Spyderco/Farid K2

[WorkingEdge]

How exciting. 3 out of the 4 who received knives giving good info!
Abrasion resistance by Jim.
Corrosion resistance by The Mastiff (in general use, not testing environment but good comparisons given).
Hardness by Mr. Wilson (and a teaser for more info to come).
I can't imagine any knife, let alone a production model receiving that much input (made possible by Sal's typical generosity for the sake of learning).
Even more glad to own one of these things.

[Ankerson]

Hi all, I have been off on a trip and just returned last night to find the K2 in the box. Have to get caught up but before I do any testing but wanted to offer some first impressions and some tech information.
Yep its a big knife, and has to be to fold that much blade into the handle.
I did a hardness test and mine is 63.5 average over 6 dings.
Thickness behind the edge is about .012 and a tad less on the belly
The grind finish is incredible, about the best you can do with a grade with this much carbide for a belt or machine finish.
Nice balance and is built tough as has already been covered. Simple functional design. Kind of what I would do if I was to make a folder.
It came sharp and I did some initial cutting on rope and it has a nice bite. I am going to re-sharpen for my tests since I want to do some rough comparisons to some of my own A11 blades.
Yes I am somewhat biased, I like the steel grade and also impressed with Spyderco to be brave enough to make a production knife with this steel grade. Anyhow more later as I do some more work. Phil

Hi Phil,

Looking forward to seeing what you think. :)

63-64 was what I was guessing based on what it did in my testing so your 63.5 confirmed it. :cool:

Jim

[Philo Beddoe]

True. I'd be lying if I said I thought Maxamet or Rex121 was intended for general knife use by non knife/steel nut.

Spoke with a few people from the Steel companies the other day and those steels were part of those conversations.....

Not for knife blades was the general outcome..... With a lot of laughing.......

They are great for what they were developed for, but other than that or those types of uses the A11 class of steels is much better suited for knife blades.

Same as I was talking about before awhile back and for the same reasons as I brought up, all they did was mirror what I already knew.... But I asked anyway.....

So with a A11 steel(10V)now available in a production knife it seems we've hit a plateau?

Hope to see it in some sprints like a Millie or Para 2 someday..

[Ankerson]

True. I'd be lying if I said I thought Maxamet or Rex121 was intended for general knife use by non knife/steel nut.

Spoke with a few people from the Steel companies the other day and those steels were part of those conversations.....

Not for knife blades was the general outcome..... With a lot of laughing.......

They are great for what they were developed for, but other than that or those types of uses the A11 class of steels is much better suited for knife blades.

Same as I was talking about before awhile back and for the same reasons as I brought up, all they did was mirror what I already knew.... But I asked anyway.....

So with a A11 steel(10V)now available in a production knife it seems we've hit a plateau?

Hope to see it in some sprints like a Millie or Para 2 someday..

For the most part yeah I suppose...

[faridknives]

I do believe with CPM®-10v after using it extensively it is the most wear resistant tool steel which still holds a hair popping sharpness for a long time, there are higher alloys (carbide) steels out there but they just won’t hold a hair popping sharpness, 10v is the highest alloy tool steel which I have used which still does this.
It has been only through testing of many different steels throughout time which has allowed me to understand and find out what different steels are capable of, also with different heat-treating formulas the same steel can behave differently. When me and Sal first started talking about the possibilities of putting my K2 in to production I had no doubt in my mind CPM®-10v was the best at a certain hardness, certain edge thickness and other specs of the K2 Sal and I talked about.
I wanted to choose a grade of steel which will offer extraordinary performance figures, I believe we have successfully together achieved that.
Farid

[Laethageal]

A question to you Farid:
Did you sharpen the K2 before performing your edge retention test you showed us?

I seriously wouldn't mind as I usually never use factory edge, but this time I tried to check how factory edge fare after some cardboard cutting and light wood whittling but am far from you result. It is the sharpess knife out of the box I received, but after about 150 feet of cardboard cutting and 5 minutes whiytling wood it wouldn't shave at all even under high pressure, nor slice any common type of paper (phonebook, printer, magazine). It's still an impressive knife, but knowing that you sharpened the knife first would reassure me that mine isn't performing poorly compared to your sample.

Anyway, I'll be sharpening it tomorrow and should see better result.

Edit:
Since I am ready to go sharpen it, I decided to see if the steel was chippy. I mean, better make some damage to the edge before then after the sharpening session! So I used it to trim some small branches, hacking and slashing through to shape the small decorative tree(I'm seriously not the type to know how to do this so it looks good after). I Cutted 40 to 50 branches in the range of 1/4 to 1/2 inch size with no visual damage to the edge. I feel safe saying the same light brushcraft type of use would have chipped my ZDP knife.

[faridknives]

A question to you Farid:
Did you sharpen the K2 before performing your edge retention test you showed us?

I seriously wouldn't mind as I usually never use factory edge, but this time I tried to check how factory edge fare after some cardboard cutting and light wood whittling but am far from you result. It is the sharpess knife out of the box I received, but after about 150 feet of cardboard cutting and 5 minutes whiytling wood it wouldn't shave at all even under high pressure, nor slice any common type of paper (phonebook, printer, magazine). It's still an impressive knife, but knowing that you sharpened the knife first would reassure me that mine isn't performing poorly compared to your sample.

Anyway, I'll be sharpening it tomorrow and should see better result.

Edit:
Since I am ready to go sharpen it, I decided to see if the steel was chippy. I mean, better make some damage to the edge before then after the sharpening session! So I used it to trim some small branches, hacking and slashing through to shape the small decorative tree(I'm seriously not the type to know how to do this so it looks good after). I Cutted 40 to 50 branches in the range of 1/4 to 1/2 inch size with no visual damage to the edge. I feel safe saying the same light brushcraft type of use would have chipped my ZDP knife.

I used the factory edge.

[Phil Wilson]

K2 test and evaluation continues
I re-sharpened with an EZ Lap diamond plate, 600 grit and at a slightly lower angle. This raised the sharpening line and the new thickness above the edge is now .018 average, up from the .012 earlier measured. There was not much burr but a few swipes on a leather strop cleaned it up.
I have modified my edge holding test procedure over the last few years and now cut with a sawing motion on ¾ inch rope. It takes 7 back and forth strokes to cut through the rope. Cutting is with the “belly” of the blade and an inch long stroke back and forth. Dulling is quicker with this method since I am limiting the cutting to a smaller blade area and ¾ instead of ½ or 5/8 rope. I check the edge by first slicing news print and then printer paper. I also monitor the edge “smoothing” by sliding my thumb on the blade edge up. By comparing the cutting space on the blade to an area that has not seen cutting I can feel the progress of the dulling. At about the point where the edge is losing some bite and hanging up on newsprint, but still cutting printer paper clean is the first measure point. Depending on the sharpening and geometry this is about 40-60 back and forth cuts for the A11 grades. I compared the K2 to one of my Vanadius 10 Bow Rivers with the same sharpening angle and sharpening method. Blade width and edge geometry are similar. The BR however is a couple of points harder. Both knives were cutting printer paper clean at 70 cuts. I did not go any further (leave the marathon cutting to Jim). This tells me that the K2 heat treat is right on and this knife will be an excellent performer in the field. I resharpened the K2 again with the diamond plate and it took 6 strokes per side to restore the edge back to the original bite on the rope.

CPM 10V is not hard to sharpen even at RC 63 as on this blade. It is just a matter of the right equipment and a thinner edge as on this knife.

I tested the edge durability by first whittling seasoned fir, aggressive slicing and twisting out of the cut and no damage was visible. I next did the same with Bocote a very hard wood and still no damage. I did get some visible chipping shaving some bronze brazing rod but this is no surprise and served to find the limits on this blade. CPM 10V is one of my go to steels for a hunter when edge holding is the criteria for use on large game and abrasive conditions like on wild pigs. The only niggly on this knife for me was that the underside of the handle could use a little more radius since after all the cutting I could feel some discomfort on the inside of my fingers. In summary this is a nicely balanced knife and is well built with a great steel and a spot on heat treat. Phil

[Laethageal]

Thanks for the review Phil!

[MacLaren]

Awesome. Many thanx Phil.

[Ankerson]

Nice Phil. :)

[Invective]

Has anyone else had a problem with their lanyard tube rattling on their K2? Mine had slight rattle that was annoying and tightening the screw didn't help so I just took it out. I don't use lanyards anyways so nothing lost, just wondering if anyone else has experienced this

[Laethageal]

No rattle on mine.

[Laethageal]

I re-sharpened with an EZ Lap diamond plate, 600 grit and at a slightly lower angle. This raised the sharpening line and the new thickness above the edge is now .018 average, up from the .012 earlier measured.

From your post, I understand that you measured behind the edge thickness at the sharpening line both time and now since it was further from the edge the reading weas higher even if the knife was thinner close to the edge?

[The Mastiff]

Philo Beddoe :

So with a A11 steel(10V)now available in a production knife it seems we've hit a plateau?

Jim:

For the most part yeah I suppose...

If not, this knife is not far from that plateau. For Production knives and even customs for a large portion of custom makers I'd say so.I'm still amazed a platform made in production quantities and not heat treated one at a time on special equipment worked out as well as it did.

Phil is talking about getting Vandis 10 up to near 65, and the foundry material supports it. It is a little bit tweaked from standard A11 http://www.uddeholm.com/files/PB_vanadis_10_english.pdf

As Farid stated they achieved what they set out to. I agree with him and admit I've never seen a higher performing production knife wear resistance wise. Only one S110V full hardness custom Phil Wilson made for me cut more rope but it was a much thinner edge and geometry. Not something for a production knife IMO, but for experienced users that slice and are careful with their equipment. Even the way it gets sharpened needs better equipment and experience with wear resistant steels at high hardness helps a lot. Likewise with another custom from Phil that is .005 and began slicing the wood cutting board the first time I was using it in the kitchen. :)

I'd say 10V was one of the very best ways to achieve the desired performance. And we found it to be good! :)

I'm not quite at the "where do we go from here?" stage yet. I'm still pretty amazed by the knife and what it can do. I wouldn't mind seeing some other knives with this steel at a heat treat and final hardness just like this one. If 10V can't be used then one of the other A11 or A11(mod) versions like Vandis 10 Extra would be fine. As far as stainless goes S110V is the most I'd go in that direction. At least from what I saw from S125V. That's where, like Maxmet, you will not gain performance due to lower strength requiring thicker edges and angles.

joe

[Phil Wilson]

Laethageal,
Yes the measure point got thicker as the angle was reduced and the edge thinned out a bit. A bit confusing the way I described it.
One attribute of the A11 and other higher carbide grades with the higher hardness is that the edge degrades from wear. However the wear is very small since the abrasion resistance is so high. Therefore it only takes a very little work on the stone to restore the edge. If you lose the bite in the field then just a few quick strokes on a diamond rod puts you back in business.
I stopped my cutting on this test at the point where the edge was hanging up on newsprint but the blade still had a lot of life left and still would be useful in the field. This is shown by Jim’s test where he went to where he considers the blade no longer cuts with a reasonable amount of force. I recently field dressed skinned and and quartered and boned out an antelope with the Vanadius 10 blade I used as the reference blade in this test. I brought it home unsharpened and found that it would easily cut printer paper but did want to catch a bit on news print. My thumb also told me is was starting to smooth out. I am always amazed how fast animal hair and hide can take the edge off a blade. A few strokes on a SC fine stone and it was restored back to cleanly cutting news print and shaves my thin arm hair.
Another fact to keep in mind is that with hardness in the range this blade is in that there is going to a small plastic range. This means the edge will bend and flex under load but if pushed beyond that elastic range and over stressed then it is likely to fail by some small chipping rather than rolling. This is not only CPM 10V but almost any grade that has a high carbide load and at this hardness. A very fine extreme hair whittling edge has no material to back it up so the ultimate strength (stress) with aggressive cutting can be reached with relatively low force. The factory edge geometry on the K2 is right balance of thinness for ease of cutting and strength. I proved this to myself with the aggressive whittling in my test here. It passed the hardwood test but the limit was exceeded on shaving the bronze (not softer brass) welding rod and some fine chipping was observed.
I know this is antidotal information and I don’t have any precise testing or graphs to show you but it may be good information for some. I have been working with CPM 10V for more than 15 years and offer my hard earned experience. Kind of have to take it for what it is worth and use it in conjunction with other testing and infor that is- or -will be offered here. Phil

[Laethageal]

You Sir, are an authority when it comes to knowledge of knife and steel. I didn't meant to say you were wrong but simply wanted to make sure I understood you right. Thanks for the clarification :)

[MacLaren]

Has anyone else had a problem with their lanyard tube rattling on their K2? Mine had slight rattle that was annoying and tightening the screw didn't help so I just took it out. I don't use lanyards anyways so nothing lost, just wondering if anyone else has experienced this

If I shake mine pretty hard, I can barely hear it rattling.

[Fancier]

Has anyone else had a problem with their lanyard tube rattling on their K2? Mine had slight rattle that was annoying and tightening the screw didn't help so I just took it out. I don't use lanyards anyways so nothing lost, just wondering if anyone else has experienced this

I think those tubes are seated with a drift punch. Seating the tube too firmly makes it harder to disassemble the knife, seated too loosely it rattles.

[Donut]

I picked mine up from the post office today and got to mess around with it for 30 minutes or so. My lock is a little sticky, on the lock face I have some marks. I'm not sure if it's titanium sticking to the steel or scuffs or what. Hopefully sharpie fixes it. Mine came sharp enough to slice receipt paper with no issues.

The corner of the lock face is rounded. I don't know why anyone would do this.

My lanyard doesn't move with shaking the knife.

If I am squeezing the handle while doing a slow, controlled open, it clicks but the lock doesn't engage enough... that I can push it closed, even when I push it pretty hard on the stop pin. It seems more likely to happen when I left hand open slow and controlled. I'm not sure what is causing it. I think it's flexing of the handle.

The corners of the handle could have more of a rounding, or a larger angled corner on them. They seem a little pointy.

It seems pretty nice, but might be a bit below the normal smoothness of all the rest of my Taichung framelocks.

It should make for a pretty nice user.