Opinions of super blue blade steel please

[The Mastiff]

Next Question.

Have Titanium carbides ever been used in steel or is this impossible due to temps or other reasons. I have seen steels that claimed to have some titanium but it was in an ad ( called D9 steel) and there was no way to verify the truth of the claim, what the steel is used for ( other than County comm's mini keychain type tools.. http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/d9.shtml

Joe

[Cliff Stamp]

have you ever researched liquid fluoride thorium reactors?

On a basic level as in the physics, however the largest issues with such are never really the underlying science but the actual implementation on a practical level. In order to understand this even at a basic level, the problems that would have to be over come, you would need to talk to an engineer who worked exactly in that field and was familiar with the exact how of the processes are carried out. The basic availability of the salt is an attraction though as estimates of volumes are in the thousands of years of utility.

[Mike Blue]

...Have Titanium carbides ever been used in steel or is this impossible due to temps or other reasons. ... Joe

The short answer is yes. Titanium is a great carbide former and does pretty much what vanadium does, pins the carbides etc. Right next to vanadium on the periodic table. It tends to not stay in the mix due to an affinity for oxygen where it would be more commonly used as a killing agent. Aluminium is cheaper.

[Cliff Stamp]

The short answer is yes.

There are some extreme Titanium Carbide alloys, and by extreme I mean far more so than S110V for example in carbide volume. They can have :

-~50% titanium carbide
-~70 HRC

Ref : http://reade.com/Products/Alloys/ferrit ... k-lap.html

I know a knife maker who has been experimenting with them since last year, no blades released yet.

I would have expected Farid to have tried these already, he tends to favor ultra-high carbide steels as his norm. He doesn't hesitate to use even alloys like 121-REX.

[Mike Blue]

Cliff: there are some metallurgical samplings of old (Koto era) Japanese swords that are upwards of 9% titanium. Because of it's efficiency as a deoxidizer during smelting it is surprising to see that it is retained in the smelt, considering their smelting methods. I've enjoyed attempting to use ferrotitanium "salting" the smelts I've done, but I won't make any great claims for other than a cleaner killed smelt. As I suggested aluminum is more practical and less expensive for what I'm attempting to do with plain carbon steels.

As to the high alloy mixes...that's another set of projects my lifetime will not likely see. I still have too much to want to learn about iron carbides. There were some Boker blades with titanium-ceramic alloys that seemed to have some potential for a while but I don't know how popular or effective they were over time for knife blades.

[The Mastiff]

Thanks Mike and Cliff. I've wondered about the Ti carbides and alloys featuring them due to the wear resistance and heat tolerances for items like blisks in hot sections of turbines and such. I know they have been using the same materials as before but shaping them different including holes for better cooling. I watched a show about how they were made. Expensive as each blisk not only has to be made but put through some very expensive testing before packing up to ship. Hotter temps = more power per unit.

There were some Boker blades with titanium-ceramic alloys that seemed to have some potential for a while but I don't know how popular or effective they were over time for knife blades.

Had one, may still have it. I never bonded with it as it came pretty dull and needed to be shipped back for sharpening. The one I'm thinking of actually used silver in the recipe.

Joe

[WorkingEdge]

Love these steel treads. Since The Mastiff is here now, how should superblue compare to cruwear. That has been the one in my ability to take the keenest edge.

[Cliff Stamp]

As to the high alloy mixes...that's another set of projects my lifetime will not likely see.

I have a couple of them "on order" to use a loose term, but I don't expect to see them for awhile. To be frank I am not interested in them for performance as such, I am just curious about them, in particular how they sharpen and working edge angles/finishes. I have a 121 REX blade coming for the same reason, I want to know does it sharpen more like a ceramic blade or more like a steel one. That is pretty much on the limit of what you can stop calling steels with a meaningful label.

Here is an interesting alloy :

-take AEB-L as a base (performance not alloy specific)

-replace the small amount of Cr carbides with Nb or Vanadium

-increase the free chromium by 1.5% to make it dishwasher safe

-raise the dissolved carbon/nitrogen to increase the martensite hardness to 67/68 HRC

I think that would be an interesting knife steel but it would be very niche specific.

[The Mastiff]

Love these steel treads. Since The Mastiff is here now, how should superblue compare to cruwear. That has been the one in my ability to take the keenest edge.

Working edge, IMO they aren't really very close performance wise as it would seem just by looking at them composition wise. Super blue is more designed for very sharp knives and isn't a utility type tool steel. The higher carbon content is one of the things that makes Super blue a bit less tough. Cruwear also has a very high amount of silicon for toughness, plus the lower carbon so it is going to be a tougher steel, but have less edge stability ( not less wear resistance) than the extremely clean Hitachi Super blue. S.B. is a dedicated cutlery steel that is at home in thin edged, very sharp knife. Cruwear is a tool steel able to be used for everything from blades to Dies and punches.

I do like them both in the cutlery application. It's very difficult for me to pick a favorite steel but these both are in my top 5 or top 10 certainly.

[WorkingEdge]

Thanks Mastiff. Superblue does sound intriguing. Was ZDP of similar intent, meaning for high sharpness?

[The Mastiff]

Thanks Mastiff. Superblue does sound intriguing. Was ZDP of similar intent, meaning for high sharpness?

ZDP was one of the first true "super steels" and wouldn't work very well without modern powder steel making methods. It's designed for high hardness, high wear, and sharp edges. That is sharp for something with so many carbides. It's amazing for it's composition, but will never have the ability to take the edges of lower carbide steels designed for cutlery. Hitachi's White and blue steels for example. They on the other hand will never come close to ZDP's wear resistance.

Joe

[3rdGenRigger]

That makes sense...I've definitely learned a lot over the last few months perusal of this forum. How would the average grain size of H1 compare to say VG-10/S30V/SB?

[WorkingEdge]

Always appreciate your input, Mastiff. I'm looking forward to some Superblue now.
I am curious as to what angles you have your Cruwear, ZDP, and Superblue at.

[The Mastiff]

That makes sense...I've definitely learned a lot over the last few months perusal of this forum. How would the average grain size of H1 compare to say VG-10/S30V/SB?

Hopefully Cliff or Sal will take that question. It's above my pay grade. :)

I am curious as to what angles you have your Cruwear, ZDP, and Superblue at.

I have experimented with ZDP, VG10 , CPM M4, O-1 and Super Blue at lower edges. About 20 degrees inclusive is the lowest I'll go and that's for light use high sharpness only. I don't need that kind of knife that much and once I am satisfied playing around and "know" the steel/knife combo I stop trying different angles and grits.

My user knives are all set around 35 degrees inclusive and from 400 grit up too 1000 ( Super blue and ZDP) Steels like D2, Cruwear, BG42, 154cm, S30V, and others with decent carbides ( not S90V class though) gets a fairly low grit finish as I like the bite they give. S90V and others I give a higher grit ( 1000) as they don't need any help and I don't want it too rough as I feel that may help carbide tear out. Super blue, O-1, 52100, and others that corrode easily get higher finishes as I feel I lose sharpness in storage ( with all knives to an extent) to a greater extent than more stainless steels and higher finishes seem to either slow this effect or maybe just make it less noticeable.

These are probably more akin to superstition than science but I'm happy with my routines and habits. They work in my mind anyway. :)

Joe

[WorkingEdge]

Mastiff - Your superstitions are worth a lot more than all the science I know about knives and steels. I think the most magnificent thing about these forums is the knowledge and experiences people are willing to share. :)

Echoing the sentiment of many, what a great time to be a "steel junkie"

[arty]

Can anyone speak to the comment made by an earlier poster that super blue adds a taste to food? I know that lots of Japanese kitchen knives are made from laminated Super Blue. I never noticed any added flavor from my very old French Sabatier knives in carbon steel, but the carbon content is lower in them.

[Trevitrace]

The two Spyderco offerings I have in SB seem to impart less metallic taste the more evenly the patina develops. Not sure if it's in my head or if it acts as a sort of barrier.

[xceptnl]

The two Spyderco offerings I have in SB seem to impart less metallic taste the more evenly the patina develops. Not sure if it's in my head or if it acts as a sort of barrier.

This is my experience to the letter. The more you use it, the less you can detect any taste change or aroma.

[xceptnl]

.....deleted double post......

[chuck_roxas45]

Mastiff - Your superstitions are worth a lot more than all the science I know about knives and steels. I think the most magnificent thing about these forums is the knowledge and experiences people are willing to share. :)

Echoing the sentiment of many, what a great time to be a "steel junkie"

And some pseudoscience too. :D