Spyderco Forums

dlum1 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:44 am

The only thing that keeps me from taking a g10 anything fishing (in either fresh or saltwater where I know I'll be wading) or biking is the stop pin and/or liners. They tend to corrode as easily as s30v. At least, that was my experience a few years ago. I'd be curious to hear if this has changed. A salt version of their g10 models would almost certainly be a buy from me. I love the action of my g10 models. I think magnacut would be a nice upgrade in the corrosion department, but I've been happy with the corrosion resistance of 20cv and s110v. My preference is still a hard tool steel and so far, my magnacut mule basically behaves as a stainless cruwear.

Sounds like you need a Caribbean, and if they do them in MagnaCut I'm buying several.

i agree with evil d on this one. the caribbean is fantastic.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:30 pm

Sounds like you need a Caribbean, and if they do them in MagnaCut I'm buying several.

Good point! I had forgotten about that model. I've yet to do a side by side comparison between lc200n and magnacut, but I suspect I'd prefer the higher hardness steel in the end; i.e. magnacut.

kennbr34 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:08 pm

DunninLA wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:45 pm

blues wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:34 pm

M390 does have better edge retention according to Larrin's chart:

Larrin's chart is not for true "edge retention", though that is the term he uses. It is really for "edge abrasion resistance", since it uses CATRA, and all the CATRA machine tells you is resistance to edge abrasion in the absence of impact.

I agree that he should call it wear resistance instead of edge retention, but he DOES also talk about "edge stability" a lot on his blog, which is what you're discussing when speaking about how an edge holds up to impacting a cutting board.

However, I have to disagree with your take on this. I seldom ever use a cutting board, or any kind of backing surface. Meanwhile, when I do, it's usually for cooking, and usually a plastic cutting board. That kind of invalidates any testing difference that was caused by a wood cutting board for my uses and that's really the reason why CATRA is used.

It's not a limited test, it's a controlled test.

To put that differently... How do I know that Pete didn't use a very heavy hand, a soft blade of M390 and a hard blade of MagnaCut, and a really hard wood cutting board? Then if I used a light hand, a hard M390 blade and a soft MagnaCut blade, and a soft plastic cutting board, would I see better edge retention for M390?

I don't think the CATRA test was ever actually intended to be a predictive test of which steel would cut longer

Pete has quite a few data points, and I do look at his columns for method of applying the edge, the edge angle, the claimed HRC of the knife he tested, etc.

However, his most useful data is the subset which is devoted to the Mules. Same geometry, known heat treat, same rope, same cutting method, and same wooden cutting board backdrop. And that is why I can confidently say that in cutting through sisal rope, impacting a cutting board, Magnacut's Mule paper slicing edge lasts longer than M390's Mule performance. You're going to have to explain how that is not more relevant than CATRA if you'd like to propose that M390's edge last longer quite a bit longer than Magnacut's.

Pete's method, to me, is more predictive of real world use than the CATRA. Yet Larrin's chart for Edge Retention has M390 at 6.5 and Magnacut at 5... base on what? Based on CATRA! No impact after cut, and very abrasive medium. Pete's chart, if he were to have one, would put Magnacut at 7 and M390 at 6.5, with differences not enough to bother about. That is a significant difference to Larrin's chart. Yet Larrin's chart is the one that nerds and OCD purchasers reference when trying to decide which steal possesses the balance of attributes they value for their next knife purchase. The representations in Larrin's chart then filter down to youtube reviewers, knife retailers, etc. ... to the point where an average Joe knife collector will simply assume that it is "scientific fact" that M390 has much better edge retention in real world use than Magnacut does. It can be misleading.

DunninLA wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:36 pm

...
You're going to have to explain how that is not more relevant than CATRA if you'd like to propose that M390's edge last longer quite a bit longer than Magnacut's. ...

I think he just did.

You're just repeating yourself at this point.

Cutting a mile of rope on a wooden board is interesting, but not particulary persuasive compared to more scientific methods.

Embrace your inner nerd.

Just my 2 cents, but I think it's important that people not look at these graphs (whether rope test or CATRA) and walk away with a single expected value for something like edge retention. In reality, that single value is more representative of a distribution's mean. I think DunninLA was pointing out (in other words) that this edge-retention distribution has a variance based on usage. For both CATRA and rope tests, the tests are reasonably well controlled and the edge-retention distributions should be quite narrow (making the mean values easier to find with fewer tests). Yet, there still appears to be some overlap based on conflicting reports. In typical usage, these edge retention distributions will be significantly wider and tend to overlap considerably (based on the larger variability of materials being cut) -- until you move beyond m390 and start comparing 15v to magnacut I doubt there's much overlap there

Real world use is vast. Sometimes I cut stuff for a month without any "impact" on the edge behind the thing I just cut.

What are the chances of a Manix 2 salt in G10 with MagnaCut? The Caribbean g10 was great but I do prefer the manix lock to the compression lock.

Yes we DO actually need to Magnacut ALL the knives.

/thread

No… no we don’t. We don’t need one kind of anything…

For sure we do not. I have no doubt it's a great steel, but I am totally fine without it.

I don’t see why not.
Magnacut everything and k390 everything.

Mat_ski wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 04, 2024 6:15 pm

Magnacut everything and k390 everything.

I agree, the more of these two steels the better.

tzirconia wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:23 pm

Mat_ski wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 04, 2024 6:15 pm

Magnacut everything and k390 everything.

I agree, the more of these two steels the better.

That’s a sure fire way to kill the market. Variety is the spice of life….
Magnacut is an okay steel for something’s but it’s a compromise steel.
It isn’t the be all end all steel. What I prefer most out of a steel is edge
holding ability and corrosion resistance. I have “a” Magnacut knife. It is
okay but after carrying it a few times, it just never seems to replace
S110v in my pocket. Not a big non-stainless steels fan though I do like coated
REX45 and I am looking forward to trying Rex121. Magnacut just doesn’t tic
the boxes for me. Maybe the new Magna??? Larrin has in the works will. For
now I’m all good with S110v.

Jesla wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 05, 2024 6:02 am

tzirconia wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:23 pm

Mat_ski wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 04, 2024 6:15 pm

Magnacut everything and k390 everything.

I agree, the more of these two steels the better.

That’s a sure fire way to kill the market. Variety is the spice of life….
Magnacut is an okay steel for something’s but it’s a compromise steel.
It isn’t the be all end all steel. What I prefer most out of a steel is edge
holding ability and corrosion resistance. I have “a” Magnacut knife. It is
okay but after carrying it a few times, it just never seems to replace
S110v in my pocket. Not a big non-stainless steels fan though I do like coated
REX45 and I am looking forward to trying Rex121. Magnacut just doesn’t tic
the boxes for me. Maybe the new Magna??? Larrin has in the works will. For
now I’m all good with S110v.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting to Magnacut and K390 everything instead of all other steels, but in addition to all other steels. That way we can all choose our preferred steels for our preferred reasons.

Lets play w/ the words.
Could Magnacut, as a compromise steel, still be an end all steel?
(for the foreseeable future at least ofc)

If I had to pick only one steel to use for all knives, all applications, forever, for me Magnacut would be a good choice. So would LC200N. I would love to see both of these steels available in as many knives as possible, again so we have choice. Magnacut Ladybug? Yes please!

S30v used to be an exotic super steel.. now it's the practicaly the bare minimum needed to be considered a "premium" knife. I see magnacut on the same trajectory. Which makes me excited to see what kind of steel my grankids will be carrying

We don't need to magnacut all the knives.

Ideally all knife designs should be available in the steel the designer consider ideal for its intended use, and a decent budget steel to make the design available to more buyers as well as offer slightly different properties that allows the knife to cross over into use the designer may not had predicted.

I don't think magnacut can fill the role of being ideal for every intended use, but it does seem to take on more roles more better than most other steels, so from an economy of scale point of view it would be a very good choice if you want to optimise your process by using the same steel across many models in your lineup.

I well-understand being steel-curious and finding that “special” steel, but why would anyone want all their knives in that one steel?