Thanks Brotha I can always count on you for knife specs…you mentioned earlier that it’s like a Dfly for larger hands and that got me fired up!!! also I don’t baby my knives and sounds like the Chap is solid especially with an internal stop pin…and I love the look of the lw
You are very welcome!
But... except you CAN´T "always count on me for knife specs" ... as you may have read I got that one wrong and forum brother R100 thankfully corrected me
BOTH Chap and Centofane have 2.00 mm stock.
Weird that I got that one wrong, since I actually stated countless times that the Centofante blade has as thin stock as the Chap, but is not in ffg.
I must be getting old...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Though actually the pic deceives a bit and makes the Chap look larger than it is:
As David / Evil D pointed out in another thread, as soon as one actually closes the hand and grips the handle, the fingers get a lot wider and fill out the handle more than when the knife just lies in hand like in the pic.
Still: With index finger in the choil I think most people, even with XL and larger (but not giant... ) hands should get a good (four finger) grip on the Chap.
As said in my previous post: There is clearly more space on a Chap when using the choil than on Manix or PM2 BEHIND (!) the choil (I post the referring pic again below)
And if not: Does not matter too much ergonomically on the Chap if the pinky of a really giant hand does not fully fit on the handle anymore, cause there is no pinky hook at the handle end that could get uncomfortable then.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
It has been on my list for a while too. At this point, I might just wait for SE.
...or at least for the next reveal in hope that there´ll be an SE Chap in it...
This blade in SE must be an AMAZING cutter indeed!!!
Actually, the SE counter puppy and counter critter - so dedicated kitchen knives - have the same blade stock thickness as the Chap. (But certainly a lot more flex I am sure. Longer, less wide blades, even the Puppy).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
It has been on my list for a while too. At this point, I might just wait for SE.
...or at least for the next reveal in hope that there´ll be an SE Chap in it...
This blade in SE must be an AMAZING cutter indeed!!!
Actually, the SE counter puppy and counter critter - so dedicated kitchen knives - have the same blade stock thickness as the Chap. (But certainly a lot more flex I am sure. Longer, less wide blades, even the Puppy).
It would be a great cutter because I have a Rescue CLIPITOOL that is actually 2mm or less at the spine throughout the length of the cutting edge. The full flat grind reduces the 2.5mm stock to 2mm right away and then taper towards the tip.
The serrations are really good. Although good performers, they are a little different from all of my other Spyderedges because the pairs of small scallops are actually slightly longer than a single large scallop.
So I know this geometry works very well.
If I could have 3 serrated Spyderco’s with 2mm stock, they would be a Chaparral, Centofante 3/4, and a new budget Rescue that repurposes the blade from the Rescue CLIPTOOL into a single bladed BD1N Value Folder.
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
I think the semi-transparent Ultem scales would look nice on the Chaparral like these US-made Hogue Deka with Stonewashed MagnaCut blade (Clip Point or Wharncliffe) & Gold Ultem scales.
I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln
Spyderco used to be cutting edge with materials and designs. Between their obvious lag in getting Magnacut to the market after all of the hype, competitors production knives already using Ultem, and the constant recycling of a few of the same designs really does leave me kind of wondering what’s going on?
Do right always. It will give you satisfaction in life.
--Wovoka
Spyderco used to be cutting edge with materials and designs. Between their obvious lag in getting Magnacut to the market after all of the hype, competitors production knives already using Ultem, and the constant recycling of a few of the same designs really does leave me kind of wondering what’s going on?
CPM Rex T15, Spy27, K390, 15V, Maxamet, various other recent or upcoming Mules, and the MagnaCut knives that are on the way aside from the Native 5.
They consistently push performance.
Everyone will go, “Oh, now it’s Spyderco’s turn!” when more of their MagnaCut knives release at their own pace. I think they’ve earned a reputation when it comes to getting steels right.
Ultem is not a cutting edge material for knife scales any more than Carbon Fiber, FRN, or the other common ones. It’s a good material, but it’s popularization seems like more of an aesthetic trend?
MKM’s Magnesium handled Goccia from Blade Show is “cutting edge” handle material stuff.
MagnaCut knives taking a while to be available or Ultem not being used yet are not big deals to me.
Maybe I’m more patient about waiting on new designs but there is more than enough to keep me occupied in the meantime and we know of a bunch that are in the pipeline.
Anyway, It definitely makes sense to have an Ultem Chaparral and I do think that the Chaparral variations could be way more numerous and productive than they are now.
Same with the Sage Series locking mechanisms.
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
Chaparral is one of the best folders currently in the Spyderco lineup for me - incredible performance, great steel, fantastic backlock without any blade play. I would say that it has same pocket time as one of my Urbans which is quite something as I am obsessed with those bad boys.
Some nice fat carbon would be very nice, different colors of FRN would be very welcome as well. I am glad though, that Urban is in grey FRN and not black as it is more comfortable for NKP around me. Just imagine that even black handled Squeak is percieved as more "threatening" than my AEB-L urban just due to color. Some people even ask me where to get such a nice knife and are not scared of it just because of the handle color!
Nevertheless, I am really looking forward to see more variations of Chap.
Chaparral is one of the best folders currently in the Spyderco lineup for me - incredible performance, great steel, fantastic backlock without any blade play.
....
Perfectly put.
If one wants pure cutting performance and high quality in a sub-Delica-sized folder: This is it imo.
As always: Can't wait for the /a Chap SE...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Spyderco used to be cutting edge with materials and designs. Between their obvious lag in getting Magnacut to the market after all of the hype, competitors production knives already using Ultem, and the constant recycling of a few of the same designs really does leave me kind of wondering what’s going on?
Offering Magnacut in the Salt format seems pretty cutting edge to me. I see no other company pushing Magnacut to that level of company-backed corrosion resistance standing. Ontario just released what looks to be a knife for fishing, however, I don't see them claim it, nor the other materials used, won't rust (in this case most likely the hardware).
The MULE TEAM Project is still pumping out new steels to the knife community, nearly once a month as of late. Everyone is too wrapped up in the name on the side of the blade (steel) to know, or care if the performance is an objective of the company offering such; Spyderco is actually trying to get you darn near the best performance out of that name on the blade (steel). I see no other production company offer that level of cutting edge performance.
I think the lack of "new new" in designs has most to do with the capacity issues we keep hearing about. I have no reason to doubt that. As has been reported by the goers of Blade Show, there are plenty of prototypes that were displayed, many of which seemed to be brand new designs. Who knows how many more are behind closed doors?
Golden is getting a massive expansion and the other factories are already pumping out dozens of models themselves. The sprint/limited run format makes sense right now, with how many mainstay models truly are being produced; it's easier and more cost effective to not take such huge risks with potential financial duds to the market. Many seem to think Spyderco is way too overpriced as-is and see no value to what they do offer; so how do they justify marketing yet another brand-new, overpriced product to those consumers?
As sal has mentioned, to introduce something new, what must give up? Until more can be offered, what would you like to see give up to get the new you are looking for? Everyone here seems to express a want of more, whilst expressing a huge fear of seeing something go, to get that more. Spyderco still needs to pay their expenses and the current "lull" on withholding the new-new allows for that. I'm sure as has been the case with the MULE TEAM Project, Spyderco assesses their new product in greater depth, since so many of the new designs that had been coming to market pre-covid, didn't really seem to gain much traction, even amongst the "fans".
Also, I see no value in Spyderco being "FIRST!" to introduce a brand new steel, material, whatever it may be. They call that keeping up with the Jones' and that's much more relatable to insecurity, than pushing the envelope. Spyderco doesn't seem to express this FOMO as a company model, like some others do. Patience is a virtue lost nowadays. I have faith that Spyderco has much brand new to offer, once they can properly offer it to the market.
Spyderco used to be cutting edge with materials and designs. Between their obvious lag in getting Magnacut to the market after all of the hype, competitors production knives already using Ultem, and the constant recycling of a few of the same designs really does leave me kind of wondering what’s going on?
Offering Magnacut in the Salt format seems pretty cutting edge to me. I see no other company pushing Magnacut to that level of company-backed corrosion resistance standing. Ontario just released what looks to be a knife for fishing, however, I don't see them claim it, nor the other materials used, won't rust (in this case most likely the hardware).
The MULE TEAM Project is still pumping out new steels to the knife community, nearly once a month as of late. Everyone is too wrapped up in the name on the side of the blade (steel) to know, or care if the performance is an objective of the company offering such; Spyderco is actually trying to get you darn near the best performance out of that name on the blade (steel). I see no other production company offer that level of cutting edge performance.
I think the lack of "new new" in designs has most to do with the capacity issues we keep hearing about. I have no reason to doubt that. As has been reported by the goers of Blade Show, there are plenty of prototypes that were displayed, many of which seemed to be brand new designs. Who knows how many more are behind closed doors?
Golden is getting a massive expansion and the other factories are already pumping out dozens of models themselves. The sprint/limited run format makes sense right now, with how many mainstay models truly are being produced; it's easier and more cost effective to not take such huge risks with potential financial duds to the market. Many seem to think Spyderco is way too overpriced as-is and see no value to what they do offer; so how do they justify marketing yet another brand-new, overpriced product to those consumers?
As sal has mentioned, to introduce something new, what must give up? Until more can be offered, what would you like to see give up to get the new you are looking for? Everyone here seems to express a want of more, whilst expressing a huge fear of seeing something go, to get that more. Spyderco still needs to pay their expenses and the current "lull" on withholding the new-new allows for that. I'm sure as has been the case with the MULE TEAM Project, Spyderco assesses their new product in greater depth, since so many of the new designs that had been coming to market pre-covid, didn't really seem to gain much traction, even amongst the "fans".
Also, I see no value in Spyderco being "FIRST!" to introduce a brand new steel, material, whatever it may be. They call that keeping up with the Jones' and that's much more relatable to insecurity, than pushing the envelope. Spyderco doesn't seem to express this FOMO as a company model, like some others do. Patience is a virtue lost nowadays. I have faith that Spyderco has much brand new to offer, once they can properly offer it to the market.
I personally understand JDW’s uncertainty at the moment.
It’s not like they developed the Salt series specifically in response to Magnacut. They benefited from already having near decades of real world testing and feedback from their existing Salt series platforms. As long as Magnacut itself aligned with the standards they’ve set for their Salt series, to me it seems like a relatively easy transition to make.
I still believe they are at the forefront of experimenting with new knife steel in a production setting. Their Mule Team Project alone is evidence of that but also the plethora of limited runs in super steels they do proves such as well.
We are often reminded about how Spyderco was the “FIRST!” to use a pocket clip, serrations, powder metallurgy, etc. on knives; What is the value of that? Is there no value in pride of innovation? I believe there is a lot of value in being innovative. (Especially if it can be patented.)
I would contend that insecurity could in part be the cause of what we’re seeing now. Low confidence that pushing the envelope will be profitable and as a result being innovative, trying new things, or “pushing the envelope” is then deemed to be too financially risky. At the same time though, I can understand why Spyderco would make some of those decisions at this time. The expansion they’re undergoing can’t be cheap and obviously doesn't happen overnight. Planning something of that nature is expensive and time consuming. It makes sense to slow down some of the more expensive projects to help prioritize funding the expansion. So I’m guessing designing, developing, prototyping, and testing too many new designs would likely be too cost restrictive for the time being.
Also in my opinion, there is currently a handful of redundancies in Spyderco’s catalog that could be dropped to help make room for some new designs. Still though, I’m optimistic that the Golden expansion will alleviate some production capacity issues and will allow for them to fit many more new designs and innovation back into their catalog.
In regards to Ultem scales on a Chaparral, to me it would seemingly make sense to try to take advantage of a handle material trend but I also recognize the idea of taking the time to test things and make sure whatever is brought to market is optimized for high performance. Which is something I would actually attribute to Spyderco for not being “FIRST!” to use certain materials, such as Ultem or Magnacut. I’m guessing Spyderco has noticed the Ultem trend and began their own material testing. (Durability, machinability, longevity, etc.) Once they’ve gathered the information they need, that’s when they’ll move forward with the material.
I agree with you that while FOMO may drive what some companies produce and sell, it does not seem to impact Spyderco in the slightest and as a result they’re no longer always “FIRST!” anymore. Which isn’t a bad thing though. While I do believe there can be value in being the first to produce something and innovate, I do not believe it is a necessity to thrive.
I appreciate your response, Mushroom! You make excellent counterpoints.
To keep things less cluttered, I won't be re-quoting your post.
I hear and understand the uncertainty sentiments towards Spyderco. I held those same beliefs and opinions for a while myself, however, after the interactions here with sal (thanx much for all you are willing and able to share! I appreciate it.), I truly believe that the slowed down approach from them in offering brand new product is in regards to the company expanding. They also have to juggle their shareable info, with our impatient demands and expectations through all of this. We only hear about this massive expansion within Golden, but as we have come to be let in on, they are always pushing new steels and I'm sure new manufacturing possibilities, to their overseas makers. This means to me that they are upping their standard operating capabilities as a baseline, before setting sites on foreign shores (being brand new product). For example, K390 (and many more steels at this point) and the compression lock within Seki, and now M4 in China. How much more is happening that we don't see, as we currently discuss what we do know?
I didn't want to see the company expanding (especially at a time when this was not so public knowledge) as a "realistic" reasoning for a "lack" of new product, nor did I believe that for a long while, until it hit me. Spyderco as a company seem to do their best efforts in bringing the best out of their product at their respective price point, versus offering more quantity, at said price points. I, as a consumer, value that greatly. If I wanted more of a product to play with and satiate my fidgety or compulsive behavior, I'd look to a different market. Many others have merely looked to a different knife manufacturer to satiate that "need". Spyderco already offers a rather extensive catalog, as is, and I'd never be able to scratch the surface that they cover, anyway. Being that they are a cutlery company, I am glad to see they prioritize and value the performance as such without making things inherently more marketable, for the current market trends.
I believe in their expansion, they are keeping up with that behavior, in trying to do it right, versus do it fast. We have to understand that they as a company have just as many, if not more, needs, in order to produce what we expect. Sometimes the company has to take a more slowed stride, before sprinting. They've been at it pushing 50 years now, I think they deserve that. I do not believe that this is a lack of confidence, nor insecurity at play, rather a sense of when they can honestly uphold the standard that they have set for themselves (and of which they always try to push and further progress) as a company, before they feel comfortable, in offering brand new product. With all the current complaints we seem to have plaguing their current production "flaws", perhaps they are looking to iron that out before offering even more "flawed", yet brand new product? Perhaps the thing that they gave up, in order to offer more, was in giving up their current capability to manufacture brand new product, and instead are choosing to bide the time in producing the models that they currently offer, until they have that capability confidently covered? Perhaps this is an answer to the old adage, "In trying to please everybody, you'll end up pleasing no one"? They can't just overhaul their entire product line because a select share of the knife community is impatient for them to manufacture new models. I agree that there is much that I don't particularly find value in within the catalog, however, I am only a sample size of one.
sal is also passing on the torch to Eric. I appreciate that Eric sees the same value in the seeds that sal and Gail cultivated the company from and is keeping up (and arguably stepping up) those respective values, to keep up with consumer expectations (of Spyderco, not the knife community at large). Overall, there are many things going on behind closed doors and we have to be able to respect that and have patience in the fact that not all developing measures of improvement, innovation, nor development, are to be quantified in leaps. While I do express frustration from impatience from time to time, I'm grateful that we get as much of an inside look, and to some extent a real say on what takes place, within the company, but we still are very much "fans", sitting in the bleachers.
In regards to my "FIRST!" and FOMO statements, I'm speaking directly as the first to follow a trend and not out of innovation itself. I understand that innovation makes someone first at something, but I find that Spyderco looks at innovation from that "cutting edge" scope, rather than from a FOMO on getting sales from marketplace trends. Most revolutionary innovations at this point within the cutlery industry are only to be measured in mere feet, rather than the miles they used to extend. To be fair, much of the industry out there befalls these same innovative lulls, if you will. Until something truly revolutionary comes along, we just have to understand and respect that. This is not in our timeframe as humans, right now. Until then, enjoy what is, is all I can say. I will never show a lack of appreciation regardless. I'll extend it again; thank you sal, Gail, Eric and the rest of the Spyderco family for all that you do, do.
Ultem is basically the Jade G-10 of 2023. I'm not dissing the material, it's just the corresponding fad. Some people really dig it. Some do not. I'm in the "does not dig" camp.
Ultem is basically the Jade G-10 of 2023. I'm not dissing the material, it's just the corresponding fad. Some people really dig it. Some do not. I'm in the "does not dig" camp.
I, by principle, always refuse to dig. You never know what you might be digging for !
In the collection : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.
Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives MNOSD member 004* aka Mr. N5s
All Stainless Steel (perhaps engraved -- makes it super thin since there's no need for liners)
I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln
All Stainless Steel (perhaps engraved -- makes it super thin since there's no need for liners)
I’m probably the new kid on the block afa the Chaparral so any of these scales would be awesome cuz I’m kinda liking the FRN so far…it’s such a solid little knife and very slicey
Some ideas I like are TeroTuf in multiple colors, materials that glow in the dark or are very reflective like a stop sign, silver twill carbon fiber, and aluminum.
I’m not sure I would prefer Ultem with no liners, so the mechanism is visible, or something like colored liners that might give it a unique look. I think there are different colors of Ultem too.
It would be neat if Spyderco maybe collaborated with MKM on a chaparral or even just the scales in Magnesium. I find the Magnesium knife scales really fascinating. Maniago Knife Makers is apparently working with another Italian manufacturer that does magnesium machining for Formula 1 Cars.
I just think it would be cool, since we’re talking about Chaparral variations.
Last edited by Cl1ff on Sun Jul 02, 2023 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
I can always count on you for knife specs…you mentioned earlier that it’s like a Dfly for larger hands and that got me fired up!!! also I don’t baby my knives and sounds like the Chap is solid especially with an internal stop pin…and I love the look of the lw
... as you may have read I got that one wrong and forum brother R100 thankfully corrected me 
I believe that, my giant friend...
) 
