What's Going on in the Japan Plant?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Jazz
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#21

Post by Jazz »

I just don't like how much blade they grind away in sharpening the new Delicas and Enduras. Looks like I've owned and used them for years.
- best wishes, Jazz.
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Cheddarnut
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#22

Post by Cheddarnut »

Fit and finish may be too subjective to agree upon. I judge spyderco knives by the best of what i have recieved from them, and the things that are important to me may be overlooked by everyone else. Gaps are empirical issues, but rounding off of the lapping of the flatness of the blade stock where the blade isnt sharpened isnt. What gets me is when cheap models get top mrks for finish (ukpk) and expensive models miss the details (cruwear millie) I think id like to work in th factory for a month to get a sense of how things operate to better understand the system. Are friday knives rushed, are there certain people with better finese. Theres ao mich speculation as to why things vary, ive always been surprised so much human labour is involved in production when it seems like machines would simplify things. I grew up fascinated by ball bearings and always assumed that kind of accuracy should be possible with knives. Again, if i had any idea what the actuallity of knife production was i could better appreciate the inconsistencies.
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Cheddarnut
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#23

Post by Cheddarnut »

And if i wasnt too drunk to spell y'all could understand ma werds gooder.
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razorsharp
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#24

Post by razorsharp »

since we are mentioning Japan defects one little pet peeve I have is when they do the final satin finish, sometimes the finish runs in 2 different direction.... looks a little bad. Actually I have had that from china and Golden too.... Taiwan is always flawless, even for me, Mr.Picky

My Caly 3.5 Superblue although not done in the same factory had a uneven primary grind which is a big reason for me to start to learn to regrind (fix it, plus make it better at the cost of a warranty) and it had oodles of bladeplay but I let that pass as a common lockback trait .
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#25

Post by cckw »

I have not observed any obvious change. Knives vary from one to the next within a run and I have not felt I was seeing any differences other then that. But if this thread makes a difference in attention to detail I'm glad you brought it up.
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#26

Post by Cujobob »

I've had my share of F&F issues from each country producing knives for the company (I haven't had one from Italy, though). Sometimes luck of the draw plays into it. I would also think that inexpensive lines (Delica, Endura, etc) are more likely to have issues as well as will any location with newer employees or that is short staffed. In China, they can likely throw out any bad knives since they're so cheap to produce there.
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#27

Post by DeathBySnooSnoo »

I've brought up a few times that I have seen issues with a couple of the recent Japanese made models. Not sure what is going on over there, if it is a slow decline in quality of the manufaturing or just a number of knives making it through inspection that shouldn't have. Either way, I have been avoiding knives from Japan even when they are models that I am really interested in.
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morgaj1
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#28

Post by morgaj1 »

Blerv wrote:Getting one or two knives not meeting your ideal specs doesn't mean a slip of F&F but rather a bad statistical dice toss from makers that finish knives on power belts. In order to see a global decrease in F&F quality you would have compare a large number over time, or even of the same model.

The only thing consistent with the Japanese makers is an increase in MRSP over years past and that's a problem with the economy.

In almost every case if someone isn't satisfied with a knife they can return it to Spyderco with a note explaining their lack of satisfaction. In a short amount of time either they will get an explanation or a new knife (likely the latter). Both the company and the makers in Japan are extremely proud of their products. They are also human which inherently means they can make mistakes.

PS: As a side-note, my understanding is grinding a perfect wharncliff is a very difficult task. While it shouldn't look like a hawkbill the possibility of having a slight curve is always there just like having a perfectly symmetrical grind is unlikely (human hands < robot hands)
Blerv, I wasn't claiming to have a statistical study on my hands. What I do have is real life examples of poor fit and finish. I understand that I can send a knife back to Spyderco for repair, as I've done it on 2 knives over the years. What I don't understand is defending poor quality. I feel that it is completely realistic to expect a knife that costs >$100 to have good fit/finish out of the box. I love Spyderco knives as much as the next guy, but also have the objectivity to realize that no company is perfect. The only way that Sal, et. al, will know about quality issues is to hear from the end user.
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#29

Post by billy blade »

timlara wrote:I, too, appreciate that we have the ability to speak candidly about Spyderco products here. As long as the feedback is given politely and in a constructive way (as I think morgaj1's was), Spyderco can benefit greatly. In an era where so many companies don't seem to care what their customers think (as long as products are moving), it is refreshing that Sal & Co take the time to not only listen to end-line-user feedback, but often actually act on it as well. It's a huge reason why I will give Spyderco my hard earned money again and again, even if I have an occasional problem or two.
Yes, it is great that we have a place where we have a place to voice our opinions both good and bad of our favorite product line. The members here are a terrific group. Plus we can directly interact with a owner and his team who listen to what we have to say both good and bad.
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#30

Post by mark jeneson »

The Taichung models are just incredible. Cheers to the folks that put those things together. I would agree with the Seki knives being of lesser F&F than Golden and Taichung. I've had two slightly off center Spydies. Both came from Japan. But i love them both and centering, as long as it's not rubbing, doesn't really bug me too much.
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#31

Post by ABX2011 »

I've observed the same thing - inconsistent quality from the Seki makers. I won't buy any more Spydercos made in Japan without first reading/watching many reviews. Even then, I would prefer to buy one made in Golden or Taichung.
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SolidState
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#32

Post by SolidState »

My last 4 knives from Moki have had issues with the edge bevel and tip. My kiwi had an incredibly blunt edge that wouldn't even slice paper, and a bit of hawk bill. I've noticed the same thing as you. With some of them, they were sprints, or I would have sent them back for spyderco to evaluate. Instead, I ended up doing complete regrinds.

I personally like that they left some more meat toward the tip so that I can sharpen without making it a leaf blade within the first few years. I saw that as a big plus.

In terms of the edge, I don't see it as a problem, as I reprofile virtually every knife I get as soon as they come in. When I look at spending $100 or more on a knife, I look at it as buying the perfect scaffold that I can then mod into exactly what I want. With my Kiwi, I ended up significantly rebeveling it to a hamaguri edge that is really thin. It is now a laser.
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bh49
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#33

Post by bh49 »

I didn't buy a lot of NIB Japanese made Spydies lately, but Calypso and Worker are flawless. Like in old time.
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Blerv
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#34

Post by Blerv »

morgaj1 wrote:Blerv, I wasn't claiming to have a statistical study on my hands. What I do have is real life examples of poor fit and finish. I understand that I can send a knife back to Spyderco for repair, as I've done it on 2 knives over the years. What I don't understand is defending poor quality. I feel that it is completely realistic to expect a knife that costs >$100 to have good fit/finish out of the box. I love Spyderco knives as much as the next guy, but also have the objectivity to realize that no company is perfect. The only way that Sal, et. al, will know about quality issues is to hear from the end user.
I'm not attempting to squelch anyone's voice nor am defending poor quality. Just saying the difference between having a few knives with less than expected levels of f&f is more an anecdotal example rather than a trend. For the same reason the last half dozen or so of my Japanese Spydies surely wouldn't be an example of climbing QC.

I bet Sal and co appreciate all the feedback. They alone know the percentage of returned knives from each maker and can chart their historical accuracy. My guess is Taichung is higher than most but based mainly on being a smaller facility, producing less knives per year, and less of those being sprints which tend to be less accurate due to learning curves.

Again, not trying to invalidate anyone's experience, just pointing out the difference in definitions which is irrelevant to a few frustrating examples. I certainly would send them in with feedback requesting a second look...that's another way QC can be maintained.

As a side note...was it just the Kiwi that failed your expectations? Second knife from Moki? Which models and how many examples? Just trying to clarify.
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anagarika
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#35

Post by anagarika »

My only Japan made is Endura SB. Other than asymmetrical SB-420J lines on both sides of blade which is only slight and expected, it's perfect (none of centering, lockup, bladeplay, etc. issue).
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morgaj1
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#36

Post by morgaj1 »

Blerv wrote:I'm not attempting to squelch anyone's voice nor am defending poor quality. Just saying the difference between having a few knives with less than expected levels of f&f is more an anecdotal example rather than a trend. For the same reason the last half dozen or so of my Japanese Spydies surely wouldn't be an example of climbing QC.

I bet Sal and co appreciate all the feedback. They alone know the percentage of returned knives from each maker and can chart their historical accuracy. My guess is Taichung is higher than most but based mainly on being a smaller facility, producing less knives per year, and less of those being sprints which tend to be less accurate due to learning curves.

Again, not trying to invalidate anyone's experience, just pointing out the difference in definitions which is irrelevant to a few frustrating examples. I certainly would send them in with feedback requesting a second look...that's another way QC can be maintained.

As a side note...was it just the Kiwi that failed your expectations? Second knife from Moki? Which models and how many examples? Just trying to clarify.
I'm following you. I've had the Kiwi4, a Delica, a Manbug and a Dragonfly recently that had what I would consider QC issues.
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Blerv
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#37

Post by Blerv »

morgaj1 wrote:I'm following you. I've had the Kiwi4, a Delica, a Manbug and a Dragonfly recently that had what I would consider QC issues.
Ah ok. The Kiwi isn't made by the people who did the Dragonfly or Manbug.

Sorry for your frustrations. Hope it's just bad luck and about to turn for the better.
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Cheddarnut
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#38

Post by Cheddarnut »

Note: my manbug zdp received lSt august is wonderfully finished, so it may be specific manufacturers that are suspect.
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wrdwrght
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#39

Post by wrdwrght »

anagarika wrote:My only Japan made is Endura SB. Other than asymmetrical SB-420J lines on both sides of blade which is only slight and expected, it's perfect (none of centering, lockup, bladeplay, etc. issue).
Hadn't occurred to me that the uneven and unequal reveal lines on my cladded Stretch SB sprint were a QC issue, but, if they are, I'll mention it here for Sal's benefit. Apart from these lines (suggesting a needed tweak of a robot or a more senior guy at the grinder?), my knife falls entirely within my tolerances.
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Blerv
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#40

Post by Blerv »

wrdwrght wrote:Hadn't occurred to me that the uneven and unequal reveal lines on my cladded Stretch SB sprint were a QC issue, but, if they are, I'll mention it here for Sal's benefit. Apart from these lines (suggesting a needed tweak of a robot or a more senior guy at the grinder?), my knife falls entirely within my tolerances.
It's not a QC issue. They have been uneven and wavy from Spyderco's first use of that technique about a decade ago. I'm not sure mechanical automation on that level would cure the issue but it's probably not even an option unless Ford or Toyota decide to start making pocket knives.
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