Spyderco/Farid K2

[paladin]

Farid, I'll be buying one of your K2 / Spy collabs.

Most of all, I like the way it looks. I especially enjoy the cutout for the lockbar. Plus, I think the K2 would look especially handsome with some tasteful jewelling & colored Will Moon dimples as seen here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/spyderco-sage-2 ... 1e91927991" target="_blank

Will is not taking on any new custom mods as he is busy with his own custom knife crafting...would you know anyone who could achieve similar results, Farid?...

You can PM me, or post it here if you feel warranted...BTW, get well soon!

[Phil Wilson]

Hi Farid, Congratulations on your collaboration. This is the first production folder, as far as I know with CPM 10V and is pretty unique in that regard. Cudos to you and Spyderco. It looks like a very clean functional design and will have a lot of uses not appreciated until it gets out there in the hands of multiple users. Some caution will be needed in wet humid climates since as we all know this grade (CPM 10V) will tend to stain and pit if neglected. It is simple, just a light coat of some oil of some kind is usually adequate. The design looks to be easy to clean and overall corrosion should not be a concern with reasonable care. IMO I have some history with CPM 10V. I thought I was one of the first to use it for a knife blade but Bob Loveless told me at a show some years ago that he tried it and would make all of his knives with it except his customers insisted on stainless. CPM 10v is basically A2 with added Vanadium for wear and made with the CPM process. It is the first grade Crucible applied the CPM process to. Now there are others in the A11 category like Boher-Uddeholm K294, K390, and Vanadius 10. CPM 10 is my standard for edge holding and I go back to it as a datum for my cutting tests. In answerer to some questions here I have not found it to be “chippy” even with a fine grind behind the edge and high hardness. This has to be qualified though by saying reasonable care must be used. If you have a .005 behind the edge and sharpen at something like 10DPD and get very aggressive on whittling hard wood or the like, yes you can make it chip. At RC 63 you are trading strength for ductility. This true of almost any steel used for a knife blade up at that hardness. Also a very fine polished edge created for whittling hair or the like is going to be very weak. This is just a matter of overstress. There is simply not enough material to support the edge and it fails as soon as some force is applied. These steels are are not good in impact resistance or in torque. Your knife is not intended for chopping so can’t see that as problem. Twisting out of the cut should also be avoided, especially if the edge is fine. I have done a lot of testing on this steel, get good feedback on the knives out there in use and others like Jim recently have given them a good work out and as long as the blade is used as intended then this knife will serve to be a great addition to the Spyderco line up I believe. I intend to get one as soon as they are available. Phil

[Laethageal]

I am not the type to misuse his knife. I don't mean that I will avoid using them hard or getting them dirty if need be, but that I do avoid twisting/side load on the edge as well as most uncontrolled cut that could result in the edge hitting something hard after the cut. I didnt find ZDP that bad as it in fact just kept cutting and cutting and cutting. But I know that I chipped a few times the edge on hard things when in a situation where I couldn't control the knife as I should have (try cutting a forgotten tie-wrap around a round metal piece when sitted on a shaking aluminum conductors at 100' in the air). If 10v is as resistant to chipping as zdp I do want to try that k2 knife as the design appeal to me. It could very well become my favorite. Time will tell me.
If you don't mind sending a 10v at the same time with the convex edge elmax, I'll take time to try them out. I use my knives everyday and new shape/steel will help me learn more.
By the way Farid, I for one see what you like in a design like this. Handle that will handle anything, steel that can cut through abrasive material without needing constant sharpening as long as you avoid impact and abusive twisting. Great design thst I can wait to have in my hand.

Now, we see another generous offer of Sal to try and make sure the product as the best they can. I wish we'll get to read the commentary of those lucky tester soon!

[michaelm466]

Well, I can contribute my experience with CPM-10V, I have 2 custom fixed blades in 10V, one is a 4.5" at about .15 at the spine FFG at 64HRC, the other is a 5" slightly thicker at about .17 also FFG and also run about 64HRC (both were Heat treated and Rockwell tested at Peters HT). From doing some reading/looking at charts before buying these, most sources said toughness is around that of hard D2, basically by giving up rust resistance (S110V) you get more toughness and a bit more edge holding.
Now because these were thinner, very hard and FFG knives. I was careful with them the first couple times I used them, however the last couple multi-day hikes I've done the 5" was the only knife I used, so it did some chopping, some light batoning, some very careful prying (was raining the whole time, so it was difficult to get to any dry wood, therefor had to baton and pry dry inner wood out of some large fallen trees). I had no visible edge damage, no chips or breakouts out of the edge. I now feel much more confident in the toughness of the steel, and after the last trip, was the first time I had to actually sharpen one of them, it was still quite a useable working edge just couldn't scrap shave any more. (about 5 trips all 1-3 days of use) most of my knives can handle about 3 trips, the M390 GS0-4.1 can maybe make it 4. Both have definitely formed a patina, and I got a little shallow rust from the last rainy trip, because it was put away wet a couple times, but that was easily removed once I got home.
I am very much looking forward to some 10V in a folder as I have loved it in fixed blades.
- Forgot to mention, the 10V blade wasn't oiled or coated on that trip as Mr. Wilson suggests above, will have to remember to do that next trip.

[Laethageal]

Thank you for your commentary Phil. It does tell me it'll be great for my use as I take in consideration the steel/grind/thickness I have in my hand when cutting.

I have to say, there is so many respectfull poster here that I feel lucky to be part of this great community.

[sal]

I've used mine quite a bit for wood, cardboard and food on cutting boards and plates. Haven't sharpened it yet. Just glassed the edge and see no issues. I also am aware of edges and pay atention.

I think I'll add some history here. Farid has been licensed to use our round hole trade-mark for more than a decade. Each year he would bring a design to me. Nice designs but in my opinion, highly overbuilt, way too heavy for our market. Each year I would tell him that I didn't think our customer base would respond to such a heavy knife. He is certainly persitent. A couple of years ago, he said he had another design to show me. I must admit that my thought was of 5 lbs. He showed me his K2 and I thought, "now we're getting there". I worked with Farid for a long time to get all of what he wanted and what we wanted in the design. I'm please to be able to make the model.

sal

[Cliff Stamp]

[...]

I don't think Farid was wrong for not answering, as many have stated, that is his option.

It would be very difficult to argue the position that people were compelled to answer any question asked - however I do think it is pretty easy to argue that a maker/manufacturer should be compelled to provide a description of a product they are selling/promoting and in fact legally in Canada you actually have to do far more than that in regards to promotion. You also have to be able to justify any/all performance claims for example, many countries are similar.

Look at it this way, move away from the maker/manufacturer for a second and just look at the ELU. If someone came in and criticized a product and someone asked them what was the basis for the criticism then should they have to answer? I would argue yes for almost the same reason which is nothing more than you should be able to justify claims or you should not make them, the reason for this is because if you argue otherwise you are promoting disinformation and allowing all kinds of fairly obvious problems.

However I will say this, Farid believes I have personally insulted him - in that case, the person being asked the question is perfectly reasonable in refusing to answer the question. Now you could debate if it was or wasn't true that an insult was made, but ultimately the person who has jurisdiction over that is the individual who feels they were insulted. It isn't like anyone else can make that determination, the only thing that can be said is the other individual could say there was no intent.

Now have I been critical of his knives, yes, I own one in 121 REX. I would argue what I have said about the knife is justified sure, but we also have to remember that not everyone over the internet speaks English as a native language and even when you do there are differences in what people mean by the same words. Locally where I live for example someone could say something like "... beat the face off ya" and what it means is something askin to "you are being mildly annoying" it isn't a threat of violence. However if you just walked into it and heard two of the local hillbillies taking you might think there was about to be some kind of clan war.

[MacLaren]

Kinda like you accusing me of hate talk Cliff.
Your really one to talk. At any rate it doesn't matter.
This ole hillbilly will shut up.

[faridknives]

Bottom line is this buy it or don't buy it.
I will not be contributing to this thread further. This should have never been allowed to get this far.

Good bye,
Farid

[Laethageal]

I might have missed something but I don't see how this have been "this far". Cliff asked a question saying that he couldn't find really what's the design for, but without being unrespectful. Your answer was rude but without being disrecpect too. I too asked question, but only because I wanted to know more on 10v as I never used it. Once again I felt there was rudeness in your answer, which wasn't deserved in my opinion because it wasn't criticizing your choice but wanting to know what I should expect from it. People asking to know more shouldn't bother you this much. Further post in the thread help me but sure that your knife is pretty much what I think it was and that 10v should be absolutely great for the way I intend to use such a knife. Maybe Cliff didn't get it, or simply isn't into this kind of knife. I'm sorry you're so much on the defensive, because I think your opinion and view on how/what and why you developped this design is a great addition to the thread and don't wish you to leave simply because some people have different point of view. If you know you have a different point of view than some that you don't want to explain, you don't have to answer if it's to avoid flaming.
Please just don't keep from answering the other questions about your knife (which aren't negative by the way) because of this.

I do value Cliff opinion but am seeing the oposite of him this time: this design is totally great from my point of view.
-The titanium handle will be a breeze to clean. Wipe it up and it's done. No need for toothbrush to clean like with FRN handle.
-Wanna clean the inside? No messing with backlock spring or anything complicated. Unscrew, wipe, screw it back.
-Titanium is light weight and durable
-Great edge length for almost any cutting chore
-Steel that will keep me away from sharpening bench (as long as I don't abuse it)

For me that's an all around winner.

[san-mai-usa]

I am new to this forum, but not to knife collecting, and will definitely be buying the K2.
The blade style has always appealed to me and I have the privilege of currently owning 3 K2's already, the SV-90, CPM-121 Rex and a stunning san-mai with lightning carbon fibre.
I'm also on the K2 D3 list and have a one off custom in the pipe line too.
The Spydie version will be winging it's way to me as soon as they are available. :)

Maurice.

[Cliff Stamp]

Kinda like you accusing me of hate talk Cliff.

Where is the reference to where I said you were using hate speech?

I have noted there there is often a bias in response towards promotion, it can even be noted here in this thread. Specifically it is argued that you can not criticize the knife without handling it, but you can praise it. That is a strong and completely obvious bias towards promotion. It isn't however hate speech which has both a legal and obvious meaning and it doesn't include promotion of a product.

[sal]

Hi San-Mai,

Welcome to our forum. Are you the same San-Mai that I know from anothr forum?

sal

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BTW, we all see farther when we take the high road.

[san-mai-usa]

Hi San-Mai,

Welcome to our forum. Are you the same San-Mai that I know from anothr forum?

sal

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BTW, we all see farther when we take the high road.

Hi Sal,
yes I am.
I'm afraid I have to add Spyderco to my addiction now.
Your fault for making such high quality knives…... :)
Keep them coming.

Regards,

Maurice.

[Cliff Stamp]

... seeing the oposite of him this time: this design is totally great from my point of view.
-The titanium handle will be a breeze to clean. Wipe it up and it's done. No need for toothbrush to clean like with FRN handle.
-Wanna clean the inside? No messing with backlock spring or anything complicated. Unscrew, wipe, screw it back.
-Titanium is light weight and durable
-Great edge length for almost any cutting chore
-Steel that will keep me away from sharpening bench (as long as I don't abuse it)

I don't have the opposite view of that, aside from I don't agree that the last sentence can be made in general and is restricted to specific materials cut in a specific manner with a specific edge geometry. In general I don't use metal handles but that is because I rarely wear gloves and metal is far too conductive and it is also far too abrasive/hot spot producing in general compared to other handle types. And the strength of the metal grips is rarely of benefit because the blade/pivot will break before even proper FRN handles goes. Thus you are paying for and getting what exactly?

But these are more of user preference issues, someone could like Titanium and hate FRN simply because they feel plastic is cheap, that is a very common criticism of FRN handles and thus trying to sell a high end knife with FRN is going to be very difficult regardless of any argument you could make performance wise. Similar with integrals, I get jamming issues frequently and even grip release issues, but these are again related to how I use the knife and the shape of my hands, you can't jump from that to a generalization of linear/integrals and many people are very fond of them for quite justified arguments.

The issue I have is the following question - Why use a stock thickness and handle/lock style which looks to be optimized for high loads / impacts and a steel which is the opposite? Now if you took something like the Superblue Delica and used 10V there I can see a congruent design for various applications, however if you put it in a wood craft blade I can't, if you put it in a machete I can't. I can't see the design congruency here either. That doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means I can't see it, hence the question. If I didn't think it was possible then I would not have asked the question.

[Laethageal]

Well I see things differently.

I use my knives in unclean environment. Cleaning FRN is a pain will all the groves in the pattern. Having to use a toothbrush and the tip of a knife to clean it takes much time.
On the other hand, you only need a clean towel to wipe the outside of the titanium handle clean.

As for the inside, cleaning let's say my superblue stretch is once again a pain. It involves disassembling the lock, cleaning the liners, and putting it back without leaving mark on that small plastic dot that always move with the pressure of the lock spring.
Titanium handle with RIL once again is a breeze to clean up and in no way can I mess it up from opening it many times so I shouldn't void the warranty on my knife.

I don't mind the handle being of steel, nor FRN, when I think of build quality. I know both holds well and shouldn't break from regular use.
FRN with all the engraving is easy to hold on even with slippery hands/gloves.
Titanium is usually harder to hold when the hands are wet with things like blood, or in my case oil/coppershield/penetrox . But Farid made it clear he designed the handle wide or tall enough(dunno which one apply, sorry for my english). This way it shouldn't slip in your hand.

For all the ease of cleaning and no hassle with the warranty... I love that design.

Plus, I love the blade shape.

[san-mai-usa]

... seeing the oposite of him this time: this design is totally great from my point of view.
-The titanium handle will be a breeze to clean. Wipe it up and it's done. No need for toothbrush to clean like with FRN handle.
-Wanna clean the inside? No messing with backlock spring or anything complicated. Unscrew, wipe, screw it back.
-Titanium is light weight and durable
-Great edge length for almost any cutting chore
-Steel that will keep me away from sharpening bench (as long as I don't abuse it)

I don't have the opposite view of that, aside from I don't agree that the last sentence can be made in general and is restricted to specific materials cut in a specific manner with a specific edge geometry. In general I don't use metal handles but that is because I rarely wear gloves and metal is far too conductive and it is also far too abrasive/hot spot producing in general compared to other handle types. And the strength of the metal grips is rarely of benefit because the blade/pivot will break before even proper FRN handles goes. Thus you are paying for and getting what exactly?

But these are more of user preference issues, someone could like Titanium and hate FRN simply because they feel plastic is cheap, that is a very common criticism of FRN handles and thus trying to sell a high end knife with FRN is going to be very difficult regardless of any argument you could make performance wise. Similar with integrals, I get jamming issues frequently and even grip release issues, but these are again related to how I use the knife and the shape of my hands, you can't jump from that to a generalization of linear/integrals and many people are very fond of them for quite justified arguments.

The issue I have is the following question - Why use a stock thickness and handle/lock style which looks to be optimized for high loads / impacts and a steel which is the opposite? Now if you took something like the Superblue Delica and used 10V there I can see a congruent design for various applications, however if you put it in a wood craft blade I can't, if you put it in a machete I can't. I can't see the design congruency here either. That doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means I can't see it, hence the question. If I didn't think it was possible then I would not have asked the question.

Sadly, unless you make your own knife, there will always be something about it that that is not quite to your liking.
I buy what I find appealing to my tastes, and many of them will not be users.
Does that mean I should not be able to buy good looking high end knives with exotic steels, simply because I may not need their extreme capabilities?
To me, this knife has what I want, the reliably and quality of Spyderco, the "metal head" loving side of me in the blade steel, and a great design by Farid. What's not to like?

[tvenuto]

This thread got a little bumpy here and there but I hope everyone isn't missing all the awesome info/insights contained within!

Also, did the idea of a 10V FRN Delica 4 just get floated?

[Chum]

I like the blade pattern, the full flat grind, and how there is little space between the guard and where the edge begins. As much as I love the Delica, there is a bit too much real estate between my finger and the edge. Nice design here with the K2.

On an aside, how thickly ground is the knife?

Blade is 3.5mm
Thanks

I believe Bill is asking how thin this knife is behind the edge. I'd like to know this as well.

[tvenuto]

To me, this knife has what I want, the reliably and quality of Spyderco, the "metal head" loving side of me in the blade steel, and a great design by Farid. What's not to like?

And this is a perfectly valid answer to the question! There's no shame in not absolutely functionally optimizing every design. Sal's anecdote on how this knife came to be sheds some light on the design as well. And some of us STILL thought the knife was too beefy!