Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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EatingPie
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#21

Post by EatingPie »

Bodog wrote:Bearing pivots are tough as **** to clean if you get some sticky gunk in there. There's always the option of soaking it in solvent and dripping some lube in, but if you don't take it apart to actually clean the bearings, problems persist. Ask me how I know. If that happens, should the knife be sent in so they can clean it? I'd hate to pay for shipping and bog the repair guys down with something so minor that can be fixed so easily at home. Seems kind of lame, like taking my car into the shop for an oil change or something.
How do you know? :) Actually, I am curious so I am seriously asking.

My POV is similar. I've been all over my new Manix 2 XL with a magnifying glass, and I'm just not sure how to get a bit more oil between the washers and the blade. At the very least, I'll have to loosen or remove a pivot screw.

In the opposite situation, I've received one or two knives (not Spyderco) that were absolutely soaking in oil. There's just no way to clean such a knife properly without taking it apart. And I'm not sure what kind of response I'd have gotten with a warrantee request stating "you over-oiled this knife"! :)

I can also see the manufacturer's perspective as well. I took apart a CRKT M16 series and it took 3 tries to rebuild correctly, entirely my fault. But I could easily see someone giving up and returning for warrantee work… though I hated that knife and it needed warrantee work by design… :cool:

-Pie
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#22

Post by Bodog »

Because one night I was playing poker and we were drinking some blue moon, and you need oranges with blue moon. The only knife there was mine, made by another company. So we spent all night playing cards and cutting up oranges to put in the beers. I rinsed it out pretty thoroughly thinking that would work. Nope. It went from pivoting great to absolutely terrible. I took it apart to clean it and there was all kind of crap between the bearing and the plastic cage keeping them from rolling within the cage. Cleaned it up, relubed, and voila, back in business. I couldn't have done it except by taking it apart. Should it be necessary to send a spyderco back in for basic maintenance like that? Well, it's already established that it is, so there's not much more to say. I'm sure that spyderco will do right in a situation like that on a case by case basis and the warranty policies are a blanket statement to keep from creating too much hassle by people doing stupid crap.

EatingPie wrote:
Bodog wrote:Bearing pivots are tough as **** to clean if you get some sticky gunk in there. There's always the option of soaking it in solvent and dripping some lube in, but if you don't take it apart to actually clean the bearings, problems persist. Ask me how I know. If that happens, should the knife be sent in so they can clean it? I'd hate to pay for shipping and bog the repair guys down with something so minor that can be fixed so easily at home. Seems kind of lame, like taking my car into the shop for an oil change or something.
How do you know? :) Actually, I am curious so I am seriously asking.

My POV is similar. I've been all over my new Manix 2 XL with a magnifying glass, and I'm just not sure how to get a bit more oil between the washers and the blade. At the very least, I'll have to loosen or remove a pivot screw.

In the opposite situation, I've received one or two knives (not Spyderco) that were absolutely soaking in oil. There's just no way to clean such a knife properly without taking it apart. And I'm not sure what kind of response I'd have gotten with a warrantee request stating "you over-oiled this knife"! :)

I can also see the manufacturer's perspective as well. I took apart a CRKT M16 series and it took 3 tries to rebuild correctly, entirely my fault. But I could easily see someone giving up and returning for warrantee work… though I hated that knife and it needed warrantee work by design… :cool:

-Pie
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tvenuto
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#23

Post by tvenuto »

Bodog wrote:Should it be necessary to send a spyderco back in for basic maintenance like that? Well, it's already established that it is, so there's not much more to say. I'm sure that spyderco will do right in a situation like that on a case by case basis and the warranty policies are a blanket statement to keep from creating too much hassle by people doing stupid crap.
No, it is not necessary, it's just the safest thing to do. It's your knife and you can do what you want with it, so if you think you can fix the issue then have at it. Obviously it can be done successfully in many instances. You just need to understand that spyderco doesn't stock replacement parts if you lose something, and will probably require you to send the knife in and may charge you to fix it. There have been several posters both here and on BF that have started indignant threads which generally stated: "I messed up my knife when disassembling, and spyderco won't send me the replacement part! Why not?" The warranty policy is just spyderco warning you that they aren't prepared to do this.

However, what you say is true: Spyderco takes care of people. Often they will go outside of the strict policy if it's the right thing to do. I have do doubt that if the knife were to show some previously unnoticed manufacturing defect (that was obviously unrelated to assembly) then the fact that you disassembled your knife for cleaning a month ago would not stop them from correcting the issue.
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#24

Post by Evil D »

Let me derail this thread and take it in another direction....what exactly is it about a warranty that makes you guys feel so safe? Why is it so necessary in the first place? Once you get a knife in your hands, if you have any experience at all with knives you should know within 10 minutes if there are any aesthetic issues. The rest is just heat treat, which is extremely rare from a company like this. Beyond that, what exactly is that warranty going to get it? If you snap the blade off, there's little chance warranty is going to cover it. The only other thing I can think of is premature lock wear or failure, which also seems very unlikely but also likely user created due to abuse. People get all bent out of shape at the idea of losing a warranty that there is probably less than a 1% chance that you'll ever use it anyway.
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#25

Post by gull wing »

I don't need no stinking Warranty, if it's a good knife in the first place . :D

and Spydercos are good knives. I've bought many, many spydercos and only had one that needed replacing.
I'VE TAKEN ALL OF THEM APART, EXCEPT FOR A PARA 2.(which was perfect)
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tvenuto
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#26

Post by tvenuto »

Good points. I've seen this in someone's sig: "Pay for quality, and only cry once."
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#27

Post by Fancier »

Bodog wrote:Because one night I was playing poker and we were drinking some blue moon, and you need oranges with blue moon.
Well, that isn't quite a "Hold my beer and watch this!" scenario but it is close. :)
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#28

Post by Blerv »

On the other side of the topic, I've never had to or wanted to take apart a Spyderco. I got a set of Allen wrenches with my Chris Reeves TiLock and probably won't take that apart either.

IMHO, with a little water and canned air I can keep a knife pretty dang clean. That and if I have to cut something that may get in the pivot I just get a bigger folder or make a number of shallow cuts. It's not out of fear but rather preemptive laziness. :p "Oh, I'd rather not mess with this later."
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#29

Post by Pomelly »

gull wing wrote:....
I'VE TAKEN ALL OF THEM APART, EXCEPT FOR A PARA 2.(which was perfect)
Just curiosity: do You haven't found something different through the years? Like screws steel a little bit soft? Because I've disassembled a lot of Spydercos me too, starting from models of the 80s, but I have had more than a problem with those screws lately, that is the motivation that make me desist to customize Spyderco knives....
I would like to clarify that I've never resorted to warranty assistance for "my" errors.
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Not Everybody Knows

#30

Post by LC Kid »

Hi Folks!


Every company in the world has the right to establish the terms how to warranty it products with their customers.

Spyderco might be the most ethical company in the Cutlery market, so I don't think they're doing anything wrong declining to warranty when any of their products get disassembled.

The real problem is that while it might seems very obvious how to assemble/disassemble a pocket knife, not every guy around knows that.

I've have eyewitnessed how people do unbelievable stupid things with knives, like using a full SE Police as an IcePick, and how the idiot who did it forever lost the movement in 3 out of 4 fingers of his right hand severed in his attempt. BTW, the guy is right handed. :rolleyes:

So, if this kind of things could happen, why would it be a surprise to find out that somebody doesn't know how to reassemble his 'piece of cake' pocket knife?
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Re: Not Everybody Knows

#31

Post by Fancier »

LC Kid wrote: BTW, the guy was right handed. :rolleyes:
Youchers! Fixed that for you, BTW.
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#32

Post by demoncase »

I'm 100% comfortable with the Warranty Void If User Disassembled.

Looking around my office and home, I'm struggling to think of a product I own where that isn't the case in the modern world*.....

There's a wide 'ability gradient' out there when it comes to strip and rebuild- Show me a business which says "Yeah, dude- you go right ahead and mash up the rebuild because you went at it like a chimp with a clawhammer and WE'LL absorb the cost" and I'll be amazed.

*We've got 250lb surface table at work that is a 1 solid lump of granite- literally, no moving parts to remove. The warranty states "Void if dissassembled". ;)
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#33

Post by Evil D »

Yeah, the computers you're all sitting in front of are security sealed, so that if you open them you have to break that seal and it voids your warranty.
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#34

Post by Laethageal »

A knife as nothing to do with a computer. It's made of mecanical part which can get dirty. Every ratchet wrench I own havef lifetime warranty, still I can open them up to clean them without voiding the warranty. Gear, spring and lockpin just like a folder. Opening them every 3-6 months to clean up so it doesn't break as much. I'm doing it to prolong the tool lifetime and avoid unexpected breaking of the tool. I am not asked to do it by the tool company, yet they are happy I tried keeping it clean so it wouldn't break. If a gear/pin/spring fail ( not wear down; break) it get exchanged with no trouble.
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#35

Post by Ankerson »

Blerv wrote:On the other side of the topic, I've never had to or wanted to take apart a Spyderco. I got a set of Allen wrenches with my Chris Reeves TiLock and probably won't take that apart either.

IMHO, with a little water and canned air I can keep a knife pretty dang clean. That and if I have to cut something that may get in the pivot I just get a bigger folder or make a number of shallow cuts. It's not out of fear but rather preemptive laziness. :p "Oh, I'd rather not mess with this later."

Over the past 40 years or so of using, testing knives etc I can count on 1 hand how many knives I have had to take apart to clean them....

Hot water, canned air and WD-40..... :)
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#36

Post by Evil D »

Laethageal wrote:A knife as nothing to do with a computer. It's made of mecanical part which can get dirty. Every ratchet wrench I own havef lifetime warranty, still I can open them up to clean them without voiding the warranty. Gear, spring and lockpin just like a folder. Opening them every 3-6 months to clean up so it doesn't break as much. I'm doing it to prolong the tool lifetime and avoid unexpected breaking of the tool. I am not asked to do it by the tool company, yet they are happy I tried keeping it clean so it wouldn't break. If a gear/pin/spring fail ( not wear down; break) it get exchanged with no trouble.

Having been a PC enthusiast for about 20 years now, I can tell you that probably the #1 reason for hardware failure is dirty components. If you were allowed to open your case and blow it out, you could avoid some of that failure. So, this is an argument FOR disassembly, but then it requires opening it up to clean, whereas a knife can be washed without disassembly.
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#37

Post by JNewell »

Ankerson wrote:
Blerv wrote:On the other side of the topic, I've never had to or wanted to take apart a Spyderco. I got a set of Allen wrenches with my Chris Reeves TiLock and probably won't take that apart either.

IMHO, with a little water and canned air I can keep a knife pretty dang clean. That and if I have to cut something that may get in the pivot I just get a bigger folder or make a number of shallow cuts. It's not out of fear but rather preemptive laziness. :p "Oh, I'd rather not mess with this later."

Over the past 40 years or so of using, testing knives etc I can count on 1 hand how many knives I have had to take apart to clean them....

Hot water, canned air and WD-40..... :)
Had to, as in needed to, yeah, almost none. Wanted to and did, that's different. ;)
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#38

Post by Laethageal »

Evil D wrote: Having been a PC enthusiast for about 20 years now, I can tell you that probably the #1 reason for hardware failure is dirty components. If you were allowed to open your case and blow it out, you could avoid some of that failure. So, this is an argument FOR disassembly, but then it requires opening it up to clean, whereas a knife can be washed without disassembly.
I have been into pc since MS Dos with some 13mhz brand new top of the line computer back then. Assembled my first pc at the age of 9 from parts me and my bro afforded at the local shop with our money(must have been like 1 years both of us asking for money at Christmas and birthday, plus the small weekly $ we received). Been here, done that. Still, I don't see how you can compare opening a computer for cleaning to opening a knife.

With a knife, you can mess up: strip bolt thread, lose a bolt/washer/spring, mess the small pin on FRN lockback folder and then what? Install 2 washer on the same side of the blade because you're a retard? Opening my K2 for deep cleaning shouldn't void my warranty unless **I** mess something up. If everything is alright and that let's say the RIL lock fail, why shouldn't it be under warranty (starting from the idea it's not an abuse issue)?

On a computer, or any other electronical item, a simple electrostatic spark can mess up the board. A small misshandling of your screw driver could inardvertenly mess yup a cap, a resistance, one of the small conductors, create a electrical short if the guys is dumb enough not to remove the power first and so many other possibilities. From this points, it's often pretty hard for anyone to figure out if the trouble, which can also be an interminent one, was user induced or come from a failure of one of the hardware/software. The main reason, in my mind, why pre-built computer and electronical devices come with tamper-evidence sticker or device is to prevent having to deal with sorting out this kind of question. It is considered that many of those who will buy a pre-built system don't have enough skills to handle electronical board.

On the other hand, separate parts are sold for enthusiast to build their own system and are covered by warranty even if handled. That's because those pieces are aimed at another market in which most people are considered knowledgeable and skillful enough to handle them without voiding the warranty.

Is every body trying themselves at building their own computer skillful enough? I don't think so, and easy as it sound neither is EVERY one skillful enough to open a knife. Most are, but some are not. Should that leaves me out of warranty for easing my cleaning process when a knife is dirty? I don't think so.

That's but my humble opinion on how a slight something is wrong with the warranty statement, but not on how the warranty is handled by Spyderco.
I know Spyderco warranty team and Sal are able to sort whether the failure was created by the user or not most of the time and that they try to be fair with the customer. I'm also pretty sure the customer service, in pretty much all aspect, is one of the best I ever dealt with.

I simply disagree with the point of view many out there have about how opening up a knife is never needed. I disagree that simply opening a folding knife should automatically void the warranty. Stop saying knife are like computer, it is irrelevant.
Reading such thing make me ponder about the poster intention. I guess that's fanboyism to try to prevent trouble for Spyderco with the few inapt people that would open their knife without knowing what they are doing. Still, it's pretty much out of context and this kind of thought need to be contested.

I don't make this a claim that we should be allowed to open a knife, mess something up and call it on warranty. Simply that opening it up without messing something, shouldn't remove our right to have a valid warranty.
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#39

Post by The Deacon »

Laethageal wrote:I don't make this a claim that we should be allowed to open a knife, mess something up and call it on warranty. Simply that opening it up without messing something, shouldn't remove our right to have a valid warranty.
Perhaps I'm being a fanboy, but aside from a broken blade where there's clear evidence of an internal void or inclusion at the break point, I can't honestly think of a single valid warranty issue that would only show up weeks or months after a knife was put into service and would not be clouded by prior disassembly and reassembly. I'd appreciate it if you would list a few. I'm also confident that, like the broken blade, Spyderco would resolve valid issues honorably, whether they called it a "replacement under warranty" or just a "good will replacement".
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Re: Warranty Void Question: Why no Disassembly Allowed?

#40

Post by sal »

Laethageal wrote:
Is every body trying themselves at building their own computer skillful enough? I don't think so, and easy as it sound neither is EVERY one skillful enough to open a knife. Most are, but some are not.
Our years of experience with this issue disagrees with your statement. We find that most are not. I also believe that most think they ar skillful enough but are not kowledgable enough to know when they screw up.

sal
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