yojimbo
I think the edge geometry, handle ergonomics, and cutting ability on the Ronin are amazing!!! But I have have a concern that the tip may break, has spyderco done any testing on this. I also find the micarta handle a little slippery, I wonder if they will make it with G10 or add kraton to the next model.Either way, I will still pick up a yojimbo when it is released...I have never had a knife cut as good as the Ronin.
Michael Janich put a lot of thought into designing the Ronin and Yojimbo, and a significant amount of testing to ensure the performance and durability of his design. Plus, the martial nature of the Yojimbo, with its straight edge and spine-to-edge ramped tip geometry, necessitate a thin point. If you get a chance, read Michael Janich's article on how he designed the Yojimbo/Ronin, it’ll answer most or all of your questions about its design and construction.
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Michael Janich
- Member
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- Location: Longmont, CO USA
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Dear cdf:
I'm not aware of any specific failures of the Ronin tip in the hands of our British cousins. If you have any details on this -- particularly regarding the type of use that caused the tip to break -- I'd be very interested to know them.
Although many people have speculated that the Ronin's tip is fragile, only a few have actually tested it rigorously. One of the most impressive tests was conducted by Fred Perrin, who repeatedly drove a Ronin through the skull of a freshly butchered pig without any damage to the tip whatsoever.
To be perfectly honest, the tip on the original Ronin design (the custom models made by Mike Snody) is stronger than the Spyderco version because the originals were chisel ground. The chisel grind leaves more steel at the tip without sacrificing much in the way of edge geometry. Sal doesn't like chisel grinds, so he had the Spyderco Ronin prototyped with both a full and a partial flat grind. I tested them both and chose the full flat grind. The tip on the partial flat grind wasn't appreciably thicker and the edge geometry wasn't as good. On the contrary, the cutting ability of the full flat grind was downright scary, and its penetration during thrusting was almost effortless. Even if the tip did break, it would not affect the cutting ability of the blade at all and the remaining stub of a tip would still penetrate better than many other knives in their original condition.
For the record, I have requested that the next round of Ronins have textured G-10 handles instead of micarta. This should lighten the knife, increase the security of the grip, and make sheath manufacture easier.
Like any other tool or weapon, if the Ronin is applied within the parameters of its intended use, it functions quite well. If you're looking for a knife to pry with, it should not be your first choice. But then, screwdrivers cut pretty poorly, too...
As for the Yojimbo, it is being produced here in the U.S. and will have the benefit of even better quality control and craftmanship. Although it will still have excellent edge geometry due to its full double flat grind, the tip will be noticeably thicker and stronger.
Thanks to everyone for your contributions to this thread and for your support of my designs.
Stay safe,
mike j
I'm not aware of any specific failures of the Ronin tip in the hands of our British cousins. If you have any details on this -- particularly regarding the type of use that caused the tip to break -- I'd be very interested to know them.
Although many people have speculated that the Ronin's tip is fragile, only a few have actually tested it rigorously. One of the most impressive tests was conducted by Fred Perrin, who repeatedly drove a Ronin through the skull of a freshly butchered pig without any damage to the tip whatsoever.
To be perfectly honest, the tip on the original Ronin design (the custom models made by Mike Snody) is stronger than the Spyderco version because the originals were chisel ground. The chisel grind leaves more steel at the tip without sacrificing much in the way of edge geometry. Sal doesn't like chisel grinds, so he had the Spyderco Ronin prototyped with both a full and a partial flat grind. I tested them both and chose the full flat grind. The tip on the partial flat grind wasn't appreciably thicker and the edge geometry wasn't as good. On the contrary, the cutting ability of the full flat grind was downright scary, and its penetration during thrusting was almost effortless. Even if the tip did break, it would not affect the cutting ability of the blade at all and the remaining stub of a tip would still penetrate better than many other knives in their original condition.
For the record, I have requested that the next round of Ronins have textured G-10 handles instead of micarta. This should lighten the knife, increase the security of the grip, and make sheath manufacture easier.
Like any other tool or weapon, if the Ronin is applied within the parameters of its intended use, it functions quite well. If you're looking for a knife to pry with, it should not be your first choice. But then, screwdrivers cut pretty poorly, too...
As for the Yojimbo, it is being produced here in the U.S. and will have the benefit of even better quality control and craftmanship. Although it will still have excellent edge geometry due to its full double flat grind, the tip will be noticeably thicker and stronger.
Thanks to everyone for your contributions to this thread and for your support of my designs.
Stay safe,
mike j
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Michael Janich
- Member
- Posts: 3312
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Longmont, CO USA
- Contact:
Perhaps the Camillus BK3 Tactool would better suit the needs of our friends across the pond.
http://www.camillusknives.com/bkt/bkt-knives/bk3.jpg
Qship
http://www.camillusknives.com/bkt/bkt-knives/bk3.jpg
Qship
"Qship,
If I did not know you better, I would say that you are trolling. "
No, just making a point. Lab electronics used to come with a sticker that said, "If the equipment is used for other than its intended purpose, the warrantee is null and void."
If you want a pry bar, buy a pry bar. If you want an MBC knife, buy an MBC knife.
Testing against newspaper wrapped around a wooden dowel and secured with duct tape (skin, flesh, bone simulation), my Ronin cut better than other knives, including the Masters of Defense Tempest I normally carry and the thin bladed Native I also carry. The Ronin cut down to, and into, the wooden dowel without damage to the tip, and I was using considerable force. I kept cutting until my arm got tired. People stronger than I participated in the test, and the Ronin emerged undamaged. Based on that abuse, I find it unlikely that the tip on the Ronin will break if used in a reasonable way. Lacking details from across the ocean, my only data comes from my own tests, and the pig head test cited above.
While I am confident in the structural integrity of the Ronin, I note that safety equipment, if it fails, should fail safe. If I were so unfortunate as to engage in a knife fight, losing a quarter inch of blade would be the least of my worries, so long as the Ronin would still penetrate and cut. The Ronin is designed to do just that.
If you strike an armed attacker with enough force to break the tip of your Ronin, I suggest you have made your immediate problem more manageable than it was.
Qship
If I did not know you better, I would say that you are trolling. "
No, just making a point. Lab electronics used to come with a sticker that said, "If the equipment is used for other than its intended purpose, the warrantee is null and void."
If you want a pry bar, buy a pry bar. If you want an MBC knife, buy an MBC knife.
Testing against newspaper wrapped around a wooden dowel and secured with duct tape (skin, flesh, bone simulation), my Ronin cut better than other knives, including the Masters of Defense Tempest I normally carry and the thin bladed Native I also carry. The Ronin cut down to, and into, the wooden dowel without damage to the tip, and I was using considerable force. I kept cutting until my arm got tired. People stronger than I participated in the test, and the Ronin emerged undamaged. Based on that abuse, I find it unlikely that the tip on the Ronin will break if used in a reasonable way. Lacking details from across the ocean, my only data comes from my own tests, and the pig head test cited above.
While I am confident in the structural integrity of the Ronin, I note that safety equipment, if it fails, should fail safe. If I were so unfortunate as to engage in a knife fight, losing a quarter inch of blade would be the least of my worries, so long as the Ronin would still penetrate and cut. The Ronin is designed to do just that.
If you strike an armed attacker with enough force to break the tip of your Ronin, I suggest you have made your immediate problem more manageable than it was.
Qship