Natural stone/ artificial stone question.

[klug932000]

Hi guys,

I decided to get some whetstones. Last week I got In a 1000 3000 and 6000 grit artificial stones made by king. I was really happy with the results so I decided to order a Arkansas black translucent whetstone to finish it off. Well I got it today and it seems like I'm removing some if my gloss finish from the 6000. My understanding was this stone should compare to 12000 grit. I used water in the artificial and used oil on My real.

Any ideas?

Pat

[ginsuwarrior]

Well isn't japanese 6000 approx. 2-4 micron? It seems some arki black translucent can be in the 3 - 5? I think it can very, so perhaps your arki is not as fine as you think it is?

[klug932000]

They are claiming 1400 us grit and 12000 Asian. It's the last one on this page, http://www.naturalwhetstone.com/productssharpening3.htm . I would also like to mention the stone is not squared, wouldn't recommend buying from them.

[JD Spydo]

I think we're seeing the natural stones rapidly becoming obsolete unfortunately. The Arkansas Stones (novaculite) and the Belgium Razor stones (Coticules) were 2 of my favorites until I saw how low both of them ranked on the Moh's Hardness Scale. With the newer ceramic stones and the market getting big with diamond stones along with these newer cubic boron nitride stone you have to wonder why you would even desire one.

I still have an Arkansas "Blue-Black" stone that I got from a guy who used to work for one of the Arkansas Stone companies. He said that the really good grade novaculite had been mined out quite some time ago. I do find the Blue-Black Arkansas stone to be really good for final finishing on some of my blades. But with all the newer and harder stones coming down the pipeline I'll probably be more focused on those in the future. It's kind of sad in a way because it really was sort of a status symbol at one point to have a set of good grade Arkansas stones but their popularity is rapidly declining due to the much better quality of the newer stones on the market.

Now in a survival situation I would still use a natural stone if nothing else is available. But the newer/harder stuff is just outright better all the way around.

[Jax]

Maybe the Arkansas stone will get much smoother after it has been broken in.

[jackknifeh]

It seems to me that in addition to any grit or micron rating different stones leave different results because of the "type" stone they are. I have DMT diamond, Spyderco ceramic and Shapton glass water stones. On the Unified Grit Chart the Spyderco UF stone is estimated at 4500 grit, 3 micron. I prefer the Spyderco UF AFTER the Shapton glass 8k stone when I want a smooth (not toothy) edge. I'm always still learning as time goes on about all this stuff but right now I would not use the Shapton 8k stone after the Spyderco UF stone. I would use the UF AFTER the 8k. OTOH, another type stone I might place in a different progression order no matter what the grit rating from the manufacturer is. The only real important thing is the results on your edges. With time we find out what each stone does to the edge. Then we can determine when to use any of our stones no matter what grit, micron, etc. a stone is called. Spyderco's are only called medium, fine and UF. The grit of the Spyderco stones on the UGC are estimates by people with a lot of experience with different type stones I think. Spyderco doesnt' give a grit or micron rating for their stones. So what I'm getting at is it's hard to tell what kind of results you will get when trying to determine a grit or stone progression to use when using different type stones.

Once we have had and used our stones and know how they perform we are good to go. BUT, when deciding on what to buy to fill a gap or when we just want a much finer grit (or whatever) is can be hard to pick the right one when going by a group of numbers. Of course that's when these forums are great. People are eager to share their experiences to help others with questions. The folks on this forum are especially eager to help in my experience. They have helped me a WHOLE lot. They have helped me spend a WHOLE lot of money. :D Seriously though, I'd have spent a lot more if going by my inexperience and made more purchasing mistakes.

Final note on the stones I have. I can't get even close to a reflective or mirror finish with my DMT stones. The finest I have is extra-fine. The Spyderco ceramics will produce a much prettier finish if that's what I'm after. And the Shapton glass 8k creates a nice mirror finish to the naked eye. Of course the DMT extra-fine is only 1200 grit. But I don't think diamond stones could produce a smooth mirror finish as easily as good water stones. But people who have used the Atoma diamond stones may have a different opinion.

Sorry I got so long winded. It just seems hard to predict the results of different grits when the "type" stone is also making a difference. Based on my experience I wouldn't be as strong a believer in this theory except some folks with tons more experience than me have said it. In fact that's where I became aware of the issue. It's not like I figured it out all by myself.


Jack

[JD Spydo]

I'm happy in one sense but sort of sad in another that the natural sharpening/whetstones seem to be going the way of the buggy whip and ringer washer>> but in another way it's really cool that we are in an era where there is so much progress being made in the area of abrasives.

Now don't forget that a very good grade of Arkansas Stone (novaculite) is great for a final fiinish on many good blade steels and woodworking tools. Novaculite has a very nice polishing effect on steel like few other abrasives have. I'm sure that the natural stones won't be phased out entirely because they do have a lot of uses on older/softer metals.

With the advent of cubic boron nitride and GOD only knows what else is coming down the pipeline it really blows my mind to see so much progress in such a short time. Just in the last 15 to 20 years there has been a lot of improvements in many areas of metalwork. Even in the machine tool trade where I used to work they even have college level books on the subject of "deburring". Something us knife nuts could learn more about I'm sure.

Also I think we are going to see advances in diamond benchstones and sharpening devices as well. There already has been improvements in that area in the past 20 years or so.