6" Mule discussion.

[VandymanG]

Really hoping the 6 inch mule will work as a hunting or bushcraft style/type knife. Would love testing the steel out with various bushcraft skills. Z -wear, 3V, MagnaCut, or MagnaMax would be great options for the first steel. Or maybe AEB-L, 14C28N, or 10V

[Steeltoez83]

Every time I glance over this thread, I move a little closer to pulling the trigger on buying a santoku and treating it like its a 6 inch mule team.

[bob-atlatl]

Asked AI to change a few things on my previous image, its still a full flat grind :

[Mk-211]

7 pages...

[VandymanG]

Asked AI to change a few things on my previous image, its still a full flat grind :

That’s really nice looking. If the mule looks anything close to that it’s going to be great. Hopefully it will be thick enough to baton wood with. Or hopefully the first steel will be really tough like……….………….

[Pengubandit]

Asked AI to change a few things on my previous image, its still a full flat grind :

This is great!

[barnaclesonaboat]

Asked AI to change a few things on my previous image, its still a full flat grind :

Killer looking profile for a 6" blade!

[Coastal]

Asked AI to change a few things on my previous image, its still a full flat grind :

Well that would be an automatic purchase for me...

[bob-atlatl]

for kicks, asked AI for a typical scandi grind, think I prefer the look of flat grind..

[vivi]

I would buy 2 in PE for sure.

My mule teams are basically on full time cutting board duty these days. Unfortunately, because of their size, they don't see nearly as much use as I'd like in the kitchen. My Magnamax MT has been on the cutting board and used since I got it and still hasn't needed sharpening. It's a very versatile shape but not fine tuned enough to be a great kitchen only knife.


[Pic from Mule Team XL thread]

I think one really important detail that the previous rendition of the MT-XL lacked was the ablility to do flat chopping style cuts on the cutting board. This was due to two reasons, the handle angle and choil. To make a kitchen version the handle has to clear the cutting board and the choil needs to be at the same height as the blade. Along with a bit of material removed from the scales at the front to allow for an god pinch grip I would think something like this would be a pretty good kitchen knife.


6in mule team xl6.png



Thin blade stock ( not more than 0.100" to 0.120" at the thickest portion of the spine) and thin BTE would make this a fantastic kitchen test knife. Iwould target closer to 6.5in. Taller blade would be great too for better finger clearnace with regular chopping but I don't think that's completely neccesary. I can see the handle being bigger or the same size. There are benefits to both and I'm not sure where I'd land on that without trying it out.



As for material, I think anything would be fine. I agree with previous posts that Magnacut would most likely to sell, but stuff like Pop's ProCut I would be very interest in, and it fits very well with things like Super Blue and other high carbon steels commonly used in nice kitchen knives.

I did make my own ProCut mule team and have enjoyed using it. Would not mind a Spyderco official one.

Edit: Forgot pic of my ProCut mule team.

Also, I definitely like the idea of a kitchen mule team much more than a bushcraft one.
I'll work on a few quick Carboard prototypes in the next couple.of days and share my thoughts.

you're on the right path, but one needs to compensate for knuckle clearance too.

No matter the steel, ergos, thinness BTE etc., no knife without proper knuckle clearance will ever compare to the efficiency of a knife with it for general culinary use.

For certain specialized roles it doesn't matter, but a general use kitchen knife needs it.

my 5 & 6" petty knives, my 6 & 7" santokus, my 8" chef knives....all have enough clearance for cutting board use without having to angle them funny and just use the tip.

If we're going to get a kitchen mule, it needs to actually be a full on kitchen mule.

I'd also vote 8" for that role over 6", and 2mm stock is plenty. I use 2mm thick 10" knives and 1mm thick 6-8" knives daily as a chef. Except for specialized roles like cleavers I have never needed 2mm+ stock on a dedicated kitchen knife.

The Mule XL with the 6" blade, no knuckle clearance, negative angle and 3mm stock? That will be a utility / hiker / bush crafter for me.

Anyone interested in a kitchen mule owes it to themselves to spend the $13.50 it takes to get a Kiwi #21 shipped to their door. Use that for a month and then think about what a dedicated kitchen Mule really ought to be. If you're used to thick western chef knives it'll really change your perspective with its laser thin stock.

[sal]

Hey Vivi,

One size for one kitchen knife Mule. How long of a blade? How much knuckle clearance?

sal

[vivi]

Hey Vivi,

One size for one kitchen knife Mule. How long of a blade? How much knuckle clearance?

sal

I would go with 2mm stock, 8" length, typical chefs pattern shape, and 1" minimum knuckle clearance. I like 1 & 1/4" better myself.


edit: this may help. my most used knives plus a standard victorinox modern 8" chefs.



those are 1" markings on the cutting board.

Another detail that I prefer is a sharp heel. I use it to help peel whole onions, halve avocado and remove the seed, etc.

[sal]

Hey Vivi,

Why a "Chef" style instead of a "Santoku" style?

sal

[vivi]

Hey Vivi,

Why a "Chef" style instead of a "Santoku" style?

sal

I prefer chef pattern knives for rocking cuts, which I utilize frequently.

[sal]

thanx.

sal

[ChrisinHove]

Hey Vivi,

Why a "Chef" style instead of a "Santoku" style?

sal

I prefer chef pattern knives for rocking cuts, which I utilize frequently.

This made me closely compare my old Global Gyuto and my Spyderco Chef’s Knife.

Without ever consciously considering it, I always reach for the Gyuto. I do only prepare meals for 2 or 3, though, not dozens.

I was slightly surprised to find the edges are identical in edge length and profile, and they are only 7g difference in weight (the Chef’s knife is heavier and 25% less tall). The subconscious appeal must be the performance of the far thinner edge, and overall balance.

I’ve never had or used a Santoku (or Kiwi 21) to compare with, though. It’s more fun to have professional knives but I wonder whether a full-on Chef’s knife rather than one of those more home-user friendly designs might restrict take-up, and more importantly, actual use.

I would also guess that although balance is important in a home user, it must be far more critical for a professional user. Blade weight and balance will still have to be right on a kitchen mule.

[N. Brian Huegel]

Hey Vivi,

One size for one kitchen knife Mule. How long of a blade? How much knuckle clearance?

sal

Knuckle clearance is rather dependant upon grip. A "pinch grip" requires the least blade height. Santokus can have a "lively" edge (one continuous arc) if sharpened properly.

nb

[vivi]

How much the blade is angled plays a role too. That damascus petty has a more upswept curve to the edge so despite having little knuckle clearance it works pretty well on a cutting board. Won't replace a chefs knife obviously, but it's nice for smaller tasks.

[Pengubandit]

I would buy 2 in PE for sure.

My mule teams are basically on full time cutting board duty these days. Unfortunately, because of their size, they don't see nearly as much use as I'd like in the kitchen. My Magnamax MT has been on the cutting board and used since I got it and still hasn't needed sharpening. It's a very versatile shape but not fine tuned enough to be a great kitchen only knife.


[Pic from Mule Team XL thread]

I think one really important detail that the previous rendition of the MT-XL lacked was the ablility to do flat chopping style cuts on the cutting board. This was due to two reasons, the handle angle and choil. To make a kitchen version the handle has to clear the cutting board and the choil needs to be at the same height as the blade. Along with a bit of material removed from the scales at the front to allow for an god pinch grip I would think something like this would be a pretty good kitchen knife.


6in mule team xl6.png



Thin blade stock ( not more than 0.100" to 0.120" at the thickest portion of the spine) and thin BTE would make this a fantastic kitchen test knife. Iwould target closer to 6.5in. Taller blade would be great too for better finger clearnace with regular chopping but I don't think that's completely neccesary. I can see the handle being bigger or the same size. There are benefits to both and I'm not sure where I'd land on that without trying it out.



As for material, I think anything would be fine. I agree with previous posts that Magnacut would most likely to sell, but stuff like Pop's ProCut I would be very interest in, and it fits very well with things like Super Blue and other high carbon steels commonly used in nice kitchen knives.

I did make my own ProCut mule team and have enjoyed using it. Would not mind a Spyderco official one.

Edit: Forgot pic of my ProCut mule team.

Also, I definitely like the idea of a kitchen mule team much more than a bushcraft one.
I'll work on a few quick Carboard prototypes in the next couple.of days and share my thoughts.

you're on the right path, but one needs to compensate for knuckle clearance too.

No matter the steel, ergos, thinness BTE etc., no knife without proper knuckle clearance will ever compare to the efficiency of a knife with it for general culinary use.

For certain specialized roles it doesn't matter, but a general use kitchen knife needs it.

my 5 & 6" petty knives, my 6 & 7" santokus, my 8" chef knives....all have enough clearance for cutting board use without having to angle them funny and just use the tip.

If we're going to get a kitchen mule, it needs to actually be a full on kitchen mule.

I'd also vote 8" for that role over 6", and 2mm stock is plenty. I use 2mm thick 10" knives and 1mm thick 6-8" knives daily as a chef. Except for specialized roles like cleavers I have never needed 2mm+ stock on a dedicated kitchen knife.

The Mule XL with the 6" blade, no knuckle clearance, negative angle and 3mm stock? That will be a utility / hiker / bush crafter for me.

Anyone interested in a kitchen mule owes it to themselves to spend the $13.50 it takes to get a Kiwi #21 shipped to their door. Use that for a month and then think about what a dedicated kitchen Mule really ought to be. If you're used to thick western chef knives it'll really change your perspective with its laser thin stock.

I agree, knuckle clearance is super important. The critical things any mule team has to have, IMO is the handle shape, leaf shaped blade, full flat grind, little spydie hole. Other aspects can probably be tweaked a ton.

For something kitchen focused I think <0.100" stock would be ideal but keeping it slightly thicker would be fine too just not a lot more.

As much as I don't mind at all an 8" blade, it feels too specialized to me. something between 5.5" to 6.5" feels a lot more portable and like it could be a kitchen focused knife but one you could bring camping with you and do some light duty camping tasks with.
I kind of use my spydiechef as an EDC sometimes and the cooking focus doesn't significantly detract from it's general purpose uses.

[vivi]

Respectfully, we see the kitchen Mule a bit differently.

To me 8" is about the perfect size for a general purpose kitchen knife. If I were going to pick a single knife to use in the kitchen, it'd be an 8" chefs.

Personally I reach for 10" chefs 9/10 times over 8", but those can be a bit much for smaller tasks, and you need the right sized cutting board too.

0.100" stock is already too thick in my eyes to begin with.

I own a 3mm stock chefs knife, the cold steel commercial series one. It spends most of its days at home because I notice additional binding on certain hard foods like honey dew and taro roots that 2mm or 1mm don't experience as much.

Thick blade stock is bad for almost every cutting job in a kitchen in my experience.

What benefits do you see with going thicker at the spine?