caused an altercation a few years ago at a hotel. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to drink in public places.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#153

Post by James Y »

VashHash wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:27 am
I try to go unnoticed but unfortunately a certain celebrity has adopted my look. I say this because I looked this way before he was known. I just doubt anyone tells him he looks like me. I just hope he shaves his face soon and everyone forgets about it. Luckily I can wear a mask in most places so it doesn't happen as often. I like the anonymity.

Matter of fact it almost caused an altercation a few years ago at a hotel. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to drink in public places.


It’s ridiculous for someone to attack you for looking like a celebrity, or even for thinking you WERE that celebrity. Unfortunately, some people are just plain stupid; the drinking only removes their filters that keep them from expressing who they really are.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#154

Post by James Y »

Finger Safety.

I’ve noticed in some videos on YouTube posted by ‘reality self-defense’ instructors that some of them are very careless when it comes to finger safety. For example, I’ve seen videos where the instructor demonstrates edge-of-hand chops to the throat, with their thumb and fingers all fully-extended and splayed apart. I don’t know if this is done for dramatic effect; if they were taught that way and believe it’s more effective; or if it’s a bad habit and they’re simply not aware they’re doing it. At least one guy WAS aware, and claimed it made his version “different from (and presumably more effective than) a Karate chop.”

Nonsense. What some people don’t realize is that the fingers are among the vulnerable parts of the body that can be injured in a violent struggle. They could snag on an attacker’s clothing or body part. They can hit something, or be hit, at a wrong angle. They can also be grabbed and bent/twisted by an opponent. Not only that, but fully straightening and splaying the fingers does NOT improve the speed, power, or efficacy of an edge-of-hand strike, or any other type of open-hand blow. Quite the contrary, in fact. Reducing the vulnerability of one’s hands, while increasing their effectiveness in striking with them, is a discipline unto itself that must be thoroughly ingrained through proper training.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#155

Post by VashHash »

I would hope before anyone tries to strike with their fingers they would condition them.
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#156

Post by James Y »

VashHash wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:35 pm
I would hope before anyone tries to strike with their fingers they would condition them.

I agree.

But even if the strike isn’t with the fingers, like an edge-of-hand chop, proper positioning of the fingers is still extremely important. Fingers can easily become injured if they’re fully-extended and splayed apart, like the way some ‘reality self-defense’ instructors advocate doing it. Proper positioning also streamlines the hand and makes the strike more efficient and effective. There are literally zero advantages to sloppy hand/finger positioning.

As far as conditioning the fingers for striking, one should approach it with care and have proper supervision. Especially with the fingertips. Over-stimulation of the fingertips through striking (especially hard, solid objects) can adversely affect one’s eyesight. If this sounds like BS, it’s not. It’s never happened to me (the finger conditioning I do is heavy grip training), but I’m aware of at least two people who went overboard with fingertip strike conditioning and ruined their eyesight.

One of which I knew, and I even saw him doing it to himself. This guy made up his own ‘Iron Palm’ conditioning routine and would slap and poke the seat of a heavy wooden stool, alternating hands, about 500 strikes a day. And he was hitting the stool hard. He was told to stop doing it, but he wouldn’t listen and persisted. On top of that, he never used Dit Da Jow on his hands. Although even that cannot counter the negative effects of incorrect training. After some time of him practicing this routine, he started seeing double and blurry (he’d never needed glasses before); then was barely able to hold a pair of chopsticks anymore, due to his hands constantly shaking and losing dexterity. He began experiencing other problems as well, possibly with his heart. He was only about 20 years old at that time. I don’t know whatever happened to him.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#157

Post by James Y »

A little levity for the New Year. Chuck Norris on The Merv Griffin Show in 1971; Eva Gabor was guest hosting. Hard to believe this was 50 years ago:

https://youtu.be/zndl8pznghs

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#158

Post by James Y »

“Oblique kick”

Popularly called the oblique kick in MMA, it is a rear-leg kick to the front with the foot at a slightly outward angle. In the sport, it’s used with the body leaning back, aimed mainly at the opponent’s thigh.

This is not a new kick. It’s one of the most basic kicks found in both northern and southern systems of traditional Kung Fu. Wing Chun practitioners like to take credit for it, but it is a common Kung Fu kick, and Wing Chun doesn’t have a monopoly on it.

The difference in the Kung Fu application of this kick is NOT used as a jab; it’s generally used in closer proximity simultaneously with the hands, which are striking and/or pulling the opponent. A pulling movement puts the opponent’s weight onto his forward leg, making it more vulnerable. Then the ‘oblique kick’ targets the shin bone. It can also strike the knee joint at an angle (not straight-on, unless the knee is locked straight), causing potentially severe damage. The kick can be delivered either straight-legged (swinging like a pendulum until the inside edge or bottom of the shoe or heel strikes the shin), or by first bending the knee and thrusting it (also into the shin, or at an angle into the knee, or back of the knee). When striking the shin, after the initial contact of the blow, the foot can then scrape down the shin and onto the opponent’s foot with your full weight as you continue moving into him with a strike(s). A benefit of the oblique kick (also sometimes called the ‘cross kick’ due to its resemblance to an exaggerated forward crossover step) in traditional usage is that it can be applied in very close quarters, and is very hard to see or detect, unlike the sport MMA version. In fact, the sport application serves almost the opposite purpose (keeping the opponent at a distance).

The key is, if the ‘oblique kick’ is being used offensively, it’s real effectiveness is when the opponent’s weight is on his front leg, as when he’s stepping (or being pulled) towards you. Or if he’s holding his position rigidly with his weight more or less evenly distributed, as in a ‘side horse stance’ or a ‘forward stance’. It can also be used to block or jam other low kicks, but low side kicks and half-side kicks are generally better as foot blocks/kick interceptors. Traditionally, the oblique kick was used as only part of a strategy, and always used in combination with other techniques, rather than as a stand-alone technique. Used in this manner, it is a very aggressive kick using one’s body weight, but is usually a lead-in to the finisher rather than the finisher itself.

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#159

Post by James Y »

Machete fights in the Dominican Republic:

https://youtu.be/c7JMuzll-W4

Jim
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Re: Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

#160

Post by James Y »

A Haitian machete martial arts master:

https://youtu.be/7p_NUEn7F_g

Jim
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