Mule Team flipping

[hunterseeker5]

@dancer

I understand limited production capacity, which certainly may be an issue, and it is why announcing that the mules are not limited would be a no-cost way to reduce their value to prospectors.

That said, these mules go for a fair bit of money even new. A fixed blade in a production run of over 500 units with no sheath, no handle, just a cardboard sleeve sold direct from the Manufacturer (no dealer markup) in a box for 80-90$?

The first mule was 52100 and was 79.95$ http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=283

The latest mule was S110v (don't we know it) and was 89.95$ http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=65

A quick sampling of the blades in between yielded similar prices.

Quick comparison, you can pick up a Spyderco Endura in ZDP-189 brand spanking new for about that or less through one of their dealers. I'm not suggesting it is dirty for Spyderco to be making a profit on these, not in the least, but if "at cost" for one of these where "Product runs are limited to 600 – 1000 pieces of each steel type" (ref. TazKristi) Spyderco would have to have some MAJOR cost issues in their production chain. Remember, when selling to dealers, Spyderco probably gets less than that for a Paramilitary2 for example. Yeah, while there is the occasional screwup (like the botched HT on MT12), I'm guessing Spyderco does just fine selling these blades.

[Fancier]

Who would be up for a blind mule pre-sale? When the mules are available SFO takes orders without disclosing the steel. Charge some standard rate like $110 regardless of the steel. After a week or so of preorders (about how long it took my mule to ship anyway) they start shipping. No walk ins at SFO allowed for that week.
If you really want every mule regardless of the steel you'll buy at some point during that week. If you care only about a particular steel, you can place an order after the true collectors and enthusiasts have theirs in hand and everybody finds out the steel. It should slow down the "gold rush" sales at zero hour and make the speculators think twice about buying a complete unknown before the target market has had a chance to buy one. If the mules still sell out during that week (during which no one can flip what they don't possess and can't describe) then we know that it is the program's popularity driving demand, not any individual steel choice.
I did a quick survey of sold items under "Spyderco Mule" on the big auction site and found 110 items had sold using those description keywords since last November for a maximum amount of $230 with a more typical amount being $150. This includes all scales, sheaths, boxes, and also actual mule knives since I purposely left my search pretty broad. I do not think that secondary sales were an enormous problem in the past quarter.
A lot of upset feelings seem to occur whenever the general public gets access to something that appears to be a forum exclusive, but I do not think that there is any truly effective way to prevent folks from reselling something they bought and paid for. Not very many of us would want to rent or lease a knife, and not very many companies would want to offer them on those terms.

[dancer]

Double post...

[dancer]

I've already made my suggestion to get mules into the hands of those that want to use it. My thoughts are that prepaying a long time in advance and having a longer open window for confirming the purchase will help this. if we had between March and June to pay $100 deposit for a k294 or 4V that would be delivered 2016, those that really wanted it would have ample time and no reason to complain. If the actual cost of production was higher than expected, we could just top up the difference.

Regarding flippers:
It seems to me that the market is there because there are people willing to pay that much and they have no alternative.
So let's give them one...
If Spyderco can hold back the last 10mules (or produce 10 extra mules) and sell them for say $150, then those that missed out can get mules and the difference between msrp and $150 can be given to the charity that Sal chooses.

If a flipper has to pay 2 years in advance to get the knife, then wait til SFO runs out before he can off load his mules, it becomes a much poorer investment...

[Sharktooth]

Don't advertise the mules except to active forum users and longtime users via personal email, or PM. Include a link to the mule order page in the email/PM specific to the user that expires when order is placed, so it cannot be reused.

[Tally-ho]

I don't think that the Mule Team program was made to be forum exclusive.
Enough with exclusive knives, there is tons of high end steels PM2 hard or impossible to purchase at a decent price for international buyers !

Filppers have probably an arsenal of solutions to register 10 accounts on the forum or to find an easy way to bypass any basic rules proposed here.

Is it so hard for anyone to ask to his wife, to a family member, to a friend, to a forum mate to order a mule team at 10:00 MDT for himself if he know in advance that he will not be able to order it ?
If a flipper can do it, anyone who really want one to test it and keep it can do the same. The quicker an MT sell out fast, the less time flippers has the time to buy multiples pairs.

Instead of trying to find any kind of solutions, try this first. It is the most simple and probably the most effective, even if there will always be people that will miss one because an high end steel was sold out fast.

The point is to be ready at 10:00 MDT or to learn how to live with a small frustration.

My 0.2 euros.

[Blerv]

Sorry you have to deal with this Sal.

While these aren't designed with profit in mind, I think with a small adjustment in price and a number of them being made they will certainly pencil out over time while dissuading the scalpers.

[spyder moist]

could these be sold through SFO only as a bonus only purchase.
for example you buy a new knife for full MSRP ( with a minimum value, say a FRN vg-10 delica) and you get the option to buy a mule as an extra?
also do you have to login and register to buy from the SFO online store, or could I buy an item as a guest shopper?

[Donut]

I was thinking phone orders only might help the discourage the internet jockeys, but that would be more work on the SFO's part.

[boyleman]

The secondary market is an indication of how successful the Mule Team project has become. I have purchased several Mule Team blades on the secondary market, and I was happy to get them. It was the Mule Team knives which brought me to the Spyderco web site and this forum. I have purchased additional Spyderco products as a result. How would you stop people from purchasing a product at whatever price they feel is fair? Hard to do. Even if the knives are limited to a single knife per order there will be a secondary market. There will always be a secondary market for desired objects. Maybe this isn't broken. I know the Mule Team project has introduced Spyderco to more than a few of my friends as new customers. My knowledge of knife steels and sharpening technique has been vastly improved by reading this forum. I hope the project continues. This is a great way to generate more interest and education on knife steels in the purchasing public. Bravo Sal!

[gaj999]

The first mule was 52100 and was 79.95$

That may be what the catalog says, but I clearly remember paying $39.95 and being thrilled with the howling deal I was getting. Even after all these fancy steels, I still love that knife.

Gordon

[cckw]

Perhaps the best idea is only sell Mules to people who have bought every single mule since #6.

[boonedawg]

That's not really fair to someone like me that has just found them. Snobish type attitudes lose more customers than gain.

[JNewell]

Perhaps the best idea is only sell Mules to people who have bought every single mule since #6.

:D Maybe we should dial that back to MT-01? (top of the very old picture below) (Totally kidding...)

[JNewell]

Perhaps the best idea is only sell Mules to people who have bought every single mule since #6.

That's not really fair to someone like me that has just found them. Snobish type attitudes lose more customers than gain.

I think that was humor. :)

[Philo Beddoe]

Perhaps the best idea is only sell Mules to people who have bought every single mule since #6.

Perhaps the best idea is only sell Mules to people that became forum members prior to January 2010..

[Tdog]

I don't think that the Mule Team program was made to be forum exclusive.
Enough with exclusive knives, there is tons of high end steels PM2 hard or impossible to purchase at a decent price for international buyers !

Filppers have probably an arsenal of solutions to register 10 accounts on the forum or to find an easy way to bypass any basic rules proposed here.

Is it so hard for anyone to ask to his wife, to a family member, to a friend, to a forum mate to order a mule team at 10:00 MDT for himself if he know in advance that he will not be able to order it ?
If a flipper can do it, anyone who really want one to test it and keep it can do the same. The quicker an MT sell out fast, the less time flippers has the time to buy multiples pairs.

Instead of trying to find any kind of solutions, try this first. It is the most simple and probably the most effective, even if there will always be people that will miss one because an high end steel was sold out fast.

The point is to be ready at 10:00 MDT or to learn how to live with a small frustration.

My 0.2 euros.

Very good observation, these were advertised in a sticky by TazKristi 12 days prior to release. In the same thread they became available again for a couple of days. There rarely are enough high demand blades by any maker to fill all the orders.

[ManixFan]

Perhaps have a lifetime limit of 10 MT version purchases since all of the long time members already have their share.
That would only be fair wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

P.S. That was also an attempt at humour.....with "u". There is no such thing as Canadian "humor" up here - except with those who don't know how to spell in the Canadian language. :D

BTW - picked up my Mules from the post office on the way home from work tonight. Took a pic of them alongside my current three favourite Spyderco's (no "favorites" on this side of the border) the South Fork, S90V Manix 2 XL & Blue CF Domino only to learn that I am limited to 100kb files size upload. Lots of nice pics in these forums......how were they uploaded? Do you get more upload space with higher levels of forum participation?

Anyways........I would just like to thank the Spyderco crew in their vigilance in monitoring this Mule release since I was informed that the only reason that these mules were available after the release date was because people had placed multiple orders of the maximum 2 limit by calling in as well as ordering online and that after disallowing these sales that I was at the right spot in line at that time to place an order. Had Spyderco not cared to try to inject a little fairness into the process I would currently be without my mules. S110V was an awesome introduction to the MT program for me!

[ManixFan]

Ooooops....before any of you down south of the border get offended by my "P.S.", perhaps I should have explained that the Canadian language often has different spelling of words than the American language

[JNewell]

Perhaps have a lifetime limit of 10 MT version purchases since all of the long time members already have their share.
That would only be fair wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

P.S. That was also an attempt at humour.....with "u". There is no such thing as Canadian "humor" up here - except with those who don't know how to spell in the Canadian language. :D

BTW - picked up my Mules from the post office on the way home from work tonight. Took a pic of them alongside my current three favourite Spyderco's (no "favorites" on this side of the border) the South Fork, S90V Manix 2 XL & Blue CF Domino only to learn that I am limited to 100kb files size upload. Lots of nice pics in these forums......how were they uploaded? Do you get more upload space with higher levels of forum participation?

Anyways........I would just like to thank the Spyderco crew in their vigilance in monitoring this Mule release since I was informed that the only reason that these mules were available after the release date was because people had placed multiple orders of the maximum 2 limit by calling in as well as ordering online and that after disallowing these sales that I was at the right spot in line at that time to place an order. Had Spyderco not cared to try to inject a little fairness into the process I would currently be without my mules. S110V was an awesome introduction to the MT program for me!

En Francais, eh?